E61 M5: Is the auto mode really that bad, and a Q on values
Discussion
Cactussed said:
To the OP.
I'm assuming your use of hand controls is driven by inability to use your legs (for whatever reason).
To that end, I imagine that driving like a manual (ie with slight throttle lifts between changes) is going to be less straight forward (and possibly ultimately a pain in the backside).
I ran an E61 M5 for a bit over a year and (warranty work aside - £6.5k in a year for throttle actuators, Traction control unit, tailgait wiring etc) I didn't enjoy the experience. Oddly, I quite enjoyed the gearbox as it gave a very mechanical feel, but in auto mode it wasn't great. Its very clunky and spoils things a bit. I'd imagine that trying to manage the gearbox and throttle by hand around town would become tiresome.
I had 2 bigger issues with the car however.
First was the engine, which I found poorly suited to the car. Its a cracker of a lump, but it really needs to be revved to make it go, and the majority of my time was spent with the kids in the car at sub 5k rpm, where the engine felt like it wasn't in its element. This was in contrast to my B10 V8 Alpina which had gobs of torque and was, in almost every way, a better daily car. Don't get me wrong, when you're really ragging the daylights out of it, the M5 comes alive, but as most of my driving wasn't at 10/10s, for the most part it felt muted (aka dull).
The second part wasn't fuel economy (which was utterly woeful) but the stupidly small tank. We took the car away on holiday once and I literally had to fill up every 2-3 days, which became something of a standing joke.
Glad I had one, also glad I sold it. High revving V10 aside, its a flawed car.
In contrast, I subsequently tried an E63 6.2 with the MCT box and as a daily, its miles better, mainly due to the gearbox and the torque curve which makes punting it about at everyday revs and speeds hilarious (at the expense of not being able to rev it to 8500 rpm once in a while).
All just my 2c, but I'd think long and hard about the M5.
Just a thought, but if you've the budget, I suspect a newer 550i with the zf 8spd would be an excellent option (if you can find one).
It's an M5 for goodness sake, and it's absolutely not a flawed car. Just go and buy a nice diesel if you want something to pootle around in.I'm assuming your use of hand controls is driven by inability to use your legs (for whatever reason).
To that end, I imagine that driving like a manual (ie with slight throttle lifts between changes) is going to be less straight forward (and possibly ultimately a pain in the backside).
I ran an E61 M5 for a bit over a year and (warranty work aside - £6.5k in a year for throttle actuators, Traction control unit, tailgait wiring etc) I didn't enjoy the experience. Oddly, I quite enjoyed the gearbox as it gave a very mechanical feel, but in auto mode it wasn't great. Its very clunky and spoils things a bit. I'd imagine that trying to manage the gearbox and throttle by hand around town would become tiresome.
I had 2 bigger issues with the car however.
First was the engine, which I found poorly suited to the car. Its a cracker of a lump, but it really needs to be revved to make it go, and the majority of my time was spent with the kids in the car at sub 5k rpm, where the engine felt like it wasn't in its element. This was in contrast to my B10 V8 Alpina which had gobs of torque and was, in almost every way, a better daily car. Don't get me wrong, when you're really ragging the daylights out of it, the M5 comes alive, but as most of my driving wasn't at 10/10s, for the most part it felt muted (aka dull).
The second part wasn't fuel economy (which was utterly woeful) but the stupidly small tank. We took the car away on holiday once and I literally had to fill up every 2-3 days, which became something of a standing joke.
Glad I had one, also glad I sold it. High revving V10 aside, its a flawed car.
In contrast, I subsequently tried an E63 6.2 with the MCT box and as a daily, its miles better, mainly due to the gearbox and the torque curve which makes punting it about at everyday revs and speeds hilarious (at the expense of not being able to rev it to 8500 rpm once in a while).
All just my 2c, but I'd think long and hard about the M5.
Just a thought, but if you've the budget, I suspect a newer 550i with the zf 8spd would be an excellent option (if you can find one).
The V10 is undoubtedly one of the world's greatest N/A engines and we will never see it's like again. The handling and the performance is phenomenal and the gearbox is absolutely fine for the car, stick it in S5 or 6 and bang it through the gears. Who would ever want to drive one of these in auto for more than a few minutes ffs.
Buy a 550i? You're in the wrong car and the wrong forum mate.
leglessAlex said:
Well, you've all sucessfully pissed on my chips 
I kid, I kid, thank you all for your input! Lucky for me, the fact they're so rare means that I can't really rush out, ignore all your advice and buy one anyway. Which I probably would have done.
There is a particular kind of hand control setup that would allow me to use the paddles and always have it in manual mode, but I haven't ever tried them. I think that a good way of experiencing this engine would be to get a saloon version for 6 months when I have a drivway to store it on. Maybe even turn it into a track car, who knows.
The hunt is now on for a 2010 W212 E63 AMG, I like the face better than the W211 but I still want that sweet sweet M156. Or maybe an C6 RS6. Or that generation S6 if I feel cheap. Or an XF-R Sportbrake if I can find one. The B5 Touring would be the holy grail, but if I'm willing to spend that much I probably have to start considering the C7 RS6 and the W213 C63.
I really hope it's not me that lives in a perpetual state of 'I want that one! Wait.... Maybe that one? Or even the other one?!?!'
Thanks again
I am exactly the same. Up to buying my recent Octavia vRS I was forever looking at what else I could buy. I have still been looking since buying it. I kid, I kid, thank you all for your input! Lucky for me, the fact they're so rare means that I can't really rush out, ignore all your advice and buy one anyway. Which I probably would have done.
There is a particular kind of hand control setup that would allow me to use the paddles and always have it in manual mode, but I haven't ever tried them. I think that a good way of experiencing this engine would be to get a saloon version for 6 months when I have a drivway to store it on. Maybe even turn it into a track car, who knows.
The hunt is now on for a 2010 W212 E63 AMG, I like the face better than the W211 but I still want that sweet sweet M156. Or maybe an C6 RS6. Or that generation S6 if I feel cheap. Or an XF-R Sportbrake if I can find one. The B5 Touring would be the holy grail, but if I'm willing to spend that much I probably have to start considering the C7 RS6 and the W213 C63.
I really hope it's not me that lives in a perpetual state of 'I want that one! Wait.... Maybe that one? Or even the other one?!?!'
Thanks again
If you're ever planning to be near Aylesbury and want to experience the M5 in "auto" let me know.
Undoubtedly one of the greatest N/A engine ever ,wtf are you sure...and yes I have and still do own one , ...flawed it absolutely is as a car ,long in the tooth they are now ,if it was one of the greatest n/a engines of all time ,folk bang on about how it was the last true M car ,what a load of s
t ,what the e60 and e61 are in reality are the first bmw m cars that won't make classic car status ...owned mine now for nearly 10 yrs so I feel qualified to make such a statement ,folks get carried away owning m division cars to the point they wet their pants at times in excitement ,again something else I don't get ,I work in the industry and it's been evident for a long time that bmw build quality and reliability is questionable at best ...let's put it this way my 2005 e60 m5 when I bought it had 54k on clock it's now done 18k more in the 10 yrs I've owned it ,an AUC ( which means pretty much fk all ) let's be honest ,currently almost hitting £35k in warranty work in 18k miles of ownership ,last 24 months my local main dealer has had the car for 15 months of that ,20k + of warranty work in last 1000 miles ,so please don't tell me these cars are not flawed ....own Any M devision car without warranty at your peril ,certainly don't buy an old e60 or 61 without mondial ,but good luck with that ,and yes the gearbox is a fking bag of dicks ,them who say different don't ha e a clue what they are on about ,
t ,what the e60 and e61 are in reality are the first bmw m cars that won't make classic car status ...owned mine now for nearly 10 yrs so I feel qualified to make such a statement ,folks get carried away owning m division cars to the point they wet their pants at times in excitement ,again something else I don't get ,I work in the industry and it's been evident for a long time that bmw build quality and reliability is questionable at best ...let's put it this way my 2005 e60 m5 when I bought it had 54k on clock it's now done 18k more in the 10 yrs I've owned it ,an AUC ( which means pretty much fk all ) let's be honest ,currently almost hitting £35k in warranty work in 18k miles of ownership ,last 24 months my local main dealer has had the car for 15 months of that ,20k + of warranty work in last 1000 miles ,so please don't tell me these cars are not flawed ....own Any M devision car without warranty at your peril ,certainly don't buy an old e60 or 61 without mondial ,but good luck with that ,and yes the gearbox is a fking bag of dicks ,them who say different don't ha e a clue what they are on about ,What I will also add is in my 10 yrs of ownership so far my warranty has cost me £13k in total in premiums ,but not far from treble that in excess free claims ...and ironically it went in for oil pump failure and before I got the car back from that repair it had total transmission failure ( new box ) since these 2 repairs have been done they have given me the car back twice and it's lasted 10 miles and 90 miles respective ,that was 1 month ago ,since then they have put new cats on it and now it's waiting for vent valves on back order apparently ,but tbh it's not just the e60 that's flawed it's bmw them selfs or certainly the dealership I use ,the first time I got my car back after oil pump and gearbox replacement my I drive said I was still due a oil filter service in 3100 miles ,chap on service desk told me they changed the oil not the filter so didn't reset the OBS ....so again not only are these cars FLAWED they are FLAWED to fk ,as are the stealerships ...and as I'm led to believe the dealership I use are the sole importers of every new bmw to enter the country ....load of ste .....
k ,as are the stealerships ...and as I'm led to believe the dealership I use are the sole importers of every new bmw to enter the country ....load of ste .....Loved that engine and ran it quite hard. Had the car delimited at Hartge the day I picked up the M6 at the factory.
- wanted to see how fast it would go. Took two delimited cars out on the autobahn....and managed 7600 rpm in seventh gear....what a sound!!!......
My old vid here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
- wanted to see how fast it would go. Took two delimited cars out on the autobahn....and managed 7600 rpm in seventh gear....what a sound!!!......
My old vid here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
At one point I had mine with a super sprint x pipe with resonator delete and straight pipes out the back ,now that was a sound but then I was served an asbo for the pleasure of v10 straight pipes ....but as a car and engine build quality it's as flawed as cars and engines go ,and as I've touched on don't even get me started with the flawed customer service from bmw ,the only thing I can't call flawed is mondial warranty
Sadface said:
At one point I had mine with a super sprint x pipe with resonator delete and straight pipes out the back ,now that was a sound but then I was served an asbo for the pleasure of v10 straight pipes ....but as a car and engine build quality it's as flawed as cars and engines go ,and as I've touched on don't even get me started with the flawed customer service from bmw ,the only thing I can't call flawed is mondial warranty
I had the M6 from new for five years. Worst thing was when the ECU went wrong. Took there dealer more than a week to replace the thing and have operational.Just the 1 week lol ,your lucky ,everything now parts wise is always on back order ,as I say my car went in 3 months ago ,since then it's had oil pump and a new gearbox ,got handed the car back it lasted 10 miles ,same red cog transmission I drive ,they said it was fueling issue so fitted 2 new cats/ manifolds ,have car back it lasted 90 miles ,they then said it was a hbox sensor ,again a week wait for part ,then got a phone call to ask my permission for the ( master tech ) to take it home for weekend for a extensive road test before they handed car back to me ..that was now 4 weeks ago
Perhaps you bought a st one? I know many M5 owners who haven't had half as much warranty work etc done as a group.
All engines are flawed in their own way, but the v10 really is a marvelous engine.
You've owned your car for 10 years yet barely done 1800 miles a year in it. These cars don't like to be sat around doing nothing. I do your yearly average in 2 months. My car may have had issues (mechanics fault, not the cars) but it sounds like it has been a much better car than yours. You cannot tar all cars with the same brush.
Wrt your comments on the gearbox, and saying other people who have a different opinion don't know what they're talking about. I don't know who died and made you the authority on such things, but really you're talking bs, like most of your posting. You seem very angry about a car you still own. Maybe you should sell it seeing as how you hate it so much? Go buy yourself a nice Prius.
t one? I know many M5 owners who haven't had half as much warranty work etc done as a group.All engines are flawed in their own way, but the v10 really is a marvelous engine.
You've owned your car for 10 years yet barely done 1800 miles a year in it. These cars don't like to be sat around doing nothing. I do your yearly average in 2 months. My car may have had issues (mechanics fault, not the cars) but it sounds like it has been a much better car than yours. You cannot tar all cars with the same brush.
Wrt your comments on the gearbox, and saying other people who have a different opinion don't know what they're talking about. I don't know who died and made you the authority on such things, but really you're talking bs, like most of your posting. You seem very angry about a car you still own. Maybe you should sell it seeing as how you hate it so much? Go buy yourself a nice Prius.
Sadface said:
Just the 1 week lol ,your lucky ,everything now parts wise is always on back order ,as I say my car went in 3 months ago ,since then it's had oil pump and a new gearbox ,got handed the car back it lasted 10 miles ,same red cog transmission I drive ,they said it was fueling issue so fitted 2 new cats/ manifolds ,have car back it lasted 90 miles ,they then said it was a hbox sensor ,again a week wait for part ,then got a phone call to ask my permission for the ( master tech ) to take it home for weekend for a extensive road test before they handed car back to me ..that was now 4 weeks ago
Wow, what an absolute nightmare... Would be enough to make me hate the car, no matter how much I enjoyed driving it.
TheAngryDog, if you don't mind in these COVID times then I'd gladly take you up on the offer of a ride in the car to see how bad it is. Thank you so much for offering! There are two E61s just listed on Autotrader and I'm trying to be sensible buuuttttt....
Of course, this is the sensible option:
Of course, this is the sensible option:
leglessAlex said:
TheAngryDog, if you don't mind in these COVID times then I'd gladly take you up on the offer of a ride in the car to see how bad it is. Thank you so much for offering! There are two E61s just listed on Autotrader and I'm trying to be sensible buuuttttt....
Of course, this is the sensible option:
I am fine with it if you are. I am currently not suffering with it, have no symptoms. Even if you decide to get the E63 then I would still be happy to take you out in mine. Tbf I don't necessarily mind a drive out generally. Of course, this is the sensible option:
One thing to check on the m157 in that e63 is the engine / vin number. Some of the early cars had engines that suffered with timing chain issues. A bit more info here
https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/cls63-e63-timi...
Edited by TheAngryDog on Monday 12th October 00:40
jm doc said:
...Who would ever want to drive one of these in auto for more than a few minutes ffs...
Missed this when you posted it, but I asked because I cannot practically drive it in manual mode due to needing hand controls. Obviously I realise that I'm in the minority, but it is a shame that considering the car is fitted with an automatic mode, it's borderline unusable in said mode!Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff