Is this employer request unreasonable?
Discussion
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
At that point as a dad I'd be off down to the shop and having it out with this gorgon, calmly, in front of witnesses. Your daughter is too young to deal with this.
She's 18. An adult.Do you think the OP should take her lunch down in a Barbie lunchbox too?
Part of growing up is learning how to resolve difficult situations. The OP should advise and nothing more.
Digger said:
How old is this work colleague?
Does it matter? The issue here is they are all adults and that one adult is asking another to do something outside of their contract, pick up the colleague. All that needs to happen now after what has happened is to monitor the situation. How often is she asked to pick up other people. If it becomes a regular thing then the accepted Avenue after speaking to the manager and getting nowhere is to submit a grievance.
craigjm said:
Digger said:
How old is this work colleague?
Does it matter? The issue here is they are all adults and that one adult is asking another to do something outside of their contract, pick up the colleague. All that needs to happen now after what has happened is to monitor the situation. How often is she asked to pick up other people. If it becomes a regular thing then the accepted Avenue after speaking to the manager and getting nowhere is to submit a grievance.
This is why people with experience and knowledge of employment law need to step into the situation.
All these PHers saying an 18 year old should be able to sort it out probably wouldn't let their 18 year old fly a 747 or perform brain surgery unattended. This is no different.
Hammersia said:
craigjm said:
Digger said:
How old is this work colleague?
Does it matter? The issue here is they are all adults and that one adult is asking another to do something outside of their contract, pick up the colleague. All that needs to happen now after what has happened is to monitor the situation. How often is she asked to pick up other people. If it becomes a regular thing then the accepted Avenue after speaking to the manager and getting nowhere is to submit a grievance.
This is why people with experience and knowledge of employment law need to step into the situation.
All these PHers saying an 18 year old should be able to sort it out probably wouldn't let their 18 year old fly a 747 or perform brain surgery unattended. This is no different.
Whatever we think of an 18yo in the eyes of work and the law they are an adult. Yes we should advise them but one certainly should not go down there and try and sort things out on her behalf. It’s totally inappropriate and what 18yo would want dad wading in anyway?!
craigjm said:
Why thank you. I am an ex HR director so I am sure in what I say. It only becomes custom and practice if “the regular thing” is accepted. My advice was to monitor the situation and if she keeps being asked and the manager won’t back down then that is what the grievance procedure is there for and this is her avenue. She should refuse and then instigate the grievance. She will be able to show she has tried to resolve it informally.
Once knowing about it as HR, wouldn't you also be ensuring that the employee can evidence that they have the right class of insurance for the work they are being asked to perform that is outside of the norm?Hammersia said:
All these PHers saying an 18 year old should be able to sort it out probably wouldn't let their 18 year old fly a 747 or perform brain surgery unattended. This is no different.
Well it's very different actually because you're comparing apples with wheelbarrows. Dealing with a (relatively) minor work matter is clearly different to something requiring years of training which an 18 year old clearly won't have.Can you imagine being 18 and Daddy turns up to have it out with your boss over a dispute? I'd be absolutely mortified.
Would you stand next to her whilst she voted, giving advice? Would you sit in the back seat whilst she takes her driving test?
Actually, you probably would.......
craigjm said:
Hammersia said:
craigjm said:
Digger said:
How old is this work colleague?
Does it matter? The issue here is they are all adults and that one adult is asking another to do something outside of their contract, pick up the colleague. All that needs to happen now after what has happened is to monitor the situation. How often is she asked to pick up other people. If it becomes a regular thing then the accepted Avenue after speaking to the manager and getting nowhere is to submit a grievance.
This is why people with experience and knowledge of employment law need to step into the situation.
All these PHers saying an 18 year old should be able to sort it out probably wouldn't let their 18 year old fly a 747 or perform brain surgery unattended. This is no different.
Whatever we think of an 18yo in the eyes of work and the law they are an adult. Yes we should advise them but one certainly should not go down there and try and sort things out on her behalf. It’s totally inappropriate and what 18yo would want dad wading in anyway?!
The picking up of random men is clearly already becoming a regular thing. And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
vaud said:
craigjm said:
Why thank you. I am an ex HR director so I am sure in what I say. It only becomes custom and practice if “the regular thing” is accepted. My advice was to monitor the situation and if she keeps being asked and the manager won’t back down then that is what the grievance procedure is there for and this is her avenue. She should refuse and then instigate the grievance. She will be able to show she has tried to resolve it informally.
