The best M Car? The E46 M3 - Andrew Frankel
Discussion
Mr Tidy said:
I got a great reminder of that today on a 90 mile round trip to visit family (in the garden with social-distancing)!
But my S54 isn't in an E46, it's in a Z4M Coupe and it's one of the first cars I have bought where how it looked was a big factor in my decision - it just looks so right. Plus I don't need rear seats in my weekend car but if I did it would have to be an E46 M3.
I'm thinking very hard about trading in the E92 M3 for an Z4M Coupe. How does one rate as driver's car compared to an E92? I will miss the V8 soundtrack and supple handling but the DCT leaves me cold - it's very clinical and on the right roads it can feel amazing but only 2/10 of the time.But my S54 isn't in an E46, it's in a Z4M Coupe and it's one of the first cars I have bought where how it looked was a big factor in my decision - it just looks so right. Plus I don't need rear seats in my weekend car but if I did it would have to be an E46 M3.
fido said:
I'm thinking very hard about trading in the E92 M3 for an Z4M Coupe. How does one rate as driver's car compared to an E92? I will miss the V8 soundtrack and supple handling but the DCT leaves me cold - it's very clinical and on the right roads it can feel amazing but only 2/10 of the time.
I've never driven an E92, but my last couple of dailies have been an E91 325i and currently an E90 330i (both manual). Obviously they don't have anything like M3 performance, but just sitting in my MC feels more special even before starting the engine! I suppose it's the compact cabin, lower seating position just in front of the rear wheels and long bonnet.
An MC won't be quite as quick (BMW quoted 5 seconds for 0 to 62) but they are pretty rare as it seems only about 600 were registered in the UK. And if you are ever on an autobahn I'm told the 155mph limiter only works in 6th gear so revving one out in 5th will get to 175mph (which may explain the 180mph speedo!
In other respects they are old school M cars, with hydraulic PAS, non-runflat tyres, an LSD, Traction Control that can be turned off completely and an 8,000rpm red-line.
I love mine, but after 5+ years with 3.0Si Z4 Coupes I'll admit to being biased. I'd recommend trying one if you can before deciding and maybe having a read on z4forum, although many of the same issues like the running-in service, Inspection services for valve clearances and crank rod bearing shells are the same!
Mr Tidy said:
I'd recommend trying one if you can before deciding and maybe having a read on z4forum, although many of the same issues like the running-in service, Inspection services for valve clearances and crank rod bearing shells are the same!
Definitely, trying before buying. My original fears with getting an S65-based car were maintenance related but I suppose every M-car will have its foibles. If it hasn't been posted before, some history about the transition from 6 to 8 cylinders ..
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?...
fido said:
I'm thinking very hard about trading in the E92 M3 for an Z4M Coupe. How does one rate as driver's car compared to an E92? I will miss the V8 soundtrack and supple handling but the DCT leaves me cold - it's very clinical and on the right roads it can feel amazing but only 2/10 of the time.
I sort of get what you mean 
.I do love the S54, but ensure it's a good one. Finding one with the VANOS done, and rod bearings IMHO is a bonus. Rod bearings IME aren't an issue as long as:
-The car has an impecable service history
-Hasn't been thrashed from cold.
If you can't guarantee those things, I'd change them : £800-1000 as an one-off for the car is cheaper than the alternatives (i.e a £4k engine or a new crank at £2.2k + fitting). I've seen some sets from cars be almost shot at 50 (in a mate's M3, his actually threw a rod out of the block at 45k), but then I've seen others do 150k and even 200k without an issue ; Mine were changed at 140k and had minimal wear on them bar one shell, which was just beginning to show some copper.
The VANOS for the most key failures are easy enough to change at home IME with basic tools if you do your own work. I'd only ever use Beisan seals now for them
.fido said:
Mr Tidy said:
I got a great reminder of that today on a 90 mile round trip to visit family (in the garden with social-distancing)!
But my S54 isn't in an E46, it's in a Z4M Coupe and it's one of the first cars I have bought where how it looked was a big factor in my decision - it just looks so right. Plus I don't need rear seats in my weekend car but if I did it would have to be an E46 M3.
