Z4M handling issues
Discussion
I have had a 07 Z4M for 3 years now, before it I had MX5's in some guise or other for a good 10 years.
I definitely got spoilt rotten handling wise with the MX5's, especially the last one I had for 6 years with upgraded suspension and lightened everything.
I love my Z4M's engine, I love the looks and the interior, I cannot get on with the handling how ever. I have swapped the tyres for Pilot Sports as needed and it has improved slightly, but on the latest early morning hoon out it really cemented in me that whilst the car is fast, and handles well, its version of handling is not for me. It is a car that likes brute force, not a scalpel like my old cars, and for the kind of road driving I do, getting the back end out and forcing yourself round corners is not fun on British roads, never mind how crashy over bumps it is.
I don't want to change it for a lot of reasons, its a really good example and its options are great, but I think I am going to have to unless someone can suggest to me some handling mods that might improve things? I am thinking of changing to a Boxster S of the same age or maybe slightly newer, which from what little test driving I have done and all the user and journalist reviews have said, is much more my kind of car.
I definitely got spoilt rotten handling wise with the MX5's, especially the last one I had for 6 years with upgraded suspension and lightened everything.
I love my Z4M's engine, I love the looks and the interior, I cannot get on with the handling how ever. I have swapped the tyres for Pilot Sports as needed and it has improved slightly, but on the latest early morning hoon out it really cemented in me that whilst the car is fast, and handles well, its version of handling is not for me. It is a car that likes brute force, not a scalpel like my old cars, and for the kind of road driving I do, getting the back end out and forcing yourself round corners is not fun on British roads, never mind how crashy over bumps it is.
I don't want to change it for a lot of reasons, its a really good example and its options are great, but I think I am going to have to unless someone can suggest to me some handling mods that might improve things? I am thinking of changing to a Boxster S of the same age or maybe slightly newer, which from what little test driving I have done and all the user and journalist reviews have said, is much more my kind of car.
Me too. Three years in to ownership with my Z4M - same as you. Love the looks, engine, size, concept - but the handling just doesn't give me confidence. At times it feels a little dangerous on roads with odd camber. And that's despite the crashiness. I used to do 10000 miles a year in it but since buying an M140i a year ago I've only done 1000 miles in the Z. The 140 is so easy to drive quickly on A and B roads, is soooo compliant and makes me remember why I like BMWs so much and why I've had about 15 over the last 20 years. Like you, I want to keep the Z but desperately want to improve the handling. I don't want to lower as I don't want anything harsher than it is at the moment and I don't want to run CSLs for similar reasons. So - how can I turn it in to the car it's crying out to be? What suspension choices are there to make it into a safe, sharp, predictable, compliant handler?
I have driven Boxters and found them to be rather sterile and frankly quite boring
Get the geo set up properly and make sure all the suspension parts are in good order
Also i find if I drop the tyre pressures a wee bit to 2.1 bar all round it feels more predictable
In the dry I think it handles well although it can feel a bit nervous on poor B roads
Not sure what else will give you that sense of occasion for that kind of money TBH
Not forgetting that it won't depreciate -not many other 10 yo cars you can say that of
If you want lancet type handling then it has to be lotus or caterham IMHO
Get the geo set up properly and make sure all the suspension parts are in good order
Also i find if I drop the tyre pressures a wee bit to 2.1 bar all round it feels more predictable
In the dry I think it handles well although it can feel a bit nervous on poor B roads
Not sure what else will give you that sense of occasion for that kind of money TBH
Not forgetting that it won't depreciate -not many other 10 yo cars you can say that of
If you want lancet type handling then it has to be lotus or caterham IMHO
I had a Z4M for 2 years and I do wonder what BMW was thinking when they signed the suspension settings off. It might be fine on billiard table smooth roads but not on real world/British roads.
A proper geo set-up can work wonders. I was getting wheelspin in a straight line in the wet at 70 mph - tamed by the traction control but unnerving just the same. Rear cambers and toe were found to be uneven and the steering angle sensor was off as well which must have confused the stability control system.
KW V3s also helped in that bounce and rebound could be softened for road use.
A proper geo set-up can work wonders. I was getting wheelspin in a straight line in the wet at 70 mph - tamed by the traction control but unnerving just the same. Rear cambers and toe were found to be uneven and the steering angle sensor was off as well which must have confused the stability control system.
KW V3s also helped in that bounce and rebound could be softened for road use.
Despite having a decent test drive before I bought mine, I was a bit surprised as how much more twitchy/skittish it was than my e34 M5s (one on EDC suspension, the latter one on Bilsteins).
Went to drift around a corner I know well at Castle Combe (Quarry), where I can normally hold the M5s at a nice angle all the way around. Got the Z4MC warmed up with a few sighting laps and then flicked it into Quarry like I normally do...then I was facing the opposite direction!
A few more attempts...now expecting the rapid change of angle...and I was still either making the tiniest of drifts or ending up facing the wrong way.
Spent the rest of the track day just going fast instead.
Have done a couple of 'drift' days at the Oulton Park rally stage, a few track days at Oulton & Cadwell, done a fair few Ring laps (7 years, 2-3 trips a year, 25-40 laps a trip) and put 140,000 road miles on it, so am more comfortable with it's handling, but I'd still happily take the progressive/soft handling of the e34 over it.
It's also much more work on a 'fast road' trip than the M5, as I have to keep a very careful eye out for bumps, potholes, and (when running 19" CSLs) I had to be careful of cats eyes on tight corners.
I assume the Z4MR is better handling/more compliant due to the lesser torsional rigidity, but my Bilstein B16/PSS10 have made a hell of a difference, and I drive almost everywhere with them on their softest setting...only tweaking them slightly for different circuits.
Went to drift around a corner I know well at Castle Combe (Quarry), where I can normally hold the M5s at a nice angle all the way around. Got the Z4MC warmed up with a few sighting laps and then flicked it into Quarry like I normally do...then I was facing the opposite direction!
A few more attempts...now expecting the rapid change of angle...and I was still either making the tiniest of drifts or ending up facing the wrong way.
Spent the rest of the track day just going fast instead.
Have done a couple of 'drift' days at the Oulton Park rally stage, a few track days at Oulton & Cadwell, done a fair few Ring laps (7 years, 2-3 trips a year, 25-40 laps a trip) and put 140,000 road miles on it, so am more comfortable with it's handling, but I'd still happily take the progressive/soft handling of the e34 over it.
It's also much more work on a 'fast road' trip than the M5, as I have to keep a very careful eye out for bumps, potholes, and (when running 19" CSLs) I had to be careful of cats eyes on tight corners.
I assume the Z4MR is better handling/more compliant due to the lesser torsional rigidity, but my Bilstein B16/PSS10 have made a hell of a difference, and I drive almost everywhere with them on their softest setting...only tweaking them slightly for different circuits.
I found my E92 M3 really easy to slide and it had a really good chassis, but my Z4M just never felt right and I didn't feel confident in it, I trusted my Cerbera more and that's saying something, the Z4M sadly has a poor chassis and a terrible suspension set up and its a massive shame because most of the ingredients are there.
Beedub said:
i promise OP some well spent money on new suspension components and you will not recognise the car, predictable, fun, with you all the way and Very fast... The platform is excellent and very stiff in both cases respectively..... sadly the needed parts are expensive.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/suspension-kits/car/bmw/z4m/2006/3-2/bilstein-b12-pro-kit-suspension-kit-with-bilstein-b8-shock-absorbers-lowers-front-20mm-and-rear-10mm - something like this?OP - I don't have much to add on the posts above but as I've owned both the Z4MR and Z4MC I'd say that getting rid of the car for this 'fault' is not the right thing to do, you will (as I found out) regret it when it comes down to it. A good geo set up will go along way to making the car a good fast road machine but as others have pointed out it's not something to drift lightly (my old e39 M5 was awesome in the wet whereas I'd never take the TC off on the Z4MC). I've not gone down the full coilover route but I have the H&R springs and a neutral set up and I find it's great and very confidence inspiring compared to standard. New rubber will help massively but at the end of the day the ride is still bloody firm, but I'm reasonably young, I don't do many miles and it makes a nice change from the family bus when I get to drive it!
GordonL said:
I fitted eibach springs and billstein shocks last year, totally transformed the Z form a scary handful to a joy. I've had 3 well sorted MX5s previously and the Z is now at least as good as a 5 now. Frankly I wish I had done it sooner, I'm shocked at how much better the car is now..
That's interesting - what model numbers? Why would aftermarket be better? What is different? I must say my Z4M can be a bit wearing on poor surfaces. In contrast on smooth, well surfaced hot French roads it was wonderful.tjlazer said:
OP - I don't have much to add on the posts above but as I've owned both the Z4MR and Z4MC I'd say that getting rid of the car for this 'fault' is not the right thing to do
I understand that the handling characteristics are not a fault so to speak, but its a kind of handling that I just don't get along with, especially when fast road driving. (on a smooth track its much more acceptable) But the majority of my fun driving is road driving, and I barely do track days anymore.From talking to other people, it looks like I'm going to have to change it to get what I truly want out of a sports car.
tjlazer said:
A good geo set up will go along way to making the car a good fast road machine but as others have pointed out it's not something to drift lightly (my old e39 M5 was awesome in the wet whereas I'd never take the TC off on the Z4MC).
Whereas I never drove the Z4MR with the TC on as I felt like it cut in a lot. That said, I bought it with ditchfinders on and the car was good for 3rd gear powerslides in the wet. Sure, it was more involving and less easy to drive on the limit than my previous M3, but that made it more of a challenge.
I guess it comes down to everyone's definition or preference for the style of handling. The Z4MR feels closer to an M3 in how it handles than to a Boxster or Evora. It's more bruiser than delicate handler.
bennyboysvuk said:
tjlazer said:
A good geo set up will go along way to making the car a good fast road machine but as others have pointed out it's not something to drift lightly (my old e39 M5 was awesome in the wet whereas I'd never take the TC off on the Z4MC).
Whereas I never drove the Z4MR with the TC on as I felt like it cut in a lot. That said, I bought it with ditchfinders on and the car was good for 3rd gear powerslides in the wet. Sure, it was more involving and less easy to drive on the limit than my previous M3, but that made it more of a challenge.
I guess it comes down to everyone's definition or preference for the style of handling. The Z4MR feels closer to an M3 in how it handles than to a Boxster or Evora. It's more bruiser than delicate handler.
For me personally the handling is just as I want it, but then I like oversteer. The ride on the other hand is very harsh on my local minor roads.
The traction/DSC settings are intrusive but reassuringly effective in the wet, no-one has mentioned that you can have 'M Track' added which gives a half way setting to the stability control. This is ideal for circumstances when you'd prefer not to risk a spin or slide but still want to feel the car moving beneath you a little.
Huge thread on it here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am...
Find an owner who can do this in your local area, get them to load it on to the car and give it a try, you can always return to standard if you don't like it.
Many owners have reported ride and handling improvements with aftermarket suspension. It sounds like you love the car apart from the ride and handling so it seems a shame to sell because of it (the Boxster is not perfect in other areas either). The standard dampers you have are coming on ten years old anyway, why not keep them and put to one side, fit quality aftermarket units (KW V3 so you have some adjustment too) and then swap back come re-sale time?
Cheers, Dave
The traction/DSC settings are intrusive but reassuringly effective in the wet, no-one has mentioned that you can have 'M Track' added which gives a half way setting to the stability control. This is ideal for circumstances when you'd prefer not to risk a spin or slide but still want to feel the car moving beneath you a little.
Huge thread on it here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am...
Find an owner who can do this in your local area, get them to load it on to the car and give it a try, you can always return to standard if you don't like it.
Many owners have reported ride and handling improvements with aftermarket suspension. It sounds like you love the car apart from the ride and handling so it seems a shame to sell because of it (the Boxster is not perfect in other areas either). The standard dampers you have are coming on ten years old anyway, why not keep them and put to one side, fit quality aftermarket units (KW V3 so you have some adjustment too) and then swap back come re-sale time?
Cheers, Dave
GordonL said:
I fitted eibach springs and billstein shocks last year, totally transformed the Z form a scary handful to a joy. I've had 3 well sorted MX5s previously and the Z is now at least as good as a 5 now. Frankly I wish I had done it sooner, I'm shocked at how much better the car is now..
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