Once knowing about it as HR, wouldn't you also be ensuring that the employee can evidence that they have the right class of insurance for the work they are being asked to perform that is outside of the norm?Taking into account what I said earlier about who the company is, they could be working for a Vodafone franchise and my experience with franchises is that they are not so clued on what they should be doing HR wise and that often filters down to the managers.
Any company worth their salt will have a mobility policy that includes all the necessary document presentation, what people can claim and how they deal with people when they get points, banned etc and clearly stipulate what insurance is required
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
Hammersia said:
I'm sure your credentials are impeccable. However I've know many HR directors who have completely misplaced confidence in their abilities and knowledge.
The picking up of random men is clearly already becoming a regular thing. And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
Unless I missed something she was asked to and eventually did do it once? The picking up of random men is clearly already becoming a regular thing. And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
I didn’t say it wasn’t appropriate to raise safeguarding issues I said that it was in appropriate to go down there and act all I’m the big daddy infront of the manager. We have all seen those kind of activities end up with someone, usually the dad, being carted off down the Nick and that is not going to help anyone.
So many of these threads end up being responded to with suggestions to escalate the situation to nuclear immediately and that is rarely helpful just like the suggestions to look for another job also.
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
Hammersia said:
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
craigjm said:
Hammersia said:
I'm sure your credentials are impeccable. However I've know many HR directors who have completely misplaced confidence in their abilities and knowledge.
The picking up of random men is clearly already becoming a regular thing. And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
Unless I missed something she was asked to and eventually did do it once? The picking up of random men is clearly already becoming a regular thing. And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
I didn’t say it wasn’t appropriate to raise safeguarding issues I said that it was in appropriate to go down there and act all I’m the big daddy infront of the manager. We have all seen those kind of activities end up with someone, usually the dad, being carted off down the Nick and that is not going to help anyone.
So many of these threads end up being responded to with suggestions to escalate the situation to nuclear immediately and that is rarely helpful just like the suggestions to look for another job also.
I have made no such suggestion to storm in to the manager and I don't recall anyone else doing so either.
ZedLeg said:
Hammersia said:
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
Hammersia said:
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
She is the appropriate adult. Unless the OP says otherwise, she's a perfectly capable adult, just as my wife is.
The mediator/chaperone that should step in is the HR department of the company. Not parents.
If one of my staff's Dad turned up to discuss an employment situation, I wouldn't let him in the front door.
Parents/Guardians are there for minors and those not capable as adults. Neither of which applies here IINM.
pocketspring said:
ZedLeg said:
Hammersia said:
Muzzer79 said:
Hammersia said:
And of course it is not inappropriate for a parent to raise safeguarding issues of a lone woman. It could hardly be more appropriate.
She. Is. Not. A. Child.If my wife's (who is definitely older than 18) employer asked her to collect someone on the way to work, do you think her Mum and Dad should call her manager to deal with it?
Companies have guidelines for how these matters are handled for a reason, follow the procedure.
said:
What?
She is the appropriate adult. Unless the OP says otherwise, she's a perfectly capable adult, just as my wife is.
The mediator/chaperone that should step in is the HR department of the company. Not parents.
If one of my staff's Dad turned up to discuss an employment situation, I wouldn't let him in the front door.
Parents/Guardians are there for minors and those not capable as adults. Neither of which applies here IINM.
But you haven't broken employment law as this manager has done. So that's irrelevant. She is the appropriate adult. Unless the OP says otherwise, she's a perfectly capable adult, just as my wife is.
The mediator/chaperone that should step in is the HR department of the company. Not parents.
If one of my staff's Dad turned up to discuss an employment situation, I wouldn't let him in the front door.
Parents/Guardians are there for minors and those not capable as adults. Neither of which applies here IINM.
Edited by Hammersia on Thursday 16th March 15:35
craigjm said:
just like the suggestions to look for another job also.
Managers obviously a s
t, and a bully. The fact that they've employed someone who can't get to work shows there also incompetent, as does the fact they resort to bullying. If the employee goes to HR and gets this resolved, the manager will hold a grudge. Would you want to work in this situation? I certainly wouldn't. The employee should absolutely look for another job.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff