The woes of V10 M5/M6 adverts!
Discussion
After some years away (a previous E60 M5 owner) ive been looking around recently for some M6's to look at with a view to getting one.
During my hours of browsing adds etc one thing really has become frustratingly clear. So many of these cars advertised have a woeful lack of information about important issues. You find yourself trapped in a ground hog day situation sending the same sets of questions to umpteen different adverts time and time again - half of which you don't even get a reply too. Maybe last time when i bought my first M5 i was just lucky to find one quite quickly? - it certainly didn't seem this bad or frustrating the first time around.
Have others encountered this? I mean surely people who own these cars already must realise that the more information provided on issues like clutch, vanos, etc etc will actually save them time. I mean its not like selling a £500 Astra is it!!
There are of course a few exceptions to the above, but the vast majority of adds (even on high end priced cars) is frankly woeful!
During my hours of browsing adds etc one thing really has become frustratingly clear. So many of these cars advertised have a woeful lack of information about important issues. You find yourself trapped in a ground hog day situation sending the same sets of questions to umpteen different adverts time and time again - half of which you don't even get a reply too. Maybe last time when i bought my first M5 i was just lucky to find one quite quickly? - it certainly didn't seem this bad or frustrating the first time around.
Have others encountered this? I mean surely people who own these cars already must realise that the more information provided on issues like clutch, vanos, etc etc will actually save them time. I mean its not like selling a £500 Astra is it!!
There are of course a few exceptions to the above, but the vast majority of adds (even on high end priced cars) is frankly woeful!
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
I don't get this - you must be wasting your own and other's time with this outdated sales technique - this must only work with gullible people.Depends what you mean by 'important issues'.
- if the seller is an entusiast and been on the relevant forums he/she may know that a fellow enthusiast will want to know about vanos & clutch
- if the seller bought the car to have fun in and is selling it a few years later never having looked at an internet forum they may be blissfully unaware of these ' important issues'
I would love to know how important these issues really are: about 36000 of E60/1/3/4 with this engine and transmission were produced worldwide. How many vanos/clutch/bearing issues reported? A few hundred? A tiny percentage.
Most of these cars are at least 7 years old now and I expect stuff to go wrong with highly strung performance machinery, wouldn't expect any seller to reassure me that nothing would go wrong.
Have long ago stopped relying on car salesmen giving me more information about a car than what I can find out on the internet or already know.
- if the seller is an entusiast and been on the relevant forums he/she may know that a fellow enthusiast will want to know about vanos & clutch
- if the seller bought the car to have fun in and is selling it a few years later never having looked at an internet forum they may be blissfully unaware of these ' important issues'
I would love to know how important these issues really are: about 36000 of E60/1/3/4 with this engine and transmission were produced worldwide. How many vanos/clutch/bearing issues reported? A few hundred? A tiny percentage.
Most of these cars are at least 7 years old now and I expect stuff to go wrong with highly strung performance machinery, wouldn't expect any seller to reassure me that nothing would go wrong.
Have long ago stopped relying on car salesmen giving me more information about a car than what I can find out on the internet or already know.
I sort of see what you mean OP, reams of guff about 'formula 1' engines, 222 made in rhd, 7speed gearbox blah blah blah blah; surely anyone interested in these cars knows all this and would much rather see cold hard facts re. clutches discs/pads etc. Do the general public(not trying to be condescending) see an M5/6 and think 'Wow!! , Formula 1 I need to get me one of those'?
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Number of owners isn't really what i was referring too - more details of important items or work within the service history. Most adds contain little or no info.Not unless of course people just don't even consider this and buy one anyway! (and i am sure more than few probably do.)
Considering the amount of time wasters you get when trying to sell a car privately, I suspect that most sellers won’t reply to a long email of questions without any sense of whether it’s just another waste of time.
When selling privately I’ve always found that those who are interested actually pick up the phone for a chat about the car. This has especially been the case with M cars that I have sold before (3xM3 and 1xM4).
Perhaps try calling the sellers. Good luck with the hunt.
When selling privately I’ve always found that those who are interested actually pick up the phone for a chat about the car. This has especially been the case with M cars that I have sold before (3xM3 and 1xM4).
Perhaps try calling the sellers. Good luck with the hunt.
