E39 M5 "values"
Discussion
[quote=PHCorvette]I;ve had my e39 for just over 3 years, it was one of, if not, the last AUC car sold. I bought it with 78k on the clock but for me its a car to drive and has been a daily for a lot of the time, now on 101,000 miles I had no fear of broaching the "idiotic" price drop line as its such a good car. We have taken it all over Europe, up the Col De Bonnet and back. Fully loaded with the family. The car is just superb.
I've been fortunate to run several cars along side it and whilst owners are accused of being blinkered, I would happily state the E39 is a much better, more solid, better materials etc car than my friends new Audi S6 (which rattles, has plastics that wouldn't look out of place in a bargain bin Seat).
You close the door, it thuds. You are cossetted from the outside with virtually no external noise. Sitting in the supple yet supportive seats you prepare for your journey. Turn the key and the engine purrs into life and then you enjoy every mile. I love subtle things such as the temperature vent where you can have the climate at one temp but warm up or cold things down via the little vent. In 3 years it has cost me a couple of oil services and just had the major expense of replacing all 4 discs and sets of pads (bought OEM through Cotswold BMW for a great price).
For a year I nearly never drove it as I was having a lot of fun in the z06. Then one day I drove it on a long commute and asked myself "Why haven't I drive this more?". I've had vastly more powerful cars and yet the M5 never feels slow. I quite like the old school gearing and ridiculous gear stick. I love the ITB's, the response is almost like driving an old cable throttle body. Unlike other cars which were fantastic when putting the foot down (but lacking at other times), the e39 is just so well put together and designed that is a joy to drive even at 20mph.
I wasn't scared of breaking the 100k barrier because the car is for keeping. This year I have decided to sell a classic mini to fund a refurb on the e39. The paint is very good but 14 years old. The shocks are good but will be replaced, already done the polly bush upgrade. I've just spotted two small blobs of rust on the sills but that's all, the rest of the car is solid including the jacking points.
I'm considering putting some of the Evolve headers on to marry up to the Miltek system and perhaps delete the MAFs but time will tell.
As for values, they are worth what they are worth. There are amazingly some owners who bemoan the "ridiculous" prices some are advertised for but those are typically the types that do not really appreciate what they have. If I sold now I would get what I paid for the car (including maintenance) 3 years ago, if it goes up and up and up then great but its a keeper. Eventually people will realise the 100k mile point is a joke, there are s
tters at a lot less miles, many of them clocked. I'd always advertise for what I feel it is worth based on condition and would personally take a 100k car that's had all the work done than a 40k car that's sat on old tired components.
Nice write up.
The E39 M5 is DBW ( drive by wire ) not cable operated, unless yours has been converted.
I've been fortunate to run several cars along side it and whilst owners are accused of being blinkered, I would happily state the E39 is a much better, more solid, better materials etc car than my friends new Audi S6 (which rattles, has plastics that wouldn't look out of place in a bargain bin Seat).
You close the door, it thuds. You are cossetted from the outside with virtually no external noise. Sitting in the supple yet supportive seats you prepare for your journey. Turn the key and the engine purrs into life and then you enjoy every mile. I love subtle things such as the temperature vent where you can have the climate at one temp but warm up or cold things down via the little vent. In 3 years it has cost me a couple of oil services and just had the major expense of replacing all 4 discs and sets of pads (bought OEM through Cotswold BMW for a great price).
For a year I nearly never drove it as I was having a lot of fun in the z06. Then one day I drove it on a long commute and asked myself "Why haven't I drive this more?". I've had vastly more powerful cars and yet the M5 never feels slow. I quite like the old school gearing and ridiculous gear stick. I love the ITB's, the response is almost like driving an old cable throttle body. Unlike other cars which were fantastic when putting the foot down (but lacking at other times), the e39 is just so well put together and designed that is a joy to drive even at 20mph.
I wasn't scared of breaking the 100k barrier because the car is for keeping. This year I have decided to sell a classic mini to fund a refurb on the e39. The paint is very good but 14 years old. The shocks are good but will be replaced, already done the polly bush upgrade. I've just spotted two small blobs of rust on the sills but that's all, the rest of the car is solid including the jacking points.
I'm considering putting some of the Evolve headers on to marry up to the Miltek system and perhaps delete the MAFs but time will tell.
As for values, they are worth what they are worth. There are amazingly some owners who bemoan the "ridiculous" prices some are advertised for but those are typically the types that do not really appreciate what they have. If I sold now I would get what I paid for the car (including maintenance) 3 years ago, if it goes up and up and up then great but its a keeper. Eventually people will realise the 100k mile point is a joke, there are s
tters at a lot less miles, many of them clocked. I'd always advertise for what I feel it is worth based on condition and would personally take a 100k car that's had all the work done than a 40k car that's sat on old tired components.Nice write up.
The E39 M5 is DBW ( drive by wire ) not cable operated, unless yours has been converted.
PHCorvette said:
blah blah blah... I love the ITB's, the response is almost like driving an old cable throttle body. Unlike other cars which were fantastic when putting the foot down (but lacking at other times), the e39 is just so well put together and designed that is a joy to drive even at 20mph.
waffle waffle waffle
waffle waffle waffle
PHCorvette said:
As for values, they are worth what they are worth. There are amazingly some owners who bemoan the "ridiculous" prices some are advertised for but those are typically the types that do not really appreciate what they have. If I sold now I would get what I paid for the car (including maintenance) 3 years ago, if it goes up and up and up then great but its a keeper. Eventually people will realise the 100k mile point is a joke, there are stters at a lot less miles, many of them clocked. I'd always advertise for what I feel it is worth based on condition and would personally take a 100k car that's had all the work done than a 40k car that's sat on old tired components.
That's how I feel about my E30. (also a keeper) Yes, there are plenty with a lower mileage but I have spent the past 2 years working my way through the whole car, replacing any tired bits as I go. The mileage is largely irrelevant now, as far as the cars condition is concerned.tters at a lot less miles, many of them clocked. I'd always advertise for what I feel it is worth based on condition and would personally take a 100k car that's had all the work done than a 40k car that's sat on old tired components.I have been looking for one myself but costs do seem to be all over the place.
Has anyone had one of these or heard of the dealer etc?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
Has anyone had one of these or heard of the dealer etc?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
More and more good cars will hit the 100k, more and more ropey cars too but they are already in the 6k zone where most buyers run them until something breaks or already has. Likewise there will be a reduced number below 100k that will try to demand a premium, which they may or may not get, may or may not deserve (based on condition).
I'm fortunate, I bought mine from AUC, it had a lot of maintenance done and the biggest bill to date has been new discs and pads (this week) after 3 years of ownership (excluding tyres).
My major issue is that the work that was done prior to sale was by the dealer and they wont provide receipts for the work done so that I couldn't profit from that work in a sale, fair enough, but I want to find out if the clutch was done (as it is good) so that I don't then make a big layout for something that doesn't need doing as part of this years refurb.
Oh, the only (touch wood) failure so far has been the hedgehog which I replaced and the intermittent wiper relay. Did I mention I love this car?
I'm fortunate, I bought mine from AUC, it had a lot of maintenance done and the biggest bill to date has been new discs and pads (this week) after 3 years of ownership (excluding tyres).
My major issue is that the work that was done prior to sale was by the dealer and they wont provide receipts for the work done so that I couldn't profit from that work in a sale, fair enough, but I want to find out if the clutch was done (as it is good) so that I don't then make a big layout for something that doesn't need doing as part of this years refurb.
Oh, the only (touch wood) failure so far has been the hedgehog which I replaced and the intermittent wiper relay. Did I mention I love this car?
minimatan said:
PHCorvette said:
I know its drive by wire, I'm used to driving plenum cars so the itb response is nice and direct in comparison
Nice reply miniman
Sorry, just cutting to the chase. Your post provoked envy!Nice reply miniman
just took the blah and waffle to be what it was, blah and waffle 
Glad the post hit the mark, just as the car does!
Excuse the 5 month bump, but is there any common issues when hitting the higher (100k+) miles range? I hear about the rattling Vanos system which isn't much of a problem even if you do have it, but is it really that common? And about the suspension, I understand they're 15 year old cars now, so the suspension isn't going to be that fresh, but is there any notable worry spots that commonly develop in these cars? I'm thinking of saving for one, and obviously want to know this stuff before committing
Cheers
Cheers
rampageturke said:
Excuse the 5 month bump, but is there any common issues when hitting the higher (100k+) miles range? I hear about the rattling Vanos system which isn't much of a problem even if you do have it, but is it really that common? And about the suspension, I understand they're 15 year old cars now, so the suspension isn't going to be that fresh, but is there any notable worry spots that commonly develop in these cars? I'm thinking of saving for one, and obviously want to know this stuff before committing
Cheers
Older cars id be thinkingCheers
1. Brake pipes
2. Caliper refurbs
3. Brake servo
4. Radiator
5. Condensor
6. Airbag...
Patrick Bateman said:
Airbag?
I can think of many things ahead of that. Have a look at my profile rampageturke for an idea of keeping one mechanically tip-top.
Cheers. Honestly it's not AS bad as I thought, obviously you're still paying a premium, but I was expecting worse on some items.I can think of many things ahead of that. Have a look at my profile rampageturke for an idea of keeping one mechanically tip-top.
rampageturke said:
Excuse the 5 month bump, but is there any common issues when hitting the higher (100k+) miles range? I hear about the rattling Vanos system which isn't much of a problem even if you do have it, but is it really that common? And about the suspension, I understand they're 15 year old cars now, so the suspension isn't going to be that fresh, but is there any notable worry spots that commonly develop in these cars? I'm thinking of saving for one, and obviously want to know this stuff before committing
Cheers
Have a look at the PH BMW E39 M5 Buyers Guide for general advice. Here:Cheers
http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-guid...
A lot depends on your view of ownership. Do you just want to tick the M5 box for a year or so? If yes then buy one, do the minimum, have a blast and move it on when you're bored. It may be fine and not pull your pants down financially. (Or not if you hit a big problem.)
However, if you're in for the 'long game' then read on....
Most old cars will 'nickel & dime' you to death, the E39 M5 can do that too but can all too easily launch a major assault on your bank balance as well. The big ticket items are:
Suspension - Overhaul at high mileage is inevitable unless you're OK with baggy/knocking suspension, judder/shimmy and tramlining. As indicated they're heavy on suspension components so look for evidence of recent replacement.
Brakes - Including calipers. Easy to get into a 4 figure bill here if it's a comprehensive overhaul/replacement job involving discs, pads and caliper renovation.
Clutch - Almost a service item on very 'enthusiastically' driven cars? Most will be fine though.
Engine - Some owners have been unlucky and experienced VANOS and rod bearing issues. (Some VANOS issues are just seal related rather than mechanical bits grenading themselves. However one owner on this forum took a big financial hit on VANOS repair/replacement.) Chain guides are another recognised long term maintenance issue. There are 8 (or 9) sensors + two MAFs that can need replacement at circa £100 a pop (not including labour). The sensors make a huge difference to the performance of the engine and if not already done on a 100k mile car they may be due for imminent replacement. The engines can consume oil: 1000 miles per litre not uncommon.
The upside is that the cooling system is robust, although a thermostat change (that's a fun job!) might be necessary at some point.
Quite a few owners don't experience major engine problems. All long term owners will have tales to tell involving many, many suspension arms, rear ball joints, drop links, steering tie rods. Most will regale you with stories of rusty wheel arches, boot lids, sills and jacking points.
Mine is recently back from a 3500 mile trip to Italy through the Alps. Drove without fault. 3 figure Autobahn cruising fully loaded with ease and in total air-conditioned comfort. Didn't disgrace itself on the twisty bits either. I've spent heavily on it but it still ticks all my boxes!
Edited by Depthhoar on Tuesday 19th July 18:54
To add to the above, check carefully for rot around the jacking points, quite common and can easily be hidden. It's not always obvious even getting on your hands and knees. Ideally get it up in the air and remove sill covers etc.
Conrod bearing shells can also fail, some owners think it's overkill as preventative maintenance, but personally I would do them for piece of mind. If it spins a shell it can get very expensive....
Conrod bearing shells can also fail, some owners think it's overkill as preventative maintenance, but personally I would do them for piece of mind. If it spins a shell it can get very expensive....
Apologies for the thread resurgence......
I have a 1st world problem of "do I sell or keep my 2003 E39 M5"?
For starters it gets very little use these days with only a few hundred miles done over the last year taking the mileage to around 130k. Its been mechanically absolutely fine with none of the horror stories of vanos etc. Maintenance wise I've done springs and dampers, control arms and bushes, discs and pads, cam cover gaskets, chain tensioner, fluids etc, heater hedgehog etc. Still, the car probably doesn't owe me anything in the grand scheme of things over the 5 years I've owned it.
It needs a wheel refurb after the Mrs claimed it "slipped off the kerb" scuffing one of the wheels. The previous owner had the wheels done in a darker finish but I'll be getting them turned back to as close to the OE shadow chrome as I can.
I need to sort a couple of minor rust bubbles, one on the leading edge/corner of the bonnet and another on the front arch. Whilst I'm at it I'll get the underside inspected and if all is well get it all waxoyled inside the chassis beams etc.
I was only thinking of selling due to lack of use but then it's such a loveable machine that doesn't need much money spending on it to make it a very nice example of one of the last UK cars sold. The other option is keep it for another couple of years and see where I am money-wise to sell it to help fund the next car.
It's good to know that nice examples of these cars probably won't depreciate at all so keeping hold and looking after them should be a fairly painless way to go.
I have a 1st world problem of "do I sell or keep my 2003 E39 M5"?
For starters it gets very little use these days with only a few hundred miles done over the last year taking the mileage to around 130k. Its been mechanically absolutely fine with none of the horror stories of vanos etc. Maintenance wise I've done springs and dampers, control arms and bushes, discs and pads, cam cover gaskets, chain tensioner, fluids etc, heater hedgehog etc. Still, the car probably doesn't owe me anything in the grand scheme of things over the 5 years I've owned it.
It needs a wheel refurb after the Mrs claimed it "slipped off the kerb" scuffing one of the wheels. The previous owner had the wheels done in a darker finish but I'll be getting them turned back to as close to the OE shadow chrome as I can.
I need to sort a couple of minor rust bubbles, one on the leading edge/corner of the bonnet and another on the front arch. Whilst I'm at it I'll get the underside inspected and if all is well get it all waxoyled inside the chassis beams etc.
I was only thinking of selling due to lack of use but then it's such a loveable machine that doesn't need much money spending on it to make it a very nice example of one of the last UK cars sold. The other option is keep it for another couple of years and see where I am money-wise to sell it to help fund the next car.
It's good to know that nice examples of these cars probably won't depreciate at all so keeping hold and looking after them should be a fairly painless way to go.
Depends if you enjoy driving it. I got bored of mine after 4 years and sold it without even advertising it. Mine had no rust issues and jacking points were perfect. I'd also renewed the shocks for oem and discs. Sold mine over 3 years ago when they were rock bottom and the guy I sold it to sold it on 2 years later for another 2k. Thought I would miss it but don't miss it all, great car but just like to move on to something more modern.
Can't see it dropping in value.
Can't see it dropping in value.
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