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Vehicle
07 bmw 318D 2.0 E90
So the vehicle idles rough as fook, splitters and knocks when revved. A bit of grey ish smoke.
So initially I'm thinking easy, timing jumped.. I'll throw an engine in. So check it over out of courtersey and get a fuel pressure sensor low circuit fault.. so this shows an open circuit. Checked wiring and getting correct voltage and reference voltage at sensor. Plugged in my cheap ish diag device and also a laptop elm one and neither will show me rail pressure.
So now I'm thinking, is the sensor knackered, but usually it would still run in limp mode without it, rough but not this rough. So possible sensor and HP fuel pump, again common.
So I want to know, is there an easy way to check timing on these engines? ???
I've not ruled out engine still as I sprayed easy start in to the intake to hear it run up a little but it didn't work at all, ended up cutting out.
If timing check isn't gonna be that straight forward I guess I can do a compression check...just hoping you guys might know of an easy method to check timing.
07 bmw 318D 2.0 E90
So the vehicle idles rough as fook, splitters and knocks when revved. A bit of grey ish smoke.
So initially I'm thinking easy, timing jumped.. I'll throw an engine in. So check it over out of courtersey and get a fuel pressure sensor low circuit fault.. so this shows an open circuit. Checked wiring and getting correct voltage and reference voltage at sensor. Plugged in my cheap ish diag device and also a laptop elm one and neither will show me rail pressure.
So now I'm thinking, is the sensor knackered, but usually it would still run in limp mode without it, rough but not this rough. So possible sensor and HP fuel pump, again common.
So I want to know, is there an easy way to check timing on these engines? ???
I've not ruled out engine still as I sprayed easy start in to the intake to hear it run up a little but it didn't work at all, ended up cutting out.
If timing check isn't gonna be that straight forward I guess I can do a compression check...just hoping you guys might know of an easy method to check timing.
Working on a similar 06 plate one (well I think the engine is similar). I've looked at the variable lift system as well - not unusual for the lift motor to cock things up.
Mine is cranking really slowly, even with a fuly charged battery and jumper pack. Has spark, and fuel, won't run on easy start. I suspect the engine timing, but it's a tricky job to check.
Fortunately the timing chain is in the front, so it should be fairly easy to change.
In addition, in the diesels at least, the engine normally breaks the rocker arms, rather than bend the valves, so again a bit cheaper to fix.
Mine is cranking really slowly, even with a fuly charged battery and jumper pack. Has spark, and fuel, won't run on easy start. I suspect the engine timing, but it's a tricky job to check.
Fortunately the timing chain is in the front, so it should be fairly easy to change.
In addition, in the diesels at least, the engine normally breaks the rocker arms, rather than bend the valves, so again a bit cheaper to fix.
N47 isn’t known for jumping timing tbh, they normally snap and not run at all.
I wouldn’t be looking at the engine replacement at all to be honest. Get a decent fault reader - cheap ones seem to sometimes miss our fault codes completely sometime that are picked up on the decent software.
As a quick check I’d pull out the o2 sensor before the exhaust and see if it runs any better - dpf blocking up can make them run terribly and sometimes stop it starting at all- and sometimes doesn’t log a fault code if it’s the tube to the dpf sensor that is blocked. Pulling out the o2 sensor give exhaust gas a separate exit route
I wouldn’t be looking at the engine replacement at all to be honest. Get a decent fault reader - cheap ones seem to sometimes miss our fault codes completely sometime that are picked up on the decent software.
As a quick check I’d pull out the o2 sensor before the exhaust and see if it runs any better - dpf blocking up can make them run terribly and sometimes stop it starting at all- and sometimes doesn’t log a fault code if it’s the tube to the dpf sensor that is blocked. Pulling out the o2 sensor give exhaust gas a separate exit route
bearman68 said:
Working on a similar 06 plate one (well I think the engine is similar). I've looked at the variable lift system as well - not unusual for the lift motor to cock things up.
Mine is cranking really slowly, even with a fuly charged battery and jumper pack. Has spark, and fuel, won't run on easy start. I suspect the engine timing, but it's a tricky job to check.
Fortunately the timing chain is in the front, so it should be fairly easy to change.
In addition, in the diesels at least, the engine normally breaks the rocker arms, rather than bend the valves, so again a bit cheaper to fix.
Different engine- it’s a diesel and doesn’t have any variable lift gubbins in it to go wrong Mine is cranking really slowly, even with a fuly charged battery and jumper pack. Has spark, and fuel, won't run on easy start. I suspect the engine timing, but it's a tricky job to check.
Fortunately the timing chain is in the front, so it should be fairly easy to change.
In addition, in the diesels at least, the engine normally breaks the rocker arms, rather than bend the valves, so again a bit cheaper to fix.
Fair enough. The tool I have is low to mid range. Was about 80 quid as reads abs srs etc too, but when I go in the live data on the beemer it gives very very basis, map, rpm blah blah... But no fuel rail pressure data, which I thought unusual but then maybe bmw just make it awkward?
There's a few scanners on eBay listed specifically for bmw... inpa k+dcan obd reader... anybody have amy experience with these?
