Will I hate an e92 m3

Will I hate an e92 m3

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cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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Leon R said:
MikeGoodwin said:
Well had it 5 months+ now and at the time I bought it I thought cerb4.5lee was just someone who didn't gel with his car and had a sour taste about it. Well I dont think I have either. I've read many of cerb4.5lee's comments on this M forum about the e92 m3 and what he says is spot on really.

That saying 'jack of all trades master of none' is accurate to describe the e92 m3. It feels an 8/10ths car across the board, so when you want 10/10ths out of it it doesn't deliver the goods.

I could drive the Megane RS round some back roads in anger and it was epic, but the M3 just doesnt deliver the same thrill, it handles really well but it doesnt fill me with confidence or feel like I can really lean into a corner hard, but I am sure the speedo in the M3 would read higher than the Megane RS in the corners, in fact I know it does. I also dont rate the steering much, there might be feedback etc but it feels sloppy to me and not direct atall. Sport servo is awful. Its quite a slow rack as well either in comfort or sport. The steering in the Megane was electric but it was really excellent.

The S65 is incredible but the novelty of 8000rpm has worn off a bit you realise the cars a bit too heavy for the S65 to drag around and unless its being absolutely nailed to the redline which is rarely possible during a daily commute and I am frequently left frustrated and feel trapped with a car I cant really use, even when I do open up the taps it can feel underwhelming. I see why people do the exhaust mod so much as well. Its also very quick in terms of figures, other E92 owners (let alone M4 owners!) will know just how easy it is to get into jellybean territory.

Not sure what to do with it yet. I may give it another 6 months but tbh, dont know where ill go from here. I might go back to a Megane else itll be a 2 car thing for me, a daily and a lotus, or Caterham.
Really sorry you haven't gelled with it, it's a real shame as yours is a very nice example too.

I love mine but I think that is helped a lot by two things:

1) Mine is a second car alongside a hatch that does all the mundane stuff in life meaning the M3 only gets used when I want to drive.

2) Mine is a DCT with a few upgrades meaning more power and more torque plus the servotronic update.
I think the second car bit you mention is the key to it. Mine only lasted me 10k miles/10 months as my daily, whereas my brother in law uses his as a second car(E93) and he's had it 6 years now.

Using the E92 M3 daily shows its flaws up too much and the frustration sets in, whereas if its used occasionally and on the right roads then you can really enjoy what its good at.

number 46

1,019 posts

247 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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cerb4.5lee said:
I think the second car bit you mention is the key to it. Mine only lasted me 10k miles/10 months as my daily, whereas my brother in law uses his as a second car(E93) and he's had it 6 years now.

Using the E92 M3 daily shows its flaws up too much and the frustration sets in, whereas if its used occasionally and on the right roads then you can really enjoy what its good at.
I don't agree, I think that it is really a very usable everyday car, 4 real seats, a boot and the rear seats fold down. It can be just dull and normal if you want to be but is more than fast enough to thill when you want that too. I use mine every day and do not find it a problem. When cold, I drive it in D and its just a normal car, once warmed up and on a bit of clear road I go too manual, out of town I hit the M and its just a rocket ship!!! The only slight flaws for me are the brakes and the fuel consumption.

ArsE92

21,007 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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number 46 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I think the second car bit you mention is the key to it. Mine only lasted me 10k miles/10 months as my daily, whereas my brother in law uses his as a second car(E93) and he's had it 6 years now.

Using the E92 M3 daily shows its flaws up too much and the frustration sets in, whereas if its used occasionally and on the right roads then you can really enjoy what its good at.
I don't agree, I think that it is really a very usable everyday car, 4 real seats, a boot and the rear seats fold down. It can be just dull and normal if you want to be but is more than fast enough to thill when you want that too. I use mine every day and do not find it a problem. When cold, I drive it in D and its just a normal car, once warmed up and on a bit of clear road I go too manual, out of town I hit the M and its just a rocket ship!!! The only slight flaws for me are the brakes and the fuel consumption.
Completely agree. It does pootling just as well as a 320d (admittedly without the economy) but when you press the (M)ental button it's a different car altogether. Brakes are pants though.

tejr

3,101 posts

163 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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Or perhaps the other way round?

I use mine on the odd occasion as well as the nursery run. I actually find it feels more special on the nursery run as it does everything so well. Whereas on the 'odd' occasion it does the job but never fully feels special.. I think thats mainly down to the (lack of) exhaust noise.. Mod booked in for Sunday though, lets see after that.

But agreed on the point that the car is too heavy for the S65 in most situations. In fact, I find the whole car too heavy when pushing along in general.

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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tejr said:
Or perhaps the other way round?

I use mine on the odd occasion as well as the nursery run. I actually find it feels more special on the nursery run as it does everything so well. Whereas on the 'odd' occasion it does the job but never fully feels special.. I think thats mainly down to the (lack of) exhaust noise.. Mod booked in for Sunday though, lets see after that.

But agreed on the point that the car is too heavy for the S65 in most situations. In fact, I find the whole car too heavy when pushing along in general.
Yes and I think its a difficult one, because I'd imagine most wouldn't see it as special enough to use as a second/occasional car. It was clearly built as a usable daily, which leaves it stuck between a rock and a hard place in many ways.

I think with it trying to do everything is its downfall sadly for me, although many love the fact it can do everything and that's why it has so many fans. As you mention...the weight of it really spoilt my enjoyment of it overall, but the weight does give it excellent very high speed stability.

I much prefer lighter cars and that's not the M3's fault. You always feel the weight of it under braking and going quickly into corners, but I really liked it on clear open long roads where you could keep your foot in.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and I think its a difficult one, because I'd imagine most wouldn't see it as special enough to use as a second/occasional car. It was clearly built as a usable daily, which leaves it stuck between a rock and a hard place in many ways.