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Is anyone else struggling to understand what this even means?jamoor said:
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Is anyone else struggling to understand what this even means?For some strange reason people seem to think they can judge a cars condition by looking at the number of owners and they get hung about it having 6 owners over a 10 year period without having the slightest clue how they have looked after it. Hence the specialist prefers to not add that bit of info and get you to come and see the car instead to judge its condition. (which is common sense and any serious buyer would want to do that)
But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
Wills2 said:
For some strange reason people seem to think they can judge a cars condition by looking at the number of owners and they get hung about it having 6 owners over a 10 year period without having the slightest clue how they have looked after it. Hence the specialist prefers to not add that bit of info and get you to come and see the car instead to judge its condition. (which is common sense and any serious buyer would want to do that)
But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
Sounds kind of shady no? Give people all the relevant facts and let them decide for themselves?But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
Wills2 said:
I'm sure they do to someone they think wants to buy the car.
Why do they even need to ask anyway? These days you can check everything from the reg, do they hide the reg numbers of the car too?Really all just sounds of old school car salesmanship to me (that's not a good thing). By being transparent you're prequalifying customers into the sales process, saving everyones time.
When I used to be in the car sales game (and now when I sell my own cars) I scan every document that I have in and put it on the eBay/PH advert. The only reason someone would call would be to come and view it rather than ask any further questions as they were already answered.
Edited by jamoor on Sunday 19th November 12:29
Wills2 said:
For some strange reason people seem to think they can judge a cars condition by looking at the number of owners and they get hung about it having 6 owners over a 10 year period without having the slightest clue how they have looked after it. Hence the specialist prefers to not add that bit of info and get you to come and see the car instead to judge its condition. (which is common sense and any serious buyer would want to do that)
But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
I do kind of agree with that - its easy to fixate on all these different issues as must haves.But people put themselves in straight jackets by drawing up a list of must haves, must be less than XXk miles, must be less than X owners etc....when all that matters is the condition/price of the car.
Ultimately its always a compromise to some degree. A proper in person inspection and test drive is just as important as what an advert does (or doesn't) say.
I guess basic and poorly written ads just make the searching process really tiresome....
Easternlight said:
jamoor said:
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Is anyone else struggling to understand what this even means?80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Do you not find the opposite happens? When I see adverts like this I completely avoid them assuming the dealer knows nothing about the car or its history and thus is not the seller for me. Usually the dealers who throw all the history away bar the actual service book and latest MOT.
I love the way car sellers think you sit around all day with time to phone them during office hours, often getting answer machines or promises of calls back that don't happen during free time, or look at cars that may not be right on their weekend free time.
If dealers don't want trouble selling a high owner or mileage car at what appears to be a high price, then they shouldn't buy it to then hide that fact from a buyer who 'has to' phone or travel miles and waste their time to find out *basic and fundamental* information.
No reg number is a number one give away of a time wasting seller ime.
Suddenly the entire history is shrouded, like when tax elapsed, so how long it's been stood around, mot history to see what issues the car has had, a hpi check before driving at huge time/money cost to view a car that might be dodgy.
In the info age, hiding any info just seems counter intuitive to actually selling a car.
If you think info might put buyers off, it'll certainly put them off to find out after travelling miles and wasting a day of free time, or taking time out to ring up to get simple info that'd go in the advert.
All the cars I sold privately were full disclosure, super high res pics all over the car, a sensible price, never had anyone haggle, and had people fall over themselves to come buy the day after advert posted.
There is no reason to hold info back behind phone calls or viewings.
If dealers don't want trouble selling a high owner or mileage car at what appears to be a high price, then they shouldn't buy it to then hide that fact from a buyer who 'has to' phone or travel miles and waste their time to find out *basic and fundamental* information.
No reg number is a number one give away of a time wasting seller ime.
Suddenly the entire history is shrouded, like when tax elapsed, so how long it's been stood around, mot history to see what issues the car has had, a hpi check before driving at huge time/money cost to view a car that might be dodgy.
In the info age, hiding any info just seems counter intuitive to actually selling a car.
If you think info might put buyers off, it'll certainly put them off to find out after travelling miles and wasting a day of free time, or taking time out to ring up to get simple info that'd go in the advert.
All the cars I sold privately were full disclosure, super high res pics all over the car, a sensible price, never had anyone haggle, and had people fall over themselves to come buy the day after advert posted.
There is no reason to hold info back behind phone calls or viewings.
80quattro said:
I work for a sports car specialist, and whilst we advertise our cars with lots of detailed photos and service history, we deliberately do not advertise number of owners, as we want people to call us rather than just browse our adverts.
Does that get applied to mileage as well?There's nothing worse than an advert with no mileage.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff