Z4M handling issues
Discussion
I have found a decent review of the Z4M coupe if you are thinking of buying one:
https://youtu.be/CbE2BC97Wh4
https://youtu.be/CbE2BC97Wh4
I bought my Z4M Coupe in December, complete with 19" CSL Replica wheels, spacers and H & R coil-overs and am still in the process of getting it how I'd like it to be (I previously ran 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years).
Now the spacers are gone and the coil-overs are as high as they will go I can get over speed bumps without grounding or arches rubbing, but I can't help thinking the coil-overs only work well on a smooth road surface - which is quite rare in the UK!
Any mid-corner bumps just get the TC light flashing.
But I hope I'll get there - the S54 engine and the stunning shape make it worth the effort!
Now the spacers are gone and the coil-overs are as high as they will go I can get over speed bumps without grounding or arches rubbing, but I can't help thinking the coil-overs only work well on a smooth road surface - which is quite rare in the UK!
Any mid-corner bumps just get the TC light flashing.
But I hope I'll get there - the S54 engine and the stunning shape make it worth the effort!
The handling is VERY underated on these, it's predictable if a tad understeery u stock form, turn in is sharp, body roll minimal, oversteer with lsd is predictable, I just think most people can't get used to the seating position over the rear wheels with the long bonnet, makes it feel like your driving a speedboat.
Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
Jonstar said:
The handling is VERY underated on these, it's predictable if a tad understeery u stock form, turn in is sharp, body roll minimal, oversteer with lsd is predictable, I just think most people can't get used to the seating position over the rear wheels with the long bonnet, makes it feel like your driving a speedboat.
Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
Having owned both, a CSL is immeasurably better handling than the Z4M Coupe. The Z4M ties itself in knots very easily over undulating roads/tracks.Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Jonstar said:
The handling is VERY underated on these, it's predictable if a tad understeery u stock form, turn in is sharp, body roll minimal, oversteer with lsd is predictable, I just think most people can't get used to the seating position over the rear wheels with the long bonnet, makes it feel like your driving a speedboat.
Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
Having owned both, a CSL is immeasurably better handling than the Z4M Coupe. The Z4M ties itself in knots very easily over undulating roads/tracks.Having been in a standard one on track they are just mega and not far off CSL's standard form (tyres aside).
Have you guys mentioned the brakes yet?
Oh your driving fast, let me assist you with more aggressive braking, but I'll forget about it on the next corner.
And floating calipers?! What were they thinking.
Saying that, I still have stock brakes. Prices get silly against the price of the car.
Oh your driving fast, let me assist you with more aggressive braking, but I'll forget about it on the next corner.
And floating calipers?! What were they thinking.
Saying that, I still have stock brakes. Prices get silly against the price of the car.
illmonkey said:
Have you guys mentioned the brakes yet?
Oh your driving fast, let me assist you with more aggressive braking, but I'll forget about it on the next corner.
And floating calipers?! What were they thinking.
Saying that, I still have stock brakes. Prices get silly against the price of the car.
I wasn't blown away by the brakes to be fair, but the floating calipers were much worse in the E92 M3 I had because of the extra weight. I had some proper scary moments in that when I needed to use them really hard! Oh your driving fast, let me assist you with more aggressive braking, but I'll forget about it on the next corner.
And floating calipers?! What were they thinking.
Saying that, I still have stock brakes. Prices get silly against the price of the car.
The AP Racing brakes I had previously on my Cerbera(standard fit on the car) spoilt me a fair bit, plus it is a much lighter car than the Z4M/E92 M3. Although the TVR didn't have ABS so you had to be very mindful of them locking up at lower speeds(which they did quite a few times). They were very good at high speed though.
Planman said:
The Z4M does seem to attract very contrasting views on the ride/handling. Each to their own opinion I guess.
I remember following a Z4M down a country road a couple of years before I bought one(I was in a Mondeo V6), and it left me for dead and the handling looked great to me in fairness. I wonder if they vary quite a lot from car to car, or the one I followed had-had the suspension upgraded. My Z4M(Roadster) wasn't great at all for me ride/suspension wise. However my 370Z(Roadster) isn't fantastic either(although not as bad as the Z4M). So in my experience the Roadster bit seems to be the issue, but I've not driven a Z4M Coupe or 370Z Coupe to compare though.
They are the same brakes as the CSL, doesn't make them good. BMW's flagship M car at the time and they put floaters on, a bit mad to me.
I don't tend to drive mine fast anymore, I save that for the track in the 182 (Brembo 4 pots btw!), so I'm not overly concerned, especially when a set of good calipers plus discs and pads can run near £2k.
I find my Z is fine for most driving, but does struggle a bit on the uneven roads, I get pulled about a bit. I'd love to sort it properly, as I never plan on selling, but I can't justify the cost
I don't tend to drive mine fast anymore, I save that for the track in the 182 (Brembo 4 pots btw!), so I'm not overly concerned, especially when a set of good calipers plus discs and pads can run near £2k.
I find my Z is fine for most driving, but does struggle a bit on the uneven roads, I get pulled about a bit. I'd love to sort it properly, as I never plan on selling, but I can't justify the cost
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Having owned both, a CSL is immeasurably better handling than the Z4M Coupe. The Z4M ties itself in knots very easily over undulating roads/tracks.
I’m talking just from a raw speed perspective they are actually not much difference when you take the tyre advantage out. In terms of weight its midway between a standard m3 and CSL with brakes from the csl and a stiffer body than both so its not surprising really.A very useful thread for me as I'm trying to work out what to do with mine. 
With the 19" CSL Reps fitted with MPSS tyres grip isn't an issue this time of year, but maybe the stiff shell combined with my firm H & R coil-overs explains why I'm having traction issues on anything other than a smooth surface!
But my car came with full a set of Eibach springs, H & R lowering springs and two sets of OE dampers from 2006!
I'm tempted to try the Eibachs as I've read mostly positive reviews of them, but I'd need some dampers. Bilstein seem to be popular, but has anyone tried anything else, like Koni? If so I'd love to know what and how they performed.
I can't see me ever needing more braking than it has for road use, but then I've only had it 6 months!
With the 19" CSL Reps fitted with MPSS tyres grip isn't an issue this time of year, but maybe the stiff shell combined with my firm H & R coil-overs explains why I'm having traction issues on anything other than a smooth surface!
But my car came with full a set of Eibach springs, H & R lowering springs and two sets of OE dampers from 2006!
I'm tempted to try the Eibachs as I've read mostly positive reviews of them, but I'd need some dampers. Bilstein seem to be popular, but has anyone tried anything else, like Koni? If so I'd love to know what and how they performed.
I can't see me ever needing more braking than it has for road use, but then I've only had it 6 months!
I’ve had my Z4M R for over ten years and here are my thoughts and findings on the ride/suspension.
As standard the front end seemed to push out on cornering, I had the geometry tweaked by an expert (nearer CSL settings) which sorted that, it now digs in at the front and is happy for the rear to come round if provoked.
The suspension is too firm for our roads, great on smooth tarmac but hops and skips on a bumpy B road which does not give confidence. Michelin ps4 tyres on the standard wheels added some comfort over the OEM contisport m3s. 19” wheels make the issue worse.
A few psi low on the tyres can blunt the ‘nimble’ handling and make it feel flat, check your pressures against the default settings and experiment. Ride quality seems better when it’s a bit harder but you start to trade grip (particularly at the front end).
I would be keen to upgrade/modernise the suspension with better and more modern parts but the jury is out on what works well for fast road use. Something with better compliance on choppy roads seems desirable,
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As standard the front end seemed to push out on cornering, I had the geometry tweaked by an expert (nearer CSL settings) which sorted that, it now digs in at the front and is happy for the rear to come round if provoked.
The suspension is too firm for our roads, great on smooth tarmac but hops and skips on a bumpy B road which does not give confidence. Michelin ps4 tyres on the standard wheels added some comfort over the OEM contisport m3s. 19” wheels make the issue worse.
A few psi low on the tyres can blunt the ‘nimble’ handling and make it feel flat, check your pressures against the default settings and experiment. Ride quality seems better when it’s a bit harder but you start to trade grip (particularly at the front end).
I would be keen to upgrade/modernise the suspension with better and more modern parts but the jury is out on what works well for fast road use. Something with better compliance on choppy roads seems desirable,
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I've only had my Z4MC since 2008, but it has covered 150,000 miles with me. It replaced a much more lardy e34 M5 - which would eat up B-roads with it's adaptive electronic suspension (when it wasn't leaking and costing £1000/corner to replace).
The roadster handles/absorbs the bumps slightly better than the coupe as it's a bit lighter and a bit floppier (relatively of course, I don't mean like a 2CV).
The coupe can dart from bump to bump, but it usually not particularly bothered by tramlining or ruts...tyre pattern/alignment seems to affect that more than the suspension.
The only real way to see what suits you, your style of driving, and the roads you drive, is to test all the options out...which is not really feasible.
All you can do is go by the opinions of others...which will never be truly objective.
For instance, I think the Bilstein B16 PSS10 kit I put on mine makes the world of difference, but if you intend to do more track days than me you might consider KW V3 or Clubsports.
I just leave mine on a fairly soft setting 90% of the time (i.e. on the road) and crank them to 9-10 for the track (or leave them at 3-4 for wet days).
The other part of the equation is mental...expect it to drive it like a Merc SLK or MX5 and you'll wish you never bought it...expect it to drive like a feral cat after your balls then you'll know what to expect.
Once it's set up correctly (on OE or aftermarket suspension - but try not to lower it more than 10mm) then attack the corners with belief and you'll either see what all the fuss is about...or hit a tree/wall.
BTW, I agree with what's been said previously...the M3 and CSL are MUCH easier to drive nearer the limits, and I'd have has a CSL if I wasn't planning on putting 20,000+ miles a year on it - and the standard M3 was too common (i.e. frequent, not 'council') for me.
The roadster handles/absorbs the bumps slightly better than the coupe as it's a bit lighter and a bit floppier (relatively of course, I don't mean like a 2CV).
The coupe can dart from bump to bump, but it usually not particularly bothered by tramlining or ruts...tyre pattern/alignment seems to affect that more than the suspension.
The only real way to see what suits you, your style of driving, and the roads you drive, is to test all the options out...which is not really feasible.
All you can do is go by the opinions of others...which will never be truly objective.
For instance, I think the Bilstein B16 PSS10 kit I put on mine makes the world of difference, but if you intend to do more track days than me you might consider KW V3 or Clubsports.
I just leave mine on a fairly soft setting 90% of the time (i.e. on the road) and crank them to 9-10 for the track (or leave them at 3-4 for wet days).
The other part of the equation is mental...expect it to drive it like a Merc SLK or MX5 and you'll wish you never bought it...expect it to drive like a feral cat after your balls then you'll know what to expect.
Once it's set up correctly (on OE or aftermarket suspension - but try not to lower it more than 10mm) then attack the corners with belief and you'll either see what all the fuss is about...or hit a tree/wall.
BTW, I agree with what's been said previously...the M3 and CSL are MUCH easier to drive nearer the limits, and I'd have has a CSL if I wasn't planning on putting 20,000+ miles a year on it - and the standard M3 was too common (i.e. frequent, not 'council') for me.
Mr Tidy said:
I bought my Z4M Coupe in December, complete with 19" CSL Replica wheels, spacers and H & R coil-overs and am still in the process of getting it how I'd like it to be (I previously ran 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years).
Now the spacers are gone and the coil-overs are as high as they will go I can get over speed bumps without grounding or arches rubbing, but I can't help thinking the coil-overs only work well on a smooth road surface - which is quite rare in the UK!
Any mid-corner bumps just get the TC light flashing.
But I hope I'll get there - the S54 engine and the stunning shape make it worth the effort!
How does it compare to your 3.0si? Now the spacers are gone and the coil-overs are as high as they will go I can get over speed bumps without grounding or arches rubbing, but I can't help thinking the coil-overs only work well on a smooth road surface - which is quite rare in the UK!
Any mid-corner bumps just get the TC light flashing.
But I hope I'll get there - the S54 engine and the stunning shape make it worth the effort!
I nearly bought a Z4M back in 2007, but after borrowing one for a couple of days realised I probably couldn't live with the ride and bough the CSL instead.
As you know, I bought a 3.0si coupe last week.
First thing was to get it onto PS4's, which has helped, but wish I had gone 225.45.18 and 255.40.18 instead of the stock 225.40 and 255.35, as the thing still doesn't have enough bite for our UK roads imho.
Front feels OK'ish, ride wise anyway, but the rear is so crashy.
I'm thinking new springs and rear dampers to start with, probably a b4, to try and make it more compliant, if that works I will put them on the front, if not, I will have to have a rethink.
gizlaroc said:
How does it compare to your 3.0si?
I nearly bought a Z4M back in 2007, but after borrowing one for a couple of days realised I probably couldn't live with the ride and bough the CSL instead.
As you know, I bought a 3.0si coupe last week.
First thing was to get it onto PS4's, which has helped, but wish I had gone 225.45.18 and 255.40.18 instead of the stock 225.40 and 255.35, as the thing still doesn't have enough bite for our UK roads imho.
Front feels OK'ish, ride wise anyway, but the rear is so crashy.
I'm thinking new springs and rear dampers to start with, probably a b4, to try and make it more compliant, if that works I will put them on the front, if not, I will have to have a rethink.
Hi there, and congratulations on getting your Z4C. I nearly bought a Z4M back in 2007, but after borrowing one for a couple of days realised I probably couldn't live with the ride and bough the CSL instead.
As you know, I bought a 3.0si coupe last week.
First thing was to get it onto PS4's, which has helped, but wish I had gone 225.45.18 and 255.40.18 instead of the stock 225.40 and 255.35, as the thing still doesn't have enough bite for our UK roads imho.
Front feels OK'ish, ride wise anyway, but the rear is so crashy.
I'm thinking new springs and rear dampers to start with, probably a b4, to try and make it more compliant, if that works I will put them on the front, if not, I will have to have a rethink.
Both my 3.0Sis were on stock M-Sport suspension the 1st at 60K miles and the 2nd on 90K, and the 1st one was definitely more controlled so a refresh might help. And people do seem to rate the Bilstein set-ups with Eibach springs.
However both my 3.0 litres were still on Bridgestone run-flats which may explain why on a smooth surface they had less grip than my M, because it is on 19" MPSS tyres! To be fair mid-corner bumps or sunken drain covers seem to affect the M as much as they did the 3 litres, but small imperfections like cats-eyes are much better in the M - although that's probably more to do with the tyres!
Ross of RBM Hampshire said he drove an M on Eibach springs and Bilsteins recently and it was far more compliant than my car so I'm starting to think I may get the Eibachs that came with the car fitted along with new dampers, but I'm not sure which ones! I was hoping to try to meet up with some other owners for a comparison, but that won't happen for a while so I'm still a bit undecided.
Maybe it's a shame I didn't try an E46 M3 before I bought, even if just for comparison purposes!
But I do remember the two M Coupes I drove before I bought mine, that I believe were on stock suspension and wheels, rode better than my 3.0Si - or my M on the H & R coil-overs.
I've read a few positive posts from people getting their Coupes alignment done nearer to M3 CSL settings, and will probably try that once I've made a decision about suspension.
I didn't realise you had run flats on your si.
I guess I am just a bit surprised how firmly damped the Z4C is for a non M car, I was presuming the 3.0si would be more about comfort than it is.
I guess I need to decide what to do, throw money at suspension, probably B4 dampers and Supplex springs, which are meant to be a little more comfortable than the Eibach, but still progressive, or move it on.
It is in lovely condition, suspension all feels super tight, interior is immaculate, seats still factory matte finish and only 60k on it, so know I won't have a problem moving it on, but I think better to do it now rather than after spending another grand on suspension that I will never see back.
I wish I could try someone else's who has already done the B4/Eibach set up, then I would know which way to go.
I guess I am just a bit surprised how firmly damped the Z4C is for a non M car, I was presuming the 3.0si would be more about comfort than it is.
I guess I need to decide what to do, throw money at suspension, probably B4 dampers and Supplex springs, which are meant to be a little more comfortable than the Eibach, but still progressive, or move it on.
It is in lovely condition, suspension all feels super tight, interior is immaculate, seats still factory matte finish and only 60k on it, so know I won't have a problem moving it on, but I think better to do it now rather than after spending another grand on suspension that I will never see back.
I wish I could try someone else's who has already done the B4/Eibach set up, then I would know which way to go.
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