M2C or used 991/997

[Billy_Whizzzz]

I have an M2C 6MT on order but I’m now consumed by an existential car crisis in that for the same money I could have a low mileage 7MT 991, and can’t help but think I’d be crazy not to do that. Who in their right minds would chose the M2C over a 991. Alternatively a late model 997 but I’m not convinced it would deal long term with being used daily in winter that well, with mud, salt and leaf mulch coating everything. Saw an M2 this morning and couldn’t help think how ordinary they look, whereas a 911 - any 911 - looks fantastic. Other option is to keep a 997 for weekends - I have an 140i at present which is a good appliance but nothing more and given that I’m not convinced the M2 will be an event to drive at 7/10ths, I could keep the 140 for a long term hack and use the 997 on high days. Thoughts?

[Welshbeef]

Clearly you liked the M2C enough to put the order in what’s changed?

Comparing buying new v old you could get a Gallardo/Murcilago for the same or an E type etc

[Billy_Whizzzz]

Welshbeef said:

Clearly you liked the M2C enough to put the order in what’s changed?

Hadn't realised how cheap 991s are. And that a growing concern that the M2C might not feel much more special than my 140 and might in fact be annoying as a daily with too firm suspension compared to compliant 991 suspension (or adaptive in my 140).

[Phooey]

Go and sit in a 991. Or even better - go and drive a 911. I think you'll then quickly make your mind up to cancel the M2C and hunt for a good used 991. I like the M2/C, but to me it's a bit meh inside and shows it shares it's parts with a boggo BMW 1/2 series. Used I think they make good cars for the money, but at brand-new money the Used Porsche's have a lot more to offer. All IMO.

[Welshbeef]

Phooey said:

Go and sit in a 991. Or even better - go and drive a 911. I think you'll then quickly make your mind up to cancel the M2C and hunt for a good used 991. I like the M2/C, but to me it's a bit meh inside and shows it shares it's parts with a boggo BMW 1/2 series. Used I think they make good cars for the money, but at brand-new money the Used Porsche's have a lot more to offer. All IMO.

Purchase price is only one part of the ownership cost
Risk of theft higher
Porsche tax higher
Miles are far more damaging to 911’s - I recall a thread about he 997 and why so few above 70k well the market doesn’t want them (so clocking must be rife)

[v8ksn]

M2 Comp is around £50k right?

Hands down a £50k 997.2 will be a MUCH better drive.

As for longevity, the 911 is perfectly useable all year round. If you go for a PDK version then you will lose some interaction but gain everyday useablility.

If I were you, I would sell the 140 and buy a used auto M2 as a daily and have a 997.2 with a manual for the weekends.

The 991 with a manual has never appealed to me and I have never driven one so can't comment.

[Phooey]

Welshbeef said:

Purchase price is only one part of the ownership cost
Risk of theft higher
Porsche tax higher
Miles are far more damaging to 911’s - I recall a thread about he 997 and why so few above 70k well the market doesn’t want them (so clocking must be rife)

Highest 'ownership cost' is usually depreciation. I'd argue a M2 will haemorrhage money, unless you're getting a big discount off list. Think 15% min.
Risk of theft? I'm not sure why you think Porsche is higher than an M.
Porsche tax? What's that?
Miles. Ok, you don't see many big miles 911s, but everything has a price. You need to maintain a Porsche properly, and if possible extend the manufacturers warranty. I certainly wouldn't say the market doesn't want them

eta - I like the M2C, but when I spec'd one up on the back of a fag packet it came to nearly £60k otr. Now this is only IMO but at nearly £60k I would look at pushing the budget to something like a M3/4 CS.

Edited by Phooey on Sunday 4th November 19:46

[russy01]

I started off looking at e92 M3’s. Drove a couple, fell out of love of the idea and thought I had decided on an M4...

Now I’m in the same boat as you and looking at 997.2 c2s or 991 Carrera 3.4!

However talk about budget creep, 20k - 30k - 40k - 55k!

£35-40k buys a tidy M4 with low mileage from a dealer with manufacturer warranty. Yet in 3yrs time it’s going to be worth £15-20k tops?

£45-£50k buys a tidy 997.2 c2s, with no warranty from a random dealer... But, you’d hope that in 3years time it’s still worth £30-35k?

So what do you do? Let’s say the day to day running costs are the same, but the porker throws up £5k of bills in 3yrs - you’d be no worse off and had had the Porsche!

My head says the M4. More practical for what I require (short commutes and the odd blast), more modern tech, will be cheaper to run and the warranty gives peace of mind.

My heart says 997, because it’s a 911 and not a 4 series. But wonder whether the short commutes would piss it off?

Then - you say, hang on why not spend another 10k and get the 991 3.4, or another 5k and a 991 3.8?

Wife thinks M4, as unless a car is virtually brand new it’s old, st and going to cost us more to run!

Mind boggled.

Sorry, back to your case. It all depends how you are buying.. I am looking to buy cash, so am only looking at used. If you are buying cash too, then I’d say avoid the spanker M2 as it’s unlikely to be worth diddly squat in 3/4yrs? A used non CP M2 or M3/4 would be a better option?

Edited by russy01 on Sunday 4th November 19:51

[Steve Rance]

I think that an M2 is definitely good value as a drivers car at £35k ish. Once the price converges with a 997 gen 2 or a 991, I’d take the Porsche any day. Far better drivers car

[av185]

Welshbeef said:

Purchase price is only one part of the ownership cost
Risk of theft higher

BMW M cars along with Range Rover and some RS Audis are among the most stolen UK vehicles. And that is proportionate to numbers too.

Because they are easy to nick.

Porsche are not.

[Olivera]

v8ksn said:

M2 Comp is around £50k right?

Hands down a £50k 997.2 will be a MUCH better drive.

A much better drive? Really?

The M2 CS is getting a lot of plaudits. It will be 7-8 years newer than than the Porsche, probably quicker, far cheaper to run and offers a sweet RWD chassis with a locking diff (unlike the Porsche).

I do concede the Porsche is a very good alternative if OP wants a different driving experience.

[Welshbeef]

Olivera said:

A much better drive? Really?

The M2 CS is getting a lot of plaudits. It will be 7-8 years newer than than the Porsche, probably quicker, far cheaper to run and offers a sweet RWD chassis with a locking diff (unlike the Porsche).

I do concede the Porsche is a very good alternative if OP wants a different driving experience.

Does the 997.2 C2S not come with a LSD,? Surely not from a proper sports car.

[jbaddeley]

Understand your dilemma. I was tempted by a new M2C. Finally drove one last weekend and despite not being an auto fan boy it impressed, the m4 and m4c I drove back to back didn't. Porsche will have lower running costs when taking depreciation into account if the market doesn't collapse and will be feel more special. I moved from a 997.1 to a 981 CGTS, both more exciting and special than the M2. That said if I couldn't afford to run other cars an M2 is where I'd put my money for the everyday practicality. Probably a standard M2 manual at 33-35k, set of AP brakes job done. Pre competition car sounds nicer imo and not a lot slower tbh. Driven my pals a few times now and in manual guise it's a great car.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

Thanks All. Not remotely worried about theft. For what it’s worth I’d hoped the M2C would retain more of its values than a standard M2 or even a M4 as there will be fewer but I guess I see it as a keeper any way. Not interested in normal M2 as doesn’t have S55 engine. M4 too big and don’t like looks of them enough. I suspect I’ll stay with the M2C and hopefully get the 911 as well in a few years! Having said that I’m driving a 997.2 C4S and a 991 tomorrow (both manual) so who knows! I think the only thing that is worrying me in the M2 C is lack of adaptive damping as I love that at the moment and on bad roads really lets you press on.

[Steve Rance]

Olivera said:

A much better drive? Really?

The M2 CS is getting a lot of plaudits. It will be 7-8 years newer than than the Porsche, probably quicker, far cheaper to run and offers a sweet RWD chassis with a locking diff (unlike the Porsche).

I do concede the Porsche is a very good alternative if OP wants a different driving experience.

To be honest The 911 doesn’t need a Locking diff, it already has inherent traction due to its layout. The diff in the GT3 and race cars are primarily set up to settle the car under braking but that isn’t needed at road speeds. I have an M2 and am very happy with. a vanilla 911 is a better car but a decent 997 gem 2 or 991 is a lot more money.for 50k I’ll take a 911 On saying that there’s not a lot for £35k that I’d rather spend my money on

[Driver101]

I wouldn't say the M2 looks boring. It's a good looking small coupe. I wouldn't be spending £50k on a car that I wasn't convinced about.

The other think about the M2C is we already know there is superior model coming. Big discounts were given on the M2 and the same will also happen with the M2C. Sales are slow from what I've read.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

Purchase price is only one part of the ownership cost

Absolutely, depreciation is the biggest cost of all and on that score a 991 or 997 surely wins hands-down over a new M2C? Given a 911 will also feel more special to drive it's a pretty easy decision IMO....

[Theone8181]

In terms of speed and cost, I used to own a 996 turbo (part exed at at 107,000 miles as past 70,000 Porsche are very hard to shift). I now own an e92 which feels much slower and handles nowhere near as well. Cost wise my car wasn't too bad, parts aren't that expensive it's the labour that's the killer. I had 4 discs and pads on my 911 and it was a pretty reasonable 1100 (original quote was for 700 but there were lots of seized parts). Ultimately youre looking at either a souped up family car or an out and out sports car. If I hadn't needed a bigger car for kids, I'd have gone either 997.2 or 991 (with pdk). Hth your decision.

[ocrx8]

Let us know how the test drives go. Personally I’d go for a Porsche all day long

[JNW1]

Theone8181 said:

In terms of speed and cost, I used to own a 996 turbo (part exed at at 107,000 miles as past 70,000 Porsche are very hard to shift). I now own an e92 which feels much slower and handles nowhere near as well. Cost wise my car wasn't too bad, parts aren't that expensive it's the labour that's the killer. I had 4 discs and pads on my 911 and it was a pretty reasonable 1100 (original quote was for 700 but there were lots of seized parts). Ultimately youre looking at either a souped up family car or an out and out sports car. If I hadn't needed a bigger car for kids, I'd have gone either 997.2 or 991 (with pdk). Hth your decision.

I know it's a bit unfair to compare servicing costs using an independent with those from a main dealer but as we're comparing buying a used 911 with a new M2C I will!

I've got a pretty good Porsche independent close to me and for a 991 C2/C4 it's £175 for an oil change service, £290 for a 20k mile service and £390 for a 40k mile service. I reckon those prices are no worse than for my F31 335d at a BMW dealer and I imagine an M-car like an M2C would be rather more; obviously with the older 991 you're going to have to face more bills for consumable replacements (such as discs, pads, etc) but if the basic servicing isn't too expensive - and the depreciation's a lot lower - the used 911 feels like the better option financially to me....