I think with it trying to do everything is its downfall sadly for me, although many love the fact it can do everything and that's why it has so many fans. As you mention...the weight of it really spoilt my enjoyment of it overall, but the weight does give it excellent very high speed stability.

I much prefer lighter cars and that's not the M3's fault. You always feel the weight of it under braking and going quickly into corners, but I really liked it on clear open long roads where you could keep your foot in.
E46 M3 is 1565kg
E92 M3 is 1580kg

According to fast maps website
So nothing in it

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
E46 M3 is 1565kg
E92 M3 is 1580kg

According to fast maps website
So nothing in it
I thought my Z4M felt heavy though and that's a little bit lighter than both of them. I like cars to be around the 1100kg-1200kg mark, the two favourites I've had being my 200sx/Cerbera. Bmw's are more cruiser in style due to the extra weight and heavy use of sound deadening, and the silent exhausts they come with as stock. smile


m999psw

266 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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Did you ever weigh the Cerb?

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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cerb4.5lee said:
Welshbeef said:
E46 M3 is 1565kg
E92 M3 is 1580kg

According to fast maps website
So nothing in it
I thought my Z4M felt heavy though and that's a little bit lighter than both of them. I like cars to be around the 1100kg-1200kg mark, the two favourites I've had being my 200sx/Cerbera. Bmw's are more cruiser in style due to the extra weight and heavy use of sound deadening, and the silent exhausts they come with as stock. smile
I’d hazard a guess that there’s some confusion there between kerb weight and dry weight. Also and often ignored difference when comparing the S54 and S65 is the torque curve. Despite being a revvy engine the S54 has a lot of torque from 2000 rpm (ina relative sense, before all the 2L TDI fans chime in ;-)

The S65 actually needs more revs in a heavier car, so the need to rev it hard is more noticeable.

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
m999psw said:
Did you ever weigh the Cerb?
When Autocar did a full road test on the Cerbera 4.5 it came out at 1178kg.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
survivalist said:
I’d hazard a guess that there’s some confusion there between kerb weight and dry weight. Also and often ignored difference when comparing the S54 and S65 is the torque curve. Despite being a revvy engine the S54 has a lot of torque from 2000 rpm (ina relative sense, before all the 2L TDI fans chime in ;-)

The S65 actually needs more revs in a heavier car, so the need to rev it hard is more noticeable.
25kg is hardly a lot of weight well it’s 1.6% more than the E46 M3

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
survivalist said:
The S65 actually needs more revs in a heavier car, so the need to rev it hard is more noticeable.
I agree with that, and I thought the S54 was more peppy lower down in my Z4M than the S65 in the M3.

m999psw

266 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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And most owners who have weighed them 1260kg.

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
m999psw said:
And most owners who have weighed them 1260kg.
That is fair enough and its still a lot less than 1580kg. The Cerbera also has 85ft-Ib more torque which certainly helps too.

rassi

2,447 posts

250 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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cerb4.5lee said:
I agree with that, and I thought the S54 was more peppy lower down in my Z4M than the S65 in the M3.
Please explain how a 3.2 litre engine with 350 nm/343 bhp can be more peppy than a 4 litre engine with 400 nm/420 bhp, even if slightly lighter?

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
rassi said:
Please explain how a 3.2 litre engine with 350 nm/343 bhp can be more peppy than a 4 litre engine with 400 nm/420 bhp, even if slightly lighter?
I just found it felt a little livelier(probably wasn't in reality). The M3 felt much stronger at the top end of the revs though compared to the Z4M to me.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
I just found it felt a little livelier(probably wasn't in reality). The M3 felt much stronger at the top end of the revs though compared to the Z4M to me.
216 bhp / tonne v 268 bhp/tonne.

E46 m3 v E92 M3.

Not remotely close

0-100mph
E92 M2 9.0 seconds
E46 M3 11.2 seconds

cerb4.5lee

30,197 posts

179 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
0-100mph
E92 M2 9.0 seconds
That sounds quite optimistic because Autocar tested the manual E92 M3 at 10.5 to 100. My Z4M just felt more peppy low down than the E92 M3 to me, not by a huge amount granted.

fido

16,752 posts

254 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
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rassi said:
Please explain how a 3.2 litre engine with 350 nm/343 bhp can be more peppy than a 4 litre engine with 400 nm/420 bhp, even if slightly lighter?
I think it's the peakier torque curve on the E46 - i'm sure someone has already done a graphical comparison before - but if you overlay the torque/weight between the two cars there isn't much in it and possibly the E46 has a bit more grunt (per weight) for some portion of the rev range. The E92 has a very flat torque curve but you need to spend alot of time >6k rpm to appreciate it. I don't personally find it lacking in torque (using the DCT) but I do drive it in that mindset .. and triple downshifts .. something you wouldn't have to do in an M2.

Edited by fido on Tuesday 22 May 22:38

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
fido said:
I think it's the peakier torque curve on the E46 - i'm sure someone has already done a graphical comparison before - but if you overlay the torque/weight between the two cars there isn't much in it and possibly the E46 has a bit more grunt (per weight) for some portion of the rev range. The E92 has a very flat torque curve but you need to spend alot of time >6k rpm to appreciate it. I don't personally find it lacking in torque (using the DCT) but I do drive it in that mindset .. and triple downshifts .. something you wouldn't have to do in an M2.

Edited by fido on Tuesday 22 May 22:38
Not a 30 Jarah F10 M5.

Chug along in 7th then WOT that’s epic