I bought the car described as needing an engine but the trouble code threw some doubt on that. So not condemning it yet.
I've bought a sensor and gonna fit that at the weekend and see what happens...even if it doesn't fix it hopefully it can help confirm a potential hp pump failure if i can get some live data from it.... or if low pressure at least hook up my leakoff tester to the injectors to see what that tells me...
And if there's no way of doing a quick check on the timing ill have to pull out the compression tester for some peace of mind... will need to check my universal diesel com tester has the right fitting mind.
There's a few scanners on eBay listed specifically for bmw... inpa k+dcan obd reader... anybody have amy experience with these?
I bought the car described as needing an engine but the trouble code threw some doubt on that. So not condemning it yet.
I've bought a sensor and gonna fit that at the weekend and see what happens...even if it doesn't fix it hopefully it can help confirm a potential hp pump failure if i can get some live data from it.... or if low pressure at least hook up my leakoff tester to the injectors to see what that tells me...
And if there's no way of doing a quick check on the timing ill have to pull out the compression tester for some peace of mind... will need to check my universal diesel com tester has the right fitting mind.
Yes
M47N2 I believe.
I'll look at doing a leakoff test at weekend then.
If an injector is going nuts that would also explain why it was cutting out when easy start was introduced.
Need to put the rail back on first though. And got a new pressure sensor on the way.
Are they programmed on bmw?
M47N2 I believe.
I'll look at doing a leakoff test at weekend then.
If an injector is going nuts that would also explain why it was cutting out when easy start was introduced.
Need to put the rail back on first though. And got a new pressure sensor on the way.
Are they programmed on bmw?
arcon said:
Fair enough. The tool I have is low to mid range. Was about 80 quid as reads abs srs etc too, but when I go in the live data on the beemer it gives very very basis, map, rpm blah blah... But no fuel rail pressure data, which I thought unusual but then maybe bmw just make it awkward?
There's a few scanners on eBay listed specifically for bmw... inpa k+dcan obd reader... anybody have amy experience with these?
I bought the car described as needing an engine but the trouble code threw some doubt on that. So not condemning it yet.
I've bought a sensor and gonna fit that at the weekend and see what happens...even if it doesn't fix it hopefully it can help confirm a potential hp pump failure if i can get some live data from it.... or if low pressure at least hook up my leakoff tester to the injectors to see what that tells me...
And if there's no way of doing a quick check on the timing ill have to pull out the compression tester for some peace of mind... will need to check my universal diesel com tester has the right fitting mind.
Sorry OP, my mistake. But no fuel pressure is because the fuel pump in not turning. It's a very basic critical reading, and almost certainly is not a function of the scan tool. FRP is an OBD requirement on a diesel. So unfortunately no fuel pressure = no chain drive = chain failure.There's a few scanners on eBay listed specifically for bmw... inpa k+dcan obd reader... anybody have amy experience with these?
I bought the car described as needing an engine but the trouble code threw some doubt on that. So not condemning it yet.
I've bought a sensor and gonna fit that at the weekend and see what happens...even if it doesn't fix it hopefully it can help confirm a potential hp pump failure if i can get some live data from it.... or if low pressure at least hook up my leakoff tester to the injectors to see what that tells me...
And if there's no way of doing a quick check on the timing ill have to pull out the compression tester for some peace of mind... will need to check my universal diesel com tester has the right fitting mind.
Sorry OP, just realised you said you had open circuit on the FRP. Please disregard the inane mumbling of a man who hasn't read the thread properly. 
Check the FRP sensor has 5v and ground. The centre wire should produce 0.5v ignition on with no engine crank, (and about 1v with the engine cranking). If the 0.5v is good, it's not your sensor. I've never actually seen a sensor fail in 10 years of electrical f
k wittery.
Assuming you have the correct voltage at the sensor, trace the wire back to the ECU in the big box behind the front left suspension strut. (Send me your reg, and I'll tell you the pin number if you want). You should get the same voltage as the back of the sensor. If not you have a wire failure, and if you do, it's a connection problem either in the ECU, or in the multiplug connection.
Check the FRP sensor has 5v and ground. The centre wire should produce 0.5v ignition on with no engine crank, (and about 1v with the engine cranking). If the 0.5v is good, it's not your sensor. I've never actually seen a sensor fail in 10 years of electrical f
k wittery.Assuming you have the correct voltage at the sensor, trace the wire back to the ECU in the big box behind the front left suspension strut. (Send me your reg, and I'll tell you the pin number if you want). You should get the same voltage as the back of the sensor. If not you have a wire failure, and if you do, it's a connection problem either in the ECU, or in the multiplug connection.
Yes I'm getting the correct voltages at the plug.
The pin number though would be useful so I can double check still If the new sensor doesn't start showing me rail pressure.
If timing chain had failed though I'd still get rail pressure. As the vehicle engine runs, albeit rough as fook, but it runs which means there is some compression and some fuel being injected. And if its running it must be turning the fuel pump pulley and these aren't timed as from as I'm aware so should general rail pressure all the same.
The pin number though would be useful so I can double check still If the new sensor doesn't start showing me rail pressure.
If timing chain had failed though I'd still get rail pressure. As the vehicle engine runs, albeit rough as fook, but it runs which means there is some compression and some fuel being injected. And if its running it must be turning the fuel pump pulley and these aren't timed as from as I'm aware so should general rail pressure all the same.
helix402 said:
New Injectors need the no inputting to the DDE on the M47. Chain failure is very rare on the M47.
I know with a lot of diesels the number is basically for fine tuning injection. So not programmed would still run, but a bit lumpy until fuel trims can adjust.Is it the same with bmw or will I find a no start condition if the codes don't match up?
arcon said:
Yes I'm getting the correct voltages at the plug.
The pin number though would be useful so I can double check still If the new sensor doesn't start showing me rail pressure.
If timing chain had failed though I'd still get rail pressure. As the vehicle engine runs, albeit rough as fook, but it runs which means there is some compression and some fuel being injected. And if its running it must be turning the fuel pump pulley and these aren't timed as from as I'm aware so should general rail pressure all the same.
I need a reg number - PM me if you want.The pin number though would be useful so I can double check still If the new sensor doesn't start showing me rail pressure.
If timing chain had failed though I'd still get rail pressure. As the vehicle engine runs, albeit rough as fook, but it runs which means there is some compression and some fuel being injected. And if its running it must be turning the fuel pump pulley and these aren't timed as from as I'm aware so should general rail pressure all the same.
I'd be tempted to crank the engine with the multi meter attached - should rise to 1.0 or 1.2v. Once you have this voltage, that enables the ECU (DDE) to fire the injectors. Lower than this and the DDE will inhibit injection. It will normally need to crank over circa 250 rpm before the injection will fire as well.
bearman68 said:
I need a reg number - PM me if you want.
I'd be tempted to crank the engine with the multi meter attached - should rise to 1.0 or 1.2v. Once you have this voltage, that enables the ECU (DDE) to fire the injectors. Lower than this and the DDE will inhibit injection. It will normally need to crank over circa 250 rpm before the injection will fire as well.
Just mailed you mate. ??I'd be tempted to crank the engine with the multi meter attached - should rise to 1.0 or 1.2v. Once you have this voltage, that enables the ECU (DDE) to fire the injectors. Lower than this and the DDE will inhibit injection. It will normally need to crank over circa 250 rpm before the injection will fire as well.
Thanks in advance. Definately need to investigate rail pressure fault. Whether it's the cause of all my issues or not I don't know, probably isn't. But Hard to diagnose engine or fuel system properly if this is flagging up. Hopefully the sensor will sort it, otherwise will have to chase wiring and module. The sensor fault code is a pending one though so definately not helping
Ignoring the fault code for a second, have you tried running it with air mass meter disconnected? A big air leak, or more likely, egr stuck open will give u ur symptom exactly how u described- disconnect the air mass meter and it then runs with a standard air mass measurement which will not be influenced by air leak or egr adding excess air mass into the system
Thanks for the e-mail, sorry it's been so long, been busy, and my internet went down.
Here's the pin outs
Senor Wire Colour ECU
Pin1 brown and green Pin A78
Pin 2 Blue and white Pin A56
Pin 3 White and yellow Pin A30
According to my diagram and experience, Pin 2 on the sensor will be the feedback value, and should be a steady 0.5v at rest ignition on, and rise to about 1.1v on cranking. Less than 1.1v and it won't start.
Best of luck.
Here's the pin outs
Senor Wire Colour ECU
Pin1 brown and green Pin A78
Pin 2 Blue and white Pin A56
Pin 3 White and yellow Pin A30
According to my diagram and experience, Pin 2 on the sensor will be the feedback value, and should be a steady 0.5v at rest ignition on, and rise to about 1.1v on cranking. Less than 1.1v and it won't start.
Best of luck.
Ok
Fitted pressure sensor and the fault code isn't coming back. Still not getting fuel pressure on my device so waiting for a cheap inpa bmw cable to arrive.
Done a compression test. Around 240psi per cylinder. So pretty good.
Tried to do an injector leakoff test but had to abort after about 20 seconds as noticed fuel coming out of the leakoff pipes which had been removed for the test!! Not worked on many bmw but found the highly unusual!!! Done loads of leakoff tests and disconnected there shouldn't be any fuel flowing this way as they are merely return pipes from injectors!! Anybody seen this?
As it stands I'm not sure what's up but it seems likely something to do with the fuel system.
Fitted pressure sensor and the fault code isn't coming back. Still not getting fuel pressure on my device so waiting for a cheap inpa bmw cable to arrive.
Done a compression test. Around 240psi per cylinder. So pretty good.
Tried to do an injector leakoff test but had to abort after about 20 seconds as noticed fuel coming out of the leakoff pipes which had been removed for the test!! Not worked on many bmw but found the highly unusual!!! Done loads of leakoff tests and disconnected there shouldn't be any fuel flowing this way as they are merely return pipes from injectors!! Anybody seen this?
As it stands I'm not sure what's up but it seems likely something to do with the fuel system.
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