Discussion
Currently running an M135i ('63 plate, so pre-LCI) and whilst the engine is undoubtedly a gem, I find the rest of the car lacking in terms of handling and refinement. It can be a frustrating car at times in that when you find the right road and want it to come alive, it has a tendency to make you want to back off, which is a shame as it really detracts from it's true potential as a Jekyll and Hyde car. The main culprit is the suspension which doesn't so much soak up the road but skirts/bounces along (mine has passive dampers and non-run flats).
Anyway, the current plan is to change in September and my thoughts are to take the plunge and go for an F80 M3. I've toyed with the idea of a full ///M before but head has always prevailed (a 130i and M135i being the 'sensible' choices in the past). On paper, the F80 M3 looks like it could tick the right boxes and be a great and composed family/commuting car but have that edge that the M135i doesn't when the mood strikes.
I'd be looking at the lower end of the F80 spectrum (AUC prices seem to be about £40k ish for a '14-'15 plate) but I'm not clear as to whether I'd suffer the same frustrations with these early M3s as I do with my early M135i - there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice as to whether the early F80 M3 was skittish and tail happy or whether this was just internet hearsay.
I know the easy way to answer the question is to go and drive one but I would be interested to hear from anyone who has made a similar move and what their thoughts are.
Anyway, the current plan is to change in September and my thoughts are to take the plunge and go for an F80 M3. I've toyed with the idea of a full ///M before but head has always prevailed (a 130i and M135i being the 'sensible' choices in the past). On paper, the F80 M3 looks like it could tick the right boxes and be a great and composed family/commuting car but have that edge that the M135i doesn't when the mood strikes.
I'd be looking at the lower end of the F80 spectrum (AUC prices seem to be about £40k ish for a '14-'15 plate) but I'm not clear as to whether I'd suffer the same frustrations with these early M3s as I do with my early M135i - there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice as to whether the early F80 M3 was skittish and tail happy or whether this was just internet hearsay.
I know the easy way to answer the question is to go and drive one but I would be interested to hear from anyone who has made a similar move and what their thoughts are.
gareth h said:
Or something like KW V3 coilovers on the M135? It would definitely feel more planted, if you are happy with all other aspects of the car.
That has occurred to me, yes. The larger size and refinement of the 3 series does appeal though for when it is used for family and commuting duties.There is also the part of me that says get a proper M car and be done with it rather than trying to modify something to become almost an M car!
I can provide some feedback:
I went from a M135 (14 plate) to a M4 (64plate), in short they are night and day, i was expecting some similarity with both been 6 cylinder turbo 3 litre engines but the way the M4 delivers the power it is so much more intense.
I fitted eibach springs and spacers to the M135 which did improve the handling but i also felt the vagueness with the chassis and it never quite felt right. The M4 does suffer some traction issues and the handling isn't perfect but the feel of the steering,chassis and the way it turns in, it really cannot be compared with an M135. I am looking into adding Kw v3's to the M4 which apparently help with some of the traction issues.
Finally the M135's looks never excited me it is a fairly dull looking car, the M3/4 have so much road presence and attracts a stupid amount of attention if thats your thing.
DO IT!!!
I went from a M135 (14 plate) to a M4 (64plate), in short they are night and day, i was expecting some similarity with both been 6 cylinder turbo 3 litre engines but the way the M4 delivers the power it is so much more intense.
I fitted eibach springs and spacers to the M135 which did improve the handling but i also felt the vagueness with the chassis and it never quite felt right. The M4 does suffer some traction issues and the handling isn't perfect but the feel of the steering,chassis and the way it turns in, it really cannot be compared with an M135. I am looking into adding Kw v3's to the M4 which apparently help with some of the traction issues.
Finally the M135's looks never excited me it is a fairly dull looking car, the M3/4 have so much road presence and attracts a stupid amount of attention if thats your thing.
DO IT!!!
olly-robinson said:
I can provide some feedback:
I went from a M135 (14 plate) to a M4 (64plate), in short they are night and day, i was expecting some similarity with both been 6 cylinder turbo 3 litre engines but the way the M4 delivers the power it is so much more intense.
I fitted eibach springs and spacers to the M135 which did improve the handling but i also felt the vagueness with the chassis and it never quite felt right. The M4 does suffer some traction issues and the handling isn't perfect but the feel of the steering,chassis and the way it turns in, it really cannot be compared with an M135. I am looking into adding Kw v3's to the M4 which apparently help with some of the traction issues.
Finally the M135's looks never excited me it is a fairly dull looking car, the M3/4 have so much road presence and attracts a stupid amount of attention if thats your thing.
DO IT!!!
Olly that's great, thanks!I went from a M135 (14 plate) to a M4 (64plate), in short they are night and day, i was expecting some similarity with both been 6 cylinder turbo 3 litre engines but the way the M4 delivers the power it is so much more intense.
I fitted eibach springs and spacers to the M135 which did improve the handling but i also felt the vagueness with the chassis and it never quite felt right. The M4 does suffer some traction issues and the handling isn't perfect but the feel of the steering,chassis and the way it turns in, it really cannot be compared with an M135. I am looking into adding Kw v3's to the M4 which apparently help with some of the traction issues.
Finally the M135's looks never excited me it is a fairly dull looking car, the M3/4 have so much road presence and attracts a stupid amount of attention if thats your thing.
DO IT!!!
On the flip side of the performance, how does the M4 compare to the M135i in terms of everyday driving; the dull stuff? With the 1 series being so small I do find it lacks a degree of refinement which I would hope is dealt with in the larger M3/M4.
I've never felt that the M135i makes me back off due to the vagueness, but it's certainly not sharp when you're on it and you have to do an awful lot of work to stop the open diff making a mess of things and ensuring that the chassis is loaded and unloaded gently and smoothly.
By contrast, the F80 M3 that I drove was fantastic. It cornered much flatter, spun up the rears whenever I wanted it to and made a huge amount more fake noise than the M135i. Overall, it made my M135i feel like a 116i. The only things I didn't like was the sound from the outside and the lack of any real engine noise inside. I think I could live with one though, if forced to.
Incidentally, the normal driving stuff was handled like a regular 3 series. In fact it was too easy really. In the days of the E36 and E46, the lumps used to be a bit recalcitrant first thing in the morning, but the F80 was flawless, which I think detracted from the character a little.
By contrast, the F80 M3 that I drove was fantastic. It cornered much flatter, spun up the rears whenever I wanted it to and made a huge amount more fake noise than the M135i. Overall, it made my M135i feel like a 116i. The only things I didn't like was the sound from the outside and the lack of any real engine noise inside. I think I could live with one though, if forced to.
Incidentally, the normal driving stuff was handled like a regular 3 series. In fact it was too easy really. In the days of the E36 and E46, the lumps used to be a bit recalcitrant first thing in the morning, but the F80 was flawless, which I think detracted from the character a little.
Edited by bennyboysvuk on Friday 31st March 13:16
bennyboysvuk said:
I've never felt that the M135i makes me back off due to the vagueness, but it's certainly not sharp when you're on it and you have to do an awful lot of work to stop the open diff making a mess of things and ensuring that the chassis is loaded and unloaded gently and smoothly.
I wouldn't say it is the vagueness that is the issue; I find it is the suspension. I'm certainly no expert but the way it hops and bounces, particularly over less than perfect roads, doesn't inspire confidence and detracts from an otherwise decent chassis.Edited by bennyboysvuk on Friday 31st March 13:16
snorkel sucker said:
Olly that's great, thanks!
On the flip side of the performance, how does the M4 compare to the M135i in terms of everyday driving; the dull stuff? With the 1 series being so small I do find it lacks a degree of refinement which I would hope is dealt with in the larger M3/M4.