I'm thinking very hard about trading in the E92 M3 for an Z4M Coupe. How does one rate as driver's car compared to an E92? I will miss the V8 soundtrack and supple handling but the DCT leaves me cold - it's very clinical and on the right roads it can feel amazing but only 2/10 of the time.But my S54 isn't in an E46, it's in a Z4M Coupe and it's one of the first cars I have bought where how it looked was a big factor in my decision - it just looks so right. Plus I don't need rear seats in my weekend car but if I did it would have to be an E46 M3.
Get a manual E92 M3 and job done!
Tony B2 said:
Exactly my feelings on DCT. Quick, efficient, cold.
Get a manual E92 M3 and job done!
Problem is I hated the manual - it’s no way near BMW’s best effort. I saw a dark blue Z4M in Fleet this morning - think i’m in love with that behind. The interior isn’t that far behind the E92 - though mine is specced up to the eyeballs.Get a manual E92 M3 and job done!
fido said:
Tony B2 said:
Exactly my feelings on DCT. Quick, efficient, cold.
Get a manual E92 M3 and job done!
Problem is I hated the manual - it’s no way near BMW’s best effort. I saw a dark blue Z4M in Fleet this morning - think i’m in love with that behind. The interior isn’t that far behind the E92 - though mine is specced up to the eyeballs.Get a manual E92 M3 and job done!
F10 M5 gear-shift mod works wonders. I think that is also the same as the shifter in the M2 now (different gearbox of course).
fido said:
Definitely, trying before buying. My original fears with getting an S65-based car were maintenance related but I suppose every M-car will have its foibles.
If it hasn't been posted before, some history about the transition from 6 to 8 cylinders ..
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?...
That's a fantastic link - thanksIf it hasn't been posted before, some history about the transition from 6 to 8 cylinders ..
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?...
things I didn't know before reading that:
- "The undersquare design also makes the S54 extremely stressed necessitating the iron block and strong internals. Not only is the block stressed, but the crank, pistons, rods, everything."
- "The V8 S65 can rev to 8250 rpm, 250 rpm higher than the S54, and reach that RPM with far less stress to the block and internals than the S54 at redline. Not to mention, the stroke can be increased, significantly."
- "Unlike the S54, which is as good as it could be and took some unique work to gain power on with the CSL, the S65, a very good V10 mind you, this motor is not even close to maxed nor did the BMW engineers push it as hard as they pushed the S54."
- "V8 lower weight; the 4.0 V8 S65 is 33 pounds lighter than the 3.2 S54"
- "V8 has less stress on the crank, block, and rods compared to 3.2 S54"
- "S65 V8 has better engine bay placement than 3.2 S54"
Wow. Makes me want both.
IMO the E9X M3 is the best M car, the engine is great and the E9X chassis / interior is a step on from the E46
Dunno why the E46 gets such a high praise, it's a really good car, but it's well behind an E9X M3 in driving pleasure, power, reliability, interior and such. Although, they're all pretty unreliable
Dunno why the E46 gets such a high praise, it's a really good car, but it's well behind an E9X M3 in driving pleasure, power, reliability, interior and such. Although, they're all pretty unreliable
xjay1337 said:
IMO the E9X M3 is the best M car, the engine is great and the E9X chassis / interior is a step on from the E46
Dunno why the E46 gets such a high praise, it's a really good car, but it's well behind an E9X M3 in driving pleasure, power, reliability, interior and such. Although, they're all pretty unreliable
I must admit, after reading all of the above I would like to own an E92 M3 coupe for a year and tick that one off the bucket list. Dunno why the E46 gets such a high praise, it's a really good car, but it's well behind an E9X M3 in driving pleasure, power, reliability, interior and such. Although, they're all pretty unreliable
With every week that passes during these 'interesting' economic times they really are becoming one of the greatest performance car bargains. E9x M3s haven't got much more to fall before their values have bottomed-out, ie. the same as what E46 M3s did during the 2008-2010 GFC recession
Edited by TobyTR on Tuesday 2nd June 09:39
Thread resurrection
TobyTR said:
That's a fantastic link - thanks
things I didn't know before reading that:
- "The undersquare design also makes the S54 extremely stressed necessitating the iron block and strong internals. Not only is the block stressed, but the crank, pistons, rods, everything."
- "The V8 S65 can rev to 8250 rpm, 250 rpm higher than the S54, and reach that RPM with far less stress to the block and internals than the S54 at redline. Not to mention, the stroke can be increased, significantly."
- "Unlike the S54, which is as good as it could be and took some unique work to gain power on with the CSL, the S65, a very good V10 mind you, this motor is not even close to maxed nor did the BMW engineers push it as hard as they pushed the S54."
- "V8 lower weight; the 4.0 V8 S65 is 33 pounds lighter than the 3.2 S54"
- "V8 has less stress on the crank, block, and rods compared to 3.2 S54"
- "S65 V8 has better engine bay placement than 3.2 S54"
Wow. Makes me want both.
Dig a little deeper and you'll find that BMW was being somewhat "creative" in their use of that statement, because a short engine (no heads, cams, cam carriers etc etc) S65 (alloy block) is indeed 33kgs lighter than the S54 cast iron block short engine (no sh*t Sherlock .... !!) but a fully dressed "long" (complete) S65 engine weighs some 35-40kg more than the S54 complete engine ...things I didn't know before reading that:
- "The undersquare design also makes the S54 extremely stressed necessitating the iron block and strong internals. Not only is the block stressed, but the crank, pistons, rods, everything."
- "The V8 S65 can rev to 8250 rpm, 250 rpm higher than the S54, and reach that RPM with far less stress to the block and internals than the S54 at redline. Not to mention, the stroke can be increased, significantly."
- "Unlike the S54, which is as good as it could be and took some unique work to gain power on with the CSL, the S65, a very good V10 mind you, this motor is not even close to maxed nor did the BMW engineers push it as hard as they pushed the S54."
- "V8 lower weight; the 4.0 V8 S65 is 33 pounds lighter than the 3.2 S54"
- "V8 has less stress on the crank, block, and rods compared to 3.2 S54"
- "S65 V8 has better engine bay placement than 3.2 S54"
Wow. Makes me want both.
1602Mark said:
I've had a few E30 and E46 M3 and it's the E30 that I loved the most. Admittedly I had to modify the S14 to release its potential but overall I just found it a great car. It just felt special and the handling was awesome. The E46 was obviously faster but it was also considerably heavier, wider and just didn't evoke the same feel as the E30. It was a great car but it's the E30 I wish was still sat on the driveway.
A year on and I find myself looking for another. Having owned an E46 M3, it was completely overhyped. Owned it for 3.5 years mostly because it sat in a garage hardly being used as it was such a forgettable drive.
If anything the 130i I had alongside it at some point was more memorable.
I’ve owned my Z4M for 6 years and will never sell it. It is a truly flawed but also hugely charismatic drive. It’s like the dog that humps your leg then runs away. It always feels like it’s on it’s toes but also willing to bite you if you take too many chances.
If anything the 130i I had alongside it at some point was more memorable.
I’ve owned my Z4M for 6 years and will never sell it. It is a truly flawed but also hugely charismatic drive. It’s like the dog that humps your leg then runs away. It always feels like it’s on it’s toes but also willing to bite you if you take too many chances.
Apart from being a subjective thing, my own experience was that it was dependent on tyres, geometry spec and wheel size. I tried several different geo' and they changed the dynamics significantly. In fact, more so than anything other than I'd experienced before apart from my track E30 M3. Admittedly I ran KWV3's and a square 18'' wheel so it was never going to feel like a stock example. I love the S54 engine though and never felt it needed more power, although I did run a carbon air box.
1602Mark said:
Apart from being a subjective thing, my own experience was that it was dependent on tyres, geometry spec and wheel size. I tried several different geo' and they changed the dynamics significantly. In fact, more so than anything other than I'd experienced before apart from my track E30 M3.
That's ever so true Mark and still applies to modern M cars. They're particularly sensitive to toe settings, the additional challenge is to find a trusted alignment place and operator whose margins of error are not so great that the entire process becomes irrelevant, without having to spend £250 at places like CG or the likes, which I will probably have to do eventually...Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff