F31 won't restart after stalling
Discussion
I'll probably be derided for posting this but here goes: I have a 320d, which I see is referred to as F31, and unlike normal diesel engines the motor has no low-speed slogging capability and has to have a six-speed gearbox to cope.
With all those gears it is quite easy to select the wrong one and stall the engine when in a hurry. In every other car I've driven one can restart as soon as one can reach the key, but this car's press-button seems to be locked-out for some time before it lets you restart. Is that to cope with some scenario that a BMW computer programmer has thought of (but I haven't), or is it the malfunction it seems to be?
I have asked the dealer but, as with most technical matters, their people do not know. Does anyone here actually know?
The only solution seems to be to allow the stop-start system to function which I do not like as in my experience an engine that stops at traffic lights means trouble, and it's hard to change deep-rooted perceptions.
With all those gears it is quite easy to select the wrong one and stall the engine when in a hurry. In every other car I've driven one can restart as soon as one can reach the key, but this car's press-button seems to be locked-out for some time before it lets you restart. Is that to cope with some scenario that a BMW computer programmer has thought of (but I haven't), or is it the malfunction it seems to be?
I have asked the dealer but, as with most technical matters, their people do not know. Does anyone here actually know?
The only solution seems to be to allow the stop-start system to function which I do not like as in my experience an engine that stops at traffic lights means trouble, and it's hard to change deep-rooted perceptions.
Couple of things.
Firstly define "for some time" are we talking a couple of seconds, several minutes, half an hour?
Secondly, I know it is not the same car but Mrs E has a Co car which is a VX Insignia 2.0 & this is RIDICULOUSLY easy to stall, in fact it isn't like it is actually stalling it is more like as soon as the engine RPM goes below certain revs it actually stops, you can be moving at 20 mph & it will not restart until you actually brake & clutch down & then restart it.
None of this put it in the right gear & turn the key like every other car I have ever driven, you need the clutch & brake pressed, which is REALLY clever when you are half out of a junction!!!!!!
Firstly define "for some time" are we talking a couple of seconds, several minutes, half an hour?
Secondly, I know it is not the same car but Mrs E has a Co car which is a VX Insignia 2.0 & this is RIDICULOUSLY easy to stall, in fact it isn't like it is actually stalling it is more like as soon as the engine RPM goes below certain revs it actually stops, you can be moving at 20 mph & it will not restart until you actually brake & clutch down & then restart it.
None of this put it in the right gear & turn the key like every other car I have ever driven, you need the clutch & brake pressed, which is REALLY clever when you are half out of a junction!!!!!!
Good point!
When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
Allan L said:
Good point!
When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
I had several 'brand new' F Generation cars as loaners, between Dec 2014-Dec 2016 to give an idea of their age. When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
Smuler said:
I had several 'brand new' F Generation cars as loaners, between Dec 2014-Dec 2016 to give an idea of their age.
I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
As I wrote it's an F31 320d which I assume defines it pretty closely and if the year matters its 2016. It has no key, just a remote control, and (again as I wrote) it has a press-button start.I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
Allan L said:
Smuler said:
I had several 'brand new' F Generation cars as loaners, between Dec 2014-Dec 2016 to give an idea of their age.
I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
As I wrote it's an F31 320d which I assume defines it pretty closely and if the year matters its 2016. It has no key, just a remote control, and (again as I wrote) it has a press-button start.I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
The model year may well matter, especially as it's a 2016 when, I believe, the LCI happened, including several engine changes.
Btw the 6 speed box isn't needed to cope with any perceived lack of low down grunt. Most diesels work better with more, closely spaced gears because of their relatively narrow usable rev range.
Many small diesels will stall relatively easily especially in too high a gear. IME it gets better with mileage, though it's a while since I had a manual diesel.
As for the starting issue I would make sure you're not leaving it in gear when you perhaps shouldn't, you have the clutch and brake in their proper situations and you don't need to quickly press the start button to 'turn it off' before pressing again to start. I recall having key starts that you had to turn off before restarting.
REALIST123 said:
As for the starting issue I would make sure you're not leaving it in gear when you perhaps shouldn't, you have the clutch and brake in their proper situations and you don't need to quickly press the start button to 'turn it off' before pressing again to start. I recall having key starts that you had to turn off before restarting.
The first times it happened I would have left it in gear ready to move off when it started, that being how one deals with normal cars in that situation. I'm sure I've tried putting it in neutral more recently.You may have a point about the "microsoft logic" button (press "start" to stop it!) needing to be pressed twice, but sitting there in the middle of the traffic I would have pressed it several times during the minute or so I'm on about.
Thanks for the confirmation.
That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
Smuler said:
Thanks for the confirmation.
That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
No keys, as I wrote before, but a remote control to get in - and to in some way identify some settings that could be set for two different users. That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
Because I am the sole user I use the r/c which I know gives my settings and don't use the other one that confused me by reverting to factory settings when I didn't know that would happen.
I'm old school , I still call them car keys. I've the same type of remote offering "keyless entry" on my 2017 model. It's an Auto so I can't try and replicate your issue.
Reason I asked , a colleague of mine was one day suffering a delay with the start up and solved it by using the spare remote . It was an older car , 2009; it had a slot for the remote but he had "comfort access ," so as with ours he had a "keyless" entry option.
The problem was a seeming one off, so it was not pursued with BMW.
Could be a misnoma, I'm just thinking beyond the box.
So still assuming , there's no human error , if it were me I'd try your other remote.
I appreciate the irritation that if you use the spare, the car will adjust to settings you don't want.
But in my experience , soon as you use your main remote , they will adjust back as the car recognises the settings of each remote.
It might be worth the "pain" of trying to simulate the stalling with the spare ?
If it's the same , with both, the problem must lie with some other variable in how the car starts up.
To address that , all I can suggest is going to another dealer and asking them to take a look , or simply trying another car like yours and see what happens.
Reason I asked , a colleague of mine was one day suffering a delay with the start up and solved it by using the spare remote . It was an older car , 2009; it had a slot for the remote but he had "comfort access ," so as with ours he had a "keyless" entry option.
The problem was a seeming one off, so it was not pursued with BMW.
Could be a misnoma, I'm just thinking beyond the box.
So still assuming , there's no human error , if it were me I'd try your other remote.
I appreciate the irritation that if you use the spare, the car will adjust to settings you don't want.
But in my experience , soon as you use your main remote , they will adjust back as the car recognises the settings of each remote.
It might be worth the "pain" of trying to simulate the stalling with the spare ?
If it's the same , with both, the problem must lie with some other variable in how the car starts up.
To address that , all I can suggest is going to another dealer and asking them to take a look , or simply trying another car like yours and see what happens.
Thanks and I do know that settings change according to which remote control is used - I was just explaining why I don't know if it happens with the other one!
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
The local dealer is quite large with branches in several towns so finding another will not be easy.
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
The local dealer is quite large with branches in several towns so finding another will not be easy.
Your still under warranty, so this is an alternative.
why not call out Mondial / Allianz , your BMW rescue people.
It's arguably a safety issue, car not restarting quick enough.
Make sure it's a BMW Technician that comes out to your home. If you say you're not in a rush , that'll be easier. You don't want a local agent.
Tech will then run as good a diagnostic as your local dealer will and if they are as good as the guy I have local to me, will explore the issue thoroughly and check with HQ if not able to answer.
Up to you , but if Tech is concerned , he'll get car to local dealer and Mondial policy will give you a rental. Usually easier and better than a courtesy car.
In my experience work on a recovered car is prioritised over an ordinary booking.
Don't do this on a weekend as I'm not sure if Techs work.
why not call out Mondial / Allianz , your BMW rescue people.
It's arguably a safety issue, car not restarting quick enough.
Make sure it's a BMW Technician that comes out to your home. If you say you're not in a rush , that'll be easier. You don't want a local agent.
Tech will then run as good a diagnostic as your local dealer will and if they are as good as the guy I have local to me, will explore the issue thoroughly and check with HQ if not able to answer.
Up to you , but if Tech is concerned , he'll get car to local dealer and Mondial policy will give you a rental. Usually easier and better than a courtesy car.
In my experience work on a recovered car is prioritised over an ordinary booking.
Don't do this on a weekend as I'm not sure if Techs work.
A couple of things spring to mind:
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off?
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition.
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off?
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition.
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately
My responses added in bold
Elysium said:
A couple of things spring to mind:
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
Allan L said:
My responses added in bold
In all honesty, Allan, you seem to know everything about what's happening, so I'll just leave you to it.Elysium said:
A couple of things spring to mind:
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
I just experimented with stalling our similar age manual F55 Mini Cooper D. As soon as the clutch is depressed after the stall, the engine restarts itself, and I'm surprised the F31 doesn't do the same. As already suggested, if you can replicate the problem, and demonstrate to the dealer that it doesn't happen on their similar car, it becomes their problem.
I do recognise the problem of stalling small engine diesel cars from hiring cars in France about 10-15 years ago. At the time I had large petrol-engined cars, so I was in the habit of selecting second gear if still moving, even very slowly. This would often cause a small diesel engine to stall since without the turbo they are completely gutless.
I do recognise the problem of stalling small engine diesel cars from hiring cars in France about 10-15 years ago. At the time I had large petrol-engined cars, so I was in the habit of selecting second gear if still moving, even very slowly. This would often cause a small diesel engine to stall since without the turbo they are completely gutless.
I think that 335d is leaving "stop-start" active and that's what I have been forced to do - but as I explained earlier I prefer to inhibit "stop-start" as its normal operation is unsettling to the (well this) older driver!
ETA I hired a Fiat Panda 1100cc diesel in Italy some years ago and I don't remember a similar problem, so it isn't that I manage to stall all small diesels! Mind you, as you'd expect of an Italian car, it did go remarkably well in whichever (correct) gear I needed!
ETA I hired a Fiat Panda 1100cc diesel in Italy some years ago and I don't remember a similar problem, so it isn't that I manage to stall all small diesels! Mind you, as you'd expect of an Italian car, it did go remarkably well in whichever (correct) gear I needed!
Edited by Allan L on Monday 24th July 15:03
Allan L said:
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
Using my normal remote control, I had a go at this today and stalled it a few times without trouble and of course it restarted first press of the button every time. That being the case I felt there was no point in trying the other remote control.Allan L said:
.... In every other car I've driven one can restart as soon as one can reach the key, but this car's press-button seems to be locked-out for some time before it lets you restart....
I drive a 2013, F30, 320d (manual) which should be like yours mechanically speaking.Firstly I don't have a problem with stalling so if it is an issue in your car you may need to get it checked out.
Secondly, in relation to the stall/restart problem you may not have a problem: You will be aware that the button on the dash does a couple of functions in succession, The normal sequence is: first press = ON, second press = OFF. So if you have started your car and done some driving the next press of the button will turn it off. If you stall the car and press the button you are turning off the "ignition" and you will need to go through the full start procedure again to restart, ie: press the clutcch, select nutral and press the button.
If you really want to use the stop/start button in a stall situation you could try over-riding it which you can do by pressing the over-ride button. It is situated just above the stop/start button in my car. In my case if I stall the engine I just let the stop/start system do the restart, it's quicker than pressing the button.
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