It is perfect for every day use, the interior is far nicer and the build quality appears better. Although it is a fair bit louder, i have my exhaust valves open 100% of the time and it can drone slightly but its never bothered me. And the rear suspension is bolted directly to the shell on the M4 without any bushes so tyre noise is quite intrusive, again this isn't a problem to me as the tightness of the car makes up for any discomfort. On the flip side of the performance, how does the M4 compare to the M135i in terms of everyday driving; the dull stuff? With the 1 series being so small I do find it lacks a degree of refinement which I would hope is dealt with in the larger M3/M4.
The only time I really enjoyed driving my M135i was a late night thrash the day before it was px'd. problem being that to enjoy it towards the limit you are 1) going too fast for public roads 2) looking for the right roads where there is sufficient space to offset its lack of precision.
That said, for the amount it cost, it's a fantastic car.
That said, for the amount it cost, it's a fantastic car.
A friend had until Autumn last year a rare '13 registered M135i Auto that had been A C Schnizter tuned to Stage 2 & 380 bhp (conservatively figures apparently). He bought the car already with the upgrades from the ACS UK dealer & if you've any BMW Car Club members on here who do the occasional track day with them, it was an utter weapon with a set of AD08R tyres & some uprated pads. It rode we'll both on the road & track & was more than able to mix it with the faster M cars. He's admitted he regrets selling the car & has been looking for a standard M135i to change the suspension on & remap ever since!
As cars go, the M135i ACS2 with auto box was immense IMO & it proves you don't necessarily need a proper M car to have fun (remap a & suspension options are plentiful if tuning a standard M135i) & if you decat, or sports cat as well, the word is that circa 400 bhp is possible
As cars go, the M135i ACS2 with auto box was immense IMO & it proves you don't necessarily need a proper M car to have fun (remap a & suspension options are plentiful if tuning a standard M135i) & if you decat, or sports cat as well, the word is that circa 400 bhp is possible
I also went from an early M135i to a 2016 M4 (non comp pack). In summary i loved the M135 for everything apart from when you are on a B-road blast or a silly speed empty motorway run. it just never felt planted and i found myself bouncing around and correcting the steering at times when you want it on rails! I was a true defender at the time of the school of thought that an M135i is still an ///M car and deserves the recognition of being so. it was a pocket rocket and you could pretty much spend all day with your foot to the floor going silly speeds at will.
Then i got my M4 and realised quite what a massive gap there is between the two cars. In comparison the F8x handles like a train. massive torque, nailed to the road and way faster than you could ever need. If you drive it flat out all the time like you can an M135i it will kill you pretty quickly and probably take a fair few innocent road users with you. basically 95% of the time on the roads it has a massive surplus of power so you will never be short changed when you want to press on. Handling is night and day from the M135i in the right hands the f8x can out corner pretty much anything however that said it does require a certain level of driver skill to make use of it.
It does inspire respect in its potential and you will find you arent using any way near its full potential on the roads. get it on track and it'll really impress.
mine has the Mperformance exhaust and crg valve controller, the only down side i can see with these cars is the exhaust tone so if you can find one with an exhaust upgrade then i would seriously consider that. it makes a massive difference to the stock set up in terms of the whole theatre of driving it.
oh and the daily plodding side of things is fine. in comfort mode it will plod along at 60 in perfect comfort and handles traffic jams etc no problem at all. its a nice place to waste an hour staring at the back of a van if you do that a lot like i do on my commute.
Then i got my M4 and realised quite what a massive gap there is between the two cars. In comparison the F8x handles like a train. massive torque, nailed to the road and way faster than you could ever need. If you drive it flat out all the time like you can an M135i it will kill you pretty quickly and probably take a fair few innocent road users with you. basically 95% of the time on the roads it has a massive surplus of power so you will never be short changed when you want to press on. Handling is night and day from the M135i in the right hands the f8x can out corner pretty much anything however that said it does require a certain level of driver skill to make use of it.
It does inspire respect in its potential and you will find you arent using any way near its full potential on the roads. get it on track and it'll really impress.
mine has the Mperformance exhaust and crg valve controller, the only down side i can see with these cars is the exhaust tone so if you can find one with an exhaust upgrade then i would seriously consider that. it makes a massive difference to the stock set up in terms of the whole theatre of driving it.
oh and the daily plodding side of things is fine. in comfort mode it will plod along at 60 in perfect comfort and handles traffic jams etc no problem at all. its a nice place to waste an hour staring at the back of a van if you do that a lot like i do on my commute.
I have an m135i and totally agree with your thoughts on the suspension and that the bumps/uneven roads spoil everything. Im looking into getting an lsd and better shocks. I would love and m3 and i can afford one but just cant justify the cost, if i chopped in the m135i i would still have to pay what amounts to a small mortgage payment to own one.
As nice as a M3/M4 would be I couldn't justify one (at least whilst I've got another toy in the garage) so I ended up going for a M140 after having a pre-facelift M135.
I appreciate it's not the "step up" that we all like when changing cars but the improvements in ride and handling are noticeable and the B58 with it's stronger mid-range feels to have a bigger power hike than the numbers might suggest. It's now the perfect daily driver for me (if not the prettiest thing out there
) so might be worth a look if only to discount one.
I appreciate it's not the "step up" that we all like when changing cars but the improvements in ride and handling are noticeable and the B58 with it's stronger mid-range feels to have a bigger power hike than the numbers might suggest. It's now the perfect daily driver for me (if not the prettiest thing out there
) so might be worth a look if only to discount one. Did anyone have the adaptive suspension?
As i have an LCI M135i and haven't experienced the skipping problems mentioned above...
if anything when having a 'spritied' drive, i back out before the car does as the way it piles on the speed and natural grip exceeds common sense, even on an empty road.
perhaps I'm not driving it hard enough?
driving the old E36 M3 at the weekend, shows the power and torque advantage of the turbo engine, but the old N/A lumps is much more characterful, with its cold grumpiness and its feral top end. you have to drive it in almost 2 gears lower to make the same progress
As i have an LCI M135i and haven't experienced the skipping problems mentioned above...
if anything when having a 'spritied' drive, i back out before the car does as the way it piles on the speed and natural grip exceeds common sense, even on an empty road.
perhaps I'm not driving it hard enough?
driving the old E36 M3 at the weekend, shows the power and torque advantage of the turbo engine, but the old N/A lumps is much more characterful, with its cold grumpiness and its feral top end. you have to drive it in almost 2 gears lower to make the same progress
M140i, whilst great, is more of a sidestep than a step forward. Plus, with a young family a 1 series really doesn't cut the mustard, size wise.
I have in the last couple of weeks ditched the run flats (Bridgestone S001) and replaced them with some Uniroyal Rainsport 3 and the difference between them is very significant, much more than I thought and much more than I recall it being when I did the same sort of thing on my 130i.
Pretty much gone is the jiggly ride (it still isn't great) and although a small amount of turn in sharpness has gone, overall grip levels are massively higher, ride is better and you can subsequently drive the car faster and harder. Even I'm shocked at the difference.
I have in the last couple of weeks ditched the run flats (Bridgestone S001) and replaced them with some Uniroyal Rainsport 3 and the difference between them is very significant, much more than I thought and much more than I recall it being when I did the same sort of thing on my 130i.
Pretty much gone is the jiggly ride (it still isn't great) and although a small amount of turn in sharpness has gone, overall grip levels are massively higher, ride is better and you can subsequently drive the car faster and harder. Even I'm shocked at the difference.
I've swapped two weeks ago from a M235i to a F80 M3. I agree with Jimboo's comment.
I felt the 235i was a great little car, handled ok, power was good etc, but it is just a lot less focused, more of a 2 series with a powerful engine and some little ///M badges chucked all over it. Probably like the 135i.
The full fat M car is a joy, I have a 2015 non comp pack and the step up was worth it as the difference is more than you expect.
I felt the 235i was a great little car, handled ok, power was good etc, but it is just a lot less focused, more of a 2 series with a powerful engine and some little ///M badges chucked all over it. Probably like the 135i.
The full fat M car is a joy, I have a 2015 non comp pack and the step up was worth it as the difference is more than you expect.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff