F90 M5 Competition
Discussion
theboss said:
It’s little things like this which are worth knowing for the future. I never used active cruise on the last car I had it on, and rarely use dumb cruise on the current F10 M5, so wouldn’t care much about the function at all. But blanked buttons would really wind me up!!
I mentioned it as I wish someone had told me. I pick up my new M5 in a few days and i'm already feeling annoyed about it instead of excited. Learning about the blank buttons has really put me off the car and soured the whole experience. I get this may seem daft to some but it really bugs me. I just wish the salesperson had mentioned it when I was doing my order, I didn't want the ACC (the only time I ever use cruise is through average speed camera sections) but i would have specced it to not have the stupid blank buttons.The salesman is going to get a shock when he hands over the car, expecting em to be all happy and excited and instead im going to be in a pretty bad mood lol.
Fulmentaljack3t said:
I mentioned it as I wish someone had told me. I pick up my new M5 in a few days and i'm already feeling annoyed about it instead of excited. Learning about the blank buttons has really put me off the car and soured the whole experience. I get this may seem daft to some but it really bugs me. I just wish the salesperson had mentioned it when I was doing my order, I didn't want the ACC (the only time I ever use cruise is through average speed camera sections) but i would have specced it to not have the stupid blank buttons.
The salesman is going to get a shock when he hands over the car, expecting em to be all happy and excited and instead im going to be in a pretty bad mood lol.
You’d be mad to let this take away from the joy..... if you never use it it’s a complete waste of money. You’ll notice the buttons don’t look ‘blanked off’ when you see it. I actually think the steering wheel looks neater and less ‘going on’ without the additional graphics. Enjoy you new car The salesman is going to get a shock when he hands over the car, expecting em to be all happy and excited and instead im going to be in a pretty bad mood lol.
garystoybox said:
You’d be mad to let this take away from the joy..... if you never use it it’s a complete waste of money. You’ll notice the buttons don’t look ‘blanked off’ when you see it. I actually think the steering wheel looks neater and less ‘going on’ without the additional graphics. Enjoy you new car
You are bang on, I would be mad and sadly I am quite, quite mad. I have a seemingly unending compulsion to see the negatives in absolutely everything and hardly any capacity to see the positives, happiness or joy. Consequently I have spent my life as a negative and unhappy person.Thank you though, I will try and enjoy in my own way haha
Fulmentaljack3t said:
You are bang on, I would be mad and sadly I am quite, quite mad. I have a seemingly unending compulsion to see the negatives in absolutely everything and hardly any capacity to see the positives, happiness or joy. Consequently I have spent my life as a negative and unhappy person.
Thank you though, I will try and enjoy in my own way haha
It’s good you recognise this, and I can to some degree sympathise. Thank you though, I will try and enjoy in my own way haha
I’m utterly crazy about rattle and interior trim noises, to the point I’ve learnt how to locate and fix most interior noises myself (I’m so much better than any dealer and I’ve got all the kit, including very expensive Krytox lubricant that permanently and invisibly deals with plastic creaky noises so is a godsend to someone like me). Anyone who buys a car after I’ve had it will be buying the quietest example of that car.
Another thing that gets me is vibration from imperfectly balanced wheels. Sadly this is an issue that plagues BMW M’s more than others, and my new M5 is no exception.
Between 90-110 the steering wheel shakes minutely, not enough to bother most people but enough to irritate me. Then as I’ve just found on my current trip to Switzerland, above 110 the whole car shakes from poorly balanced rears. Almost impossible to indentify in the UK but very obvious on a fast German autobahn.
I’ve had the wheels balanced whilst in Switzerland and they were all out, the fronts by only a few grams but one of the rears was a total of 85g out (40 inside, 45 outside). Poor job BMW factory! It’s a bit tricky to test the result in Switzerland with their draconian speeding laws so hopefully all is OK on my way home. But I’m sceptical, because I had similar issues on many of my previous M cars, sometimes never resolved as it’s so hard to get them just so. I’m not sure why these M’s are so hard to get right but maybe the big camber levels just makes them more sensitive.
That aside by the way, it’s an outstanding long distance machine yet it also genuinely feels sharp and agile on the alpine roads. Refinement is top notch, and those seats are good even after 8 hours.
Now, back to your point Fulmentaljack3t, if you recognise this then just consider others won’t know what bothers you, not least your dealer. It’s not their fault, the ‘issue’ exists only with you. There’s no gain to be had from making the salesman feel bad and there’s certainly no way you could expect him to tell you the buttons would be blank...how was he to know it bothered you when he’s not a mind reader? Try and enjoy the car and its collection as best as you can.
But as I said, I can sympathise. If I don’t get these wheels balanced then the M5 will simply have to go
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 6th March 22:36
I picked up an M5C at New Year and have just had the running-in service done last week. I previously had and RS6 and and F10 before that; although I agree with the poster that said the RS6 was a better-looking car, the F90 is just so much more nimble than the Audi and massively more fun to drive. In the 3 years I owned the RS6 I never once got up early to go out for a drive just for the hell of it, with the M5C I have been out twice in the last couple of months and will be doing much more once Spring starts properly. The F10 also never excited me the way this one does.
I test drive both the M5 and M5C before deciding - the Competition model is marginally less comfortable, but the steering feel and cornering confidence (I know it is a big car and it is all relative) just added so much to the experience for me it was an obvious choice.
A few pictures of mine from just after collection (it is now pretty filthy having not been washed in 2 months - waiting for better weather and having some time)....
I test drive both the M5 and M5C before deciding - the Competition model is marginally less comfortable, but the steering feel and cornering confidence (I know it is a big car and it is all relative) just added so much to the experience for me it was an obvious choice.
A few pictures of mine from just after collection (it is now pretty filthy having not been washed in 2 months - waiting for better weather and having some time)....
DB77 said:
I picked up an M5C at New Year and have just had the running-in service done last week. I previously had and RS6 and and F10 before that; although I agree with the poster that said the RS6 was a better-looking car, the F90 is just so much more nimble than the Audi and massively more fun to drive. In the 3 years I owned the RS6 I never once got up early to go out for a drive just for the hell of it, with the M5C I have been out twice in the last couple of months and will be doing much more once Spring starts properly. The F10 also never excited me the way this one does.
I test drive both the M5 and M5C before deciding - the Competition model is marginally less comfortable, but the steering feel and cornering confidence (I know it is a big car and it is all relative) just added so much to the experience for me it was an obvious choice.
A few pictures of mine from just after collection (it is now pretty filthy having not been washed in 2 months - waiting for better weather and having some time)....
Very nice and given the choice of colour that’s exactly what I would go for.I test drive both the M5 and M5C before deciding - the Competition model is marginally less comfortable, but the steering feel and cornering confidence (I know it is a big car and it is all relative) just added so much to the experience for me it was an obvious choice.
A few pictures of mine from just after collection (it is now pretty filthy having not been washed in 2 months - waiting for better weather and having some time)....
I would like to drive the M5 and CP back to back to establish which is the right car, might have to have a word with my dealer again.
Palmball said:
Fulmentaljack3t said:
You are bang on, I would be mad and sadly I am quite, quite mad. I have a seemingly unending compulsion to see the negatives in absolutely everything and hardly any capacity to see the positives, happiness or joy. Consequently I have spent my life as a negative and unhappy person.
Thank you though, I will try and enjoy in my own way haha
It’s good you recognise this, and I can to some degree sympathise. Thank you though, I will try and enjoy in my own way haha
I’m utterly crazy about rattle and interior trim noises, to the point I’ve learnt how to locate and fix most interior noises myself (I’m so much better than any dealer and I’ve got all the kit, including very expensive Krytox lubricant that permanently and invisibly deals with plastic creaky noises so is a godsend to someone like me). Anyone who buys a car after I’ve had it will be buying the quietest example of that car.
Another thing that gets me is vibration from imperfectly balanced wheels. Sadly this is an issue that plagues BMW M’s more than others, and my new M5 is no exception.
Between 90-110 the steering wheel shakes minutely, not enough to bother most people but enough to irritate me. Then as I’ve just found on my current trip to Switzerland, above 110 the whole car shakes from poorly balanced rears. Almost impossible to indentify in the UK but very obvious on a fast German autobahn.
I’ve had the wheels balanced whilst in Switzerland and they were all out, the fronts by only a few grams but one of the rears was a total of 85g out (40 inside, 45 outside). Poor job BMW factory! It’s a bit tricky to test the result in Switzerland with their draconian speeding laws so hopefully all is OK on my way home. But I’m sceptical, because I had similar issues on many of my previous M cars, sometimes never resolved as it’s so hard to get them just so. I’m not sure why these M’s are so hard to get right but maybe the big camber levels just makes them more sensitive.
That aside by the way, it’s an outstanding long distance machine yet it also genuinely feels sharp and agile on the alpine roads. Refinement is top notch, and those seats are good even after 8 hours.
Now, back to your point Fulmentaljack3t, if you recognise this then just consider others won’t know what bothers you, not least your dealer. It’s not their fault, the ‘issue’ exists only with you. There’s no gain to be had from making the salesman feel bad and there’s certainly no way you could expect him to tell you the buttons would be blank...how was he to know it bothered you when he’s not a mind reader? Try and enjoy the car and its collection as best as you can.
But as I said, I can sympathise. If I don’t get these wheels balanced then the M5 will simply have to go
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 6th March 22:36
Palmball said:
An F90 M5 thread? Jeez, these are few and far between, and probably reflects the fact nobody is buying them.
I bought one in December. It initially replaced a 10 month old 911 GTS because, well, I fancied one. Obviously very different cars but getting out of the 911 and straight into the M5, I can honestly say I didn't feel short changed. It's a big unit and it can't hide that (it even seemed to dwarf our RS6 when parked next to it).
I didn't test drive before buying but I've had enough M cars and it had suitably good reviews to take a punt, and it's turned out pretty good actually. It ended up replacing my wifes RS6 as it is (just) big enough to cope with our twin babies and all the paraphernalia they bring. Its' practicality is something we couldn't be sure of until living with it for a while hence it replaced the 911 and we ran it side by side with the RS6 for a few weeks.
It does mean I have a good comparison between the M5 and a 2017 RS6 Performance. I'll start with the easy stuff.
Aesthetically it's nice enough; well stanced, obviously something a bit fruity but it's no RS6 in terms of presence. I much preferred the looks of the Audi.
Inside is a different matter. The interior technology, materials, lighting, B&W audio (optional) and all the modern trinkets are all world class. Another world to the 911 and it made the RS6 seem a bit dated inside (although both are equally as well constructed, if anything the Audi felt more 'solid').
It's very fast, obviously. I reckon perceptibly quicker than the (605bhp) RS6 although that might be due to the fact it's less refined than the Audi. Don't get me wrong, the M5 is very refined but the RS6 was exceptional, probably helped by its double glazing. The M5's seats are outstanding, probably the finest and most adjustable seats I've experienced. The driving position is a bit higher than I'd like, but that's only really highlighted by the RS6's perfect and low set driving position so you get used to the slightly higher position in a matter of moments.
Another reason the M5 is so quick is the transmission in the M5 is better calibrated, snappier and smoother. What the transmission shouldn't be mistaken for is a dual clutch. You'll read reports that there's no penalty for the move to a ZF torque converter and, whilst it is smoother than a DCT and as quick as torque converter auto gets, it's definitely not as quick to swap gears as a DCT. It just means it's easier to smack into the rev limiter if you're used to leaving the gear change to the last nanosecond like you can with a DCT.
Chassis wise, be prepared for one thing - it is quite harsh. You feel road vibration through the car more than I expected and I believe this is quite unique to the Competition, probably due to some suspension components being rose jointed directly to the chassis rather than the standard M5's rubber bushings. It's one of the first things I noticed, even getting out of the 911 into the M5, you could feel the road surface through the structure so much more (and another reason it feels less refined than the RS6). It rides OK, but again be prepared for this being a firm riding (but well controlled) car.
The payoff is the handling where it's very impressive, not just for a 1900kg car, it's just impressive....period. Even in comfort mode the body stays very flat, the damping keeps the body movements well contained and the steering is a revelation if you ever felt the previous F10 (where in my opinion, the steering was a real weakness). It's more natural in feel and extremely direct. OK, it's no 911 but the M5 does feel genuinely agile and it's here where it pulls a big advantage over the RS6 which took more effort (and felt less comfortable) to hustle along.
Financially this is probably one of my less shrewd buys so getting a decent deal is key. I saw mine come up for sale at an independent and snapped it up immediately because it has every single option ticked bar carbon brakes (so c.£110k spec) and was being sold for £84k with 1k miles. Seemed a decent buy because it was actually someones car and not a pre-reg so it had a level of spec not typically seen in the main dealers (in fact, it seems most pre-reg Competition Packs have very few options).
So in summary I'd say these do live up to the hype the press give them. It's a very good car, and any preferences towards another option like an equivalent Merc or Audi would be down to marginal detail. I'd say my heart is still with the RS6 because I preferred the looks of it and the more GT-esque refinement, but the M5 is certainly the more fun car. But then I have another car for 'fun' so if this was the only car, it would probably be a different situation. I'm historically a big AMG fan but the E63 just didn't get a look in; that's less refined than the M5 and I just can't get on with Merc's current droopy design language.
We don't see enough of these talked about so here's a few photo's....
Hi PalmballI bought one in December. It initially replaced a 10 month old 911 GTS because, well, I fancied one. Obviously very different cars but getting out of the 911 and straight into the M5, I can honestly say I didn't feel short changed. It's a big unit and it can't hide that (it even seemed to dwarf our RS6 when parked next to it).
I didn't test drive before buying but I've had enough M cars and it had suitably good reviews to take a punt, and it's turned out pretty good actually. It ended up replacing my wifes RS6 as it is (just) big enough to cope with our twin babies and all the paraphernalia they bring. Its' practicality is something we couldn't be sure of until living with it for a while hence it replaced the 911 and we ran it side by side with the RS6 for a few weeks.
It does mean I have a good comparison between the M5 and a 2017 RS6 Performance. I'll start with the easy stuff.
Aesthetically it's nice enough; well stanced, obviously something a bit fruity but it's no RS6 in terms of presence. I much preferred the looks of the Audi.
Inside is a different matter. The interior technology, materials, lighting, B&W audio (optional) and all the modern trinkets are all world class. Another world to the 911 and it made the RS6 seem a bit dated inside (although both are equally as well constructed, if anything the Audi felt more 'solid').
It's very fast, obviously. I reckon perceptibly quicker than the (605bhp) RS6 although that might be due to the fact it's less refined than the Audi. Don't get me wrong, the M5 is very refined but the RS6 was exceptional, probably helped by its double glazing. The M5's seats are outstanding, probably the finest and most adjustable seats I've experienced. The driving position is a bit higher than I'd like, but that's only really highlighted by the RS6's perfect and low set driving position so you get used to the slightly higher position in a matter of moments.
Another reason the M5 is so quick is the transmission in the M5 is better calibrated, snappier and smoother. What the transmission shouldn't be mistaken for is a dual clutch. You'll read reports that there's no penalty for the move to a ZF torque converter and, whilst it is smoother than a DCT and as quick as torque converter auto gets, it's definitely not as quick to swap gears as a DCT. It just means it's easier to smack into the rev limiter if you're used to leaving the gear change to the last nanosecond like you can with a DCT.
Chassis wise, be prepared for one thing - it is quite harsh. You feel road vibration through the car more than I expected and I believe this is quite unique to the Competition, probably due to some suspension components being rose jointed directly to the chassis rather than the standard M5's rubber bushings. It's one of the first things I noticed, even getting out of the 911 into the M5, you could feel the road surface through the structure so much more (and another reason it feels less refined than the RS6). It rides OK, but again be prepared for this being a firm riding (but well controlled) car.
The payoff is the handling where it's very impressive, not just for a 1900kg car, it's just impressive....period. Even in comfort mode the body stays very flat, the damping keeps the body movements well contained and the steering is a revelation if you ever felt the previous F10 (where in my opinion, the steering was a real weakness). It's more natural in feel and extremely direct. OK, it's no 911 but the M5 does feel genuinely agile and it's here where it pulls a big advantage over the RS6 which took more effort (and felt less comfortable) to hustle along.
Financially this is probably one of my less shrewd buys so getting a decent deal is key. I saw mine come up for sale at an independent and snapped it up immediately because it has every single option ticked bar carbon brakes (so c.£110k spec) and was being sold for £84k with 1k miles. Seemed a decent buy because it was actually someones car and not a pre-reg so it had a level of spec not typically seen in the main dealers (in fact, it seems most pre-reg Competition Packs have very few options).
