E46 M3 prices....increasing
Discussion
benaldo said:
Hah! That carbon black one is my old one. I sold it back in October last year to a couple of dealers (who said they worked in the NHS but sold some cars on the side) from Bradford / Leeds sort of way. However, this car would be one they would keep for themselves......... Mileage looks the same, but they have swapped off the genuine CSL wheels and it now it appears to be in Kenilworth so I guess it was moved on to another dealer.
There was some rust on the front wings and a little on the rear wing but from the (very poor) pictures, looks like it has been fixed. I would expect that it would have needed new front wings as any repair that I researched wouldn't have been 'long term' without replacing them as the metal is so thin there.
I'd be interested if they had done anything to the boot floor as it was something that every caller asked about but I hadn't had it reinforced or checked. The guys who bought it had a look at the boot floor but didn't go underneath and didn't see anything.
I sold it for £7.5k but realised it needed about £1 - £1.5k spent on the bodywork but it did have CSL alloys so I reckon that price is a little high - but maybe prices have been increasing.
PM me if you are genuinely interested and want more details !
Thanks for the offer of sharing history, I've sent you a message. Bodywork has all been done apparently and it seems to be at the bottom end of where prices are now so i'm going to see it on Thursday, not sure if I am a serious E46 buyer right now but I like the look of this one and prices are only going up it seems so now might be a good time to buy one.There was some rust on the front wings and a little on the rear wing but from the (very poor) pictures, looks like it has been fixed. I would expect that it would have needed new front wings as any repair that I researched wouldn't have been 'long term' without replacing them as the metal is so thin there.
I'd be interested if they had done anything to the boot floor as it was something that every caller asked about but I hadn't had it reinforced or checked. The guys who bought it had a look at the boot floor but didn't go underneath and didn't see anything.
I sold it for £7.5k but realised it needed about £1 - £1.5k spent on the bodywork but it did have CSL alloys so I reckon that price is a little high - but maybe prices have been increasing.
PM me if you are genuinely interested and want more details !
Both general market factors and factors specific to the car seem to be causing an increase in values.
As any economist will tell you, value is determined by the intersection of demand and supply.
Market factors: the UK economy has rebounded strongly since the financial crisis. Second-hand car prices across all markets are firm. Effect: demand is falling less than it would otherwise.
Specific factors: the e46 M3 is renowned as the best M3 BMW ever made (debatable I know...). It is well-balanced, naturally aspirated, has hydraulic steering and offers a tactile experience as a driver's car. Successors such as the E90 M3 are arguably more GT cars than sports cars.
Most modern cars are not exceeding or superseding this experience.** That is particularly the case with turbos and electric cars becoming prevalent. Automatic gearboxes are also more popular now.
Effect: demand not replaced by modern cars; demand remains steady (or falls less than it would otherwise)
This applies most to manual coupe e46 m3's, given the sports car characteristics mentioned above.
On the supply side, e46s around the country are increasing in mileage every day. Occasionally they are being written off. So supply is slowly falling. Ultra low mileage examples (under 20k, under 30k...), particularly the desirable manual coupe, are very hard to find.
If demand holds pretty steady and supply falls...Basic economic theory tells you that prices will rise.
As any economist will tell you, value is determined by the intersection of demand and supply.
Market factors: the UK economy has rebounded strongly since the financial crisis. Second-hand car prices across all markets are firm. Effect: demand is falling less than it would otherwise.
Specific factors: the e46 M3 is renowned as the best M3 BMW ever made (debatable I know...). It is well-balanced, naturally aspirated, has hydraulic steering and offers a tactile experience as a driver's car. Successors such as the E90 M3 are arguably more GT cars than sports cars.
Most modern cars are not exceeding or superseding this experience.** That is particularly the case with turbos and electric cars becoming prevalent. Automatic gearboxes are also more popular now.
Effect: demand not replaced by modern cars; demand remains steady (or falls less than it would otherwise)
This applies most to manual coupe e46 m3's, given the sports car characteristics mentioned above.
On the supply side, e46s around the country are increasing in mileage every day. Occasionally they are being written off. So supply is slowly falling. Ultra low mileage examples (under 20k, under 30k...), particularly the desirable manual coupe, are very hard to find.
If demand holds pretty steady and supply falls...Basic economic theory tells you that prices will rise.
- *I hooned an M235i around the amazing, traffic free roads of Tasmania on a 2 week holiday recently and was hugely disappointed...Powerful and capable GT car, yes. But a sports car it is not. And with noticeable turbo lag. I know it's not an M-car, but equally it is a "small" ... "light" ... car with sporty pretensions in the modern mould
Edited by decrassius on Monday 19th June 07:18
Edited by decrassius on Monday 19th June 07:19
decrassius said:
Both general market factors and factors specific to the car seem to be causing an increase in values.
As any economist will tell you, value is determined by the intersection of demand and supply.
Market factors: the UK economy has rebounded strongly since the financial crisis. Second-hand car prices across all markets are firm. Effect: demand is falling less than it would otherwise.
Specific factors: the e46 M3 is renowned as the best M3 BMW ever made (debatable I know...). It is well-balanced, naturally aspirated, has hydraulic steering and offers a tactile experience as a driver's car. Successors such as the E90 M3 are arguably more GT cars than sports cars.
Most modern cars are not exceeding or superseding this experience.** That is particularly the case with turbos and electric cars becoming prevalent. Automatic gearboxes are also more popular now.
Effect: demand not replaced by modern cars; demand remains steady (or falls less than it would otherwise)
This applies most to manual coupe e46 m3's, given the sports car characteristics mentioned above.
On the supply side, e46s around the country are increasing in mileage every day. Occasionally they are being written off. So supply is slowly falling. Ultra low mileage examples (under 20k, under 30k...), particularly the desirable manual coupe, are very hard to find.
If demand holds pretty steady and supply falls...Basic economic theory tells you that prices will rise.
I have avoided the E46 M3 'SMG vs manual debate' for years. But I need to say that BMW manual gearboxes are simply horrid (I have had 3 now: E36 325i E46 330i and E87 120d - possibly the best is in my 120d). I will say the pedals a set lovely for heel / toe tho...As any economist will tell you, value is determined by the intersection of demand and supply.
Market factors: the UK economy has rebounded strongly since the financial crisis. Second-hand car prices across all markets are firm. Effect: demand is falling less than it would otherwise.
Specific factors: the e46 M3 is renowned as the best M3 BMW ever made (debatable I know...). It is well-balanced, naturally aspirated, has hydraulic steering and offers a tactile experience as a driver's car. Successors such as the E90 M3 are arguably more GT cars than sports cars.
Most modern cars are not exceeding or superseding this experience.** That is particularly the case with turbos and electric cars becoming prevalent. Automatic gearboxes are also more popular now.
Effect: demand not replaced by modern cars; demand remains steady (or falls less than it would otherwise)
This applies most to manual coupe e46 m3's, given the sports car characteristics mentioned above.
On the supply side, e46s around the country are increasing in mileage every day. Occasionally they are being written off. So supply is slowly falling. Ultra low mileage examples (under 20k, under 30k...), particularly the desirable manual coupe, are very hard to find.
If demand holds pretty steady and supply falls...Basic economic theory tells you that prices will rise.
- *I hooned an M235i around the amazing, traffic free roads of Tasmania on a 2 week holiday recently and was hugely disappointed...Powerful and capable GT car, yes. But a sports car it is not. And with noticeable turbo lag. I know it's not an M-car, but equally it is a "small" ... "light" ... car with sporty pretensions in the modern mould
Edited by decrassius on Monday 19th June 07:18
Edited by decrassius on Monday 19th June 07:19
SMG suits the M3 and can be driven delicately or aggressively. It's totally worth the (over blown by www forums) downsides. I have had recent experiences that could have put me off but in the round did not change my view. (Issue was clutch slur - now sorted - when updated firmware was flashed into the box). The CSL can only be had with SMG which says it all.
My family has owned 3 of these all SMG and zero SMG failures. I did need the axle carrier work done on mine but other than that VANOS / rod ends etc fine (two of these cars at c100k now).
Nothing wrong with SMG and nothing great about the e46 m3 manual gearbox - I personally can't stand automatics in any car, whether it's a diesel golf or a 458 speciale. I hate the loss of control. Of course this is most important in performance cars, like an M3.
There are plenty of people who like automatics but generally the trend for that visceral experience of older, NA cars, such as the m3 is to prefer manuals
There are plenty of people who like automatics but generally the trend for that visceral experience of older, NA cars, such as the m3 is to prefer manuals
Davidonly said:
I have avoided the E46 M3 'SMG vs manual debate' for years. But I need to say that BMW manual gearboxes are simply horrid (I have had 3 now: E36 325i E46 330i and E87 120d - possibly the best is in my 120d). I will say the pedals a set lovely for heel / toe tho...
SMG suits the M3 and can be driven delicately or aggressively. It's totally worth the (over blown by www forums) downsides. I have had recent experiences that could have put me off but in the round did not change my view. (Issue was clutch slur - now sorted - when updated firmware was flashed into the box). The CSL can only be had with SMG which says it all.
My family has owned 3 of these all SMG and zero SMG failures. I did need the axle carrier work done on mine but other than that VANOS / rod ends etc fine (two of these cars at c100k now).
The one reply which speaks sense.SMG suits the M3 and can be driven delicately or aggressively. It's totally worth the (over blown by www forums) downsides. I have had recent experiences that could have put me off but in the round did not change my view. (Issue was clutch slur - now sorted - when updated firmware was flashed into the box). The CSL can only be had with SMG which says it all.
My family has owned 3 of these all SMG and zero SMG failures. I did need the axle carrier work done on mine but other than that VANOS / rod ends etc fine (two of these cars at c100k now).
IMHO you don't really lose *that* much control at all. In some ways you arguably gain it as you say with the delicacy and agressiveness. It's just another way to getting there.
Like you I hated my E36 323i manual and could not get (and still can't) what the fuss is about. That was with it having a new clutch as well. More control? The bloody think crunched if I went too quick to change and it wasn't a syncro issue.
I was always a manual guy until I drove an M135i ; the 745i prior to that wasn't as good. I loved the car but hated the steering.
I've been offered a 2005 Convetible with hard-top with 59k, FBMWSH and in fantastic condition for £10k.... I don't need another car but I just think it is very good value for money and I will probably make a few pounds....
Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
02joe said:
I've been offered a 2005 Convetible with hard-top with 59k, FBMWSH and in fantastic condition for £10k.... I don't need another car but I just think it is very good value for money and I will probably make a few pounds....
Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
Bargain, assuming it's a legit, bite their hands off. Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
that's half the price of this one :
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
thus the cynic in me, say is it too good to be true??? sorry, if it's friend or family selling it
02joe said:
I've been offered a 2005 Convetible with hard-top with 59k, FBMWSH and in fantastic condition for £10k.... I don't need another car but I just think it is very good value for money and I will probably make a few pounds....
Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
A bargain if it doesn't need anything doing . I've just paid £9k for a 2001 car with 100k on it , but .. it had just had £6k spent on it and even then I will have spent £1k since purchase to get it perfect . Car is a carbon black manual with heated seats, nav + TV, bluetooth.
Thoughts?
02joe said:
it needs front discs and pads and maybe rear pads. Car has had paint at some point in its life, but it looks very good otherwise.
Depending on which specialist or garage has worked on it I'd add an Inspection I and possibly even a II onto that. The Inspection made a nice difference to the power delivery on mine. It's the difference between something that feels like a lacklustre 330i and a proper M3 .Some specialists I also know are happy to charge but not do the work. I know that ETA and Redish do physically check them .
Sounds like a reasonable buy to be fair .
02joe said:
I bought the car. I am planning to tidy up the few bits on it I'm not happy with and go from there. I didn't need to buy another toy as I have a VXR8 for that, but it seemed too good an opportunity to pass on!
Congrats. I must admit, had I not just spent the equivalent of a very tidy e46 M3 on my e30, I'd be looking to get one whilst they're still sensibly priced. Any pics?Davidonly said:
I have avoided the E46 M3 'SMG vs manual debate' for years. But I need to say that BMW manual gearboxes are simply horrid (I have had 3 now: E36 325i E46 330i and E87 120d - possibly the best is in my 120d). I will say the pedals a set lovely for heel / toe tho...
SMG suits the M3 and can be driven delicately or aggressively. It's totally worth the (over blown by www forums) downsides. I have had recent experiences that could have put me off but in the round did not change my view. (Issue was clutch slur - now sorted - when updated firmware was flashed into the box). The CSL can only be had with SMG which says it all.
My family has owned 3 of these all SMG and zero SMG failures. I did need the axle carrier work done on mine but other than that VANOS / rod ends etc fine (two of these cars at c100k now).
I think the manuals are very sensitive to gearbox oil and perhaps previous use (synchros). I owned a 60k miles 'well used' manual that was very notchy, then later my current 27k mile manual that I've taken to 37k miles with a recent inspection 2 Inc gearbox oil change. It remains very nice to use with no notichiness whatsoever.SMG suits the M3 and can be driven delicately or aggressively. It's totally worth the (over blown by www forums) downsides. I have had recent experiences that could have put me off but in the round did not change my view. (Issue was clutch slur - now sorted - when updated firmware was flashed into the box). The CSL can only be had with SMG which says it all.
My family has owned 3 of these all SMG and zero SMG failures. I did need the axle carrier work done on mine but other than that VANOS / rod ends etc fine (two of these cars at c100k now).
I'm 6 months into ownership and I have to say I love it. I also have a McLaren 12C and an Elise and a couple of Porsches and I think the M3 delivers as many thrills as any of them. The engine is a masterpiece, the cabin is one of BMW's best, the styling is just 'right'.
I'm lending the 12C to a mate this weekend who is lending me his E90 V8 manual coupe in return, so it'll be really interesting to compare the 2 generations of M3.
FWIW I paid £8.8k for a 2003 manual non-sunroof car with 113k miles and a full history, boot floor checked.
I've chucked KW v3 suspension on it, am doing an airbox and will fit Porsche brakes. Otherwise, standard.
I'm lending the 12C to a mate this weekend who is lending me his E90 V8 manual coupe in return, so it'll be really interesting to compare the 2 generations of M3.
FWIW I paid £8.8k for a 2003 manual non-sunroof car with 113k miles and a full history, boot floor checked.
I've chucked KW v3 suspension on it, am doing an airbox and will fit Porsche brakes. Otherwise, standard.
Jumping in at the end here I am also massively interested in getting my hands on an e46 M3.
I recently purchased a Z4M coupe with my Dad as a once a month sort of car (although it will be driven more regularly than this it will only be taken out properly more infrequently) and have fallen in love with the S54 engine.' My dad was so impressed he has now gone and separately bought a Z4M Roadster.
I have seen the E46 M3 prices stabilise, and there seem to be more articles here and there about how good they are and why they make a good investment but I am just massively put off by running costs and major issues, Subframe Vanos, conrods.
Does anyone know if there are any warranties that will cover this?
Alternatively I was looking at buying a cheaper car, assuming stuff is on the way to breaking, and taking it to Reddish to get the subframe done. Havent looked into Vanos costs yet.
I did see this one that had me very interested due to the mods!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-BMW-M3-3-2-GEOFF-ST...
alternatively the cheapest way in to E46 M3 ownership seems to be by getting a convertible. I cant really get excited by a convertible but the saving seems ridiculous and whilst it wont be the same driving experience it is still an S54 engine!
I recently purchased a Z4M coupe with my Dad as a once a month sort of car (although it will be driven more regularly than this it will only be taken out properly more infrequently) and have fallen in love with the S54 engine.' My dad was so impressed he has now gone and separately bought a Z4M Roadster.
I have seen the E46 M3 prices stabilise, and there seem to be more articles here and there about how good they are and why they make a good investment but I am just massively put off by running costs and major issues, Subframe Vanos, conrods.
Does anyone know if there are any warranties that will cover this?
Alternatively I was looking at buying a cheaper car, assuming stuff is on the way to breaking, and taking it to Reddish to get the subframe done. Havent looked into Vanos costs yet.
I did see this one that had me very interested due to the mods!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-BMW-M3-3-2-GEOFF-ST...
alternatively the cheapest way in to E46 M3 ownership seems to be by getting a convertible. I cant really get excited by a convertible but the saving seems ridiculous and whilst it wont be the same driving experience it is still an S54 engine!
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