So in summary I'd say these do live up to the hype the press give them. It's a very good car, and any preferences towards another option like an equivalent Merc or Audi would be down to marginal detail. I'd say my heart is still with the RS6 because I preferred the looks of it and the more GT-esque refinement, but the M5 is certainly the more fun car. But then I have another car for 'fun' so if this was the only car, it would probably be a different situation. I'm historically a big AMG fan but the E63 just didn't get a look in; that's less refined than the M5 and I just can't get on with Merc's current droopy design language.
We don't see enough of these talked about so here's a few photo's....
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 27th February 02:02
ll, car looks great what polish did you use?, or have you had it detailed?. thanks
PS) I am looking at the same colour spec at the moment.
JMBMWM5 said:
Iv'e been looking at the CP model to upgrade, however my insurance Co want double the cost + tracker to be fitted!!!!
Just for 25BHP. been on line to all the web sites and ALL are double what I pay for the F90 M5 basic.
WHY?.
Try Direct Line, i did a quote for standard and a CP and the CP was marginally cheaper, didn't ask for a tracker.Just for 25BHP. been on line to all the web sites and ALL are double what I pay for the F90 M5 basic.
WHY?.
Best prices I could get were from BMW insurance (must have tracker) and AXA (again tracker). AXA were the cheapest by a long way, so much so that I thought i'd entered the details incorrectly. I have gone for the standard M5 and I pay £250 less for the F90 than I was paying for my F10 M5.
Fulmentaljack3t said:
Try Direct Line, i did a quote for standard and a CP and the CP was marginally cheaper, didn't ask for a tracker.
Best prices I could get were from BMW insurance (must have tracker) and AXA (again tracker). AXA were the cheapest by a long way, so much so that I thought i'd entered the details incorrectly. I have gone for the standard M5 and I pay £250 less for the F90 than I was paying for my F10 M5.
Many thanks will do.Best prices I could get were from BMW insurance (must have tracker) and AXA (again tracker). AXA were the cheapest by a long way, so much so that I thought i'd entered the details incorrectly. I have gone for the standard M5 and I pay £250 less for the F90 than I was paying for my F10 M5.
JMBMWM5 said:
i Palmball
ll, car looks great what polish did you use?, or have you had it detailed?. thanks
PS) I am looking at the same colour spec at the moment.
Honestly, that’s before it was detailed. So just washed and left to dry. I have since had it detailed with a single stage polish and gtechniq exo v4, if only to make it easier to clean. But the day after I had it detailed, last Friday, I drove it to Switzerland so it’s a mess again! ll, car looks great what polish did you use?, or have you had it detailed?. thanks
PS) I am looking at the same colour spec at the moment.
Here we are on the day it was detailed...
And here we are a few days and a lot of miles later
Personally JMBMWM5 I wouldn’t be swapping your M5 for a Competition, you can’t have had yours a long time and it’s just not worth the huge extra cost.
More importantly in my opinion, yours has ceramic brakes which is the one option mine hasn’t got and I would spec every day of the year if I was buying new. Once you’ve had ceramics and enjoyed their solid and consistent feel, their robustness in dealing with hard (road) driving and the lack of brake dust it’s very hard to go back to steels. Unless you’re buying new I’d hazard a guess any Competiton you’re looking at won’t have ceramics.
And here we are a few days and a lot of miles later
Personally JMBMWM5 I wouldn’t be swapping your M5 for a Competition, you can’t have had yours a long time and it’s just not worth the huge extra cost.
More importantly in my opinion, yours has ceramic brakes which is the one option mine hasn’t got and I would spec every day of the year if I was buying new. Once you’ve had ceramics and enjoyed their solid and consistent feel, their robustness in dealing with hard (road) driving and the lack of brake dust it’s very hard to go back to steels. Unless you’re buying new I’d hazard a guess any Competiton you’re looking at won’t have ceramics.
JMBMWM5 said:
Iv'e been looking at the CP model to upgrade, however my insurance Co want double the cost + tracker to be fitted!!!!
Just for 25BHP. been on line to all the web sites and ALL are double what I pay for the F90 M5 basic.
WHY?.
John, I am interested to understand why you are looking at changing. I recall you felt there was little difference between the M5 and M5C and expect the cost to change makes the insurance delta pretty insignificant? What has changed?Just for 25BHP. been on line to all the web sites and ALL are double what I pay for the F90 M5 basic.
WHY?.
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