M3 E92 stage 2 affect on value

M3 E92 stage 2 affect on value

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Cl4rkyPH

Original Poster:

266 posts

46 months

Friday 12th February 2021
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Looking for some advice from the M wizards on here!

I picked up my M3 E92 in August and have been loving it.

I had the rod bearings done at Evolve and the throttle actuators were already refurbished by a previous owner.

I have been considering lowering the front end (in my opinion the height of the front end is the worst trait of the car in stock form) and stage 2 tuning it with Evolve’s package. The latter modification being very popular, to bring out the true V8 symphony.

Now I know any suspension modification is easily reversible but I am wondering what affect the stage 2 tune will have on the car’s value.

Evolve’s stage 2 tune includes removal of the primary cats and delete pipes installed instead, my thinking is that installing the cats back on at a later date would be expensive, or impossible.

I’m aware of the value of these cars and how my investment is somewhat protected with the car in stock form, so I’m just concerned I will lose some of my investment if I modify it.

I can’t see many of these cars for sale with stage 2’s so either they aren’t for sale, or people don’t put it on the advert.

I guess my question is, would you be put off buying an M3 that has been stage 2 tuned or would it not bother you at all?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Car for attention:


MrBarry123

6,025 posts

120 months

Friday 12th February 2021
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I hope to be considering the purchase of a LCI E92 M3 in the not too distant future and yes, a car with the stage 2 work you’ve outlined would be ruled out in my search.

Fantastic looking things regardless though.

MDubyaB

184 posts

157 months

Friday 12th February 2021
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I’ve owned mine for a few years and wouldn’t be put off at all by mods, if they were mods I was happy with.

From my experience, you have nothing to worry about. Plenty of buyers would be more than happy for that work to already be done.

JMBMWM5

2,283 posts

197 months

Friday 12th February 2021
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Gains will be very minimal on that Engine, hardly noticeable, wast of money IMO, did it to mine, got low BHP.

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Friday 12th February 2021
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JMBMWM5 said:
Gains will be very minimal on that Engine, hardly noticeable, wast of money IMO, did it to mine, got low BHP.
Have to disagree with this. While you won’t see the same gains you would get on a turbocharged car, for obvious reasons, the primary cats on this car really strangle the low end throttle response and mid range torque on this car.

Partly this is because of the combination of a high revving engine and not inconsiderable kerb weight.

OP - my advice would be we remove your mid section / X-pipe and store it. The either buy a used unit with gutted primary cats or fit test pipes (also known as cat delete pipes) to ensure you can return the car to stock.

Also bear in mind that the MOT rules have recently changed so that you can now fail on a visual inspection if you have the test / delete pipes fitted, even if you still meet emissions regs (which you will on a warm car as the secondary cats are still in place).

There are 2 companies I know of who can ‘gut’ the cats, but if it were me I’d look at getting the decaf version second had rather than butchering my OEM mid-section.

Cl4rkyPH

Original Poster:

266 posts

46 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Thanks everyone for the replies.

survivalist said:
JMBMWM5 said:
Gains will be very minimal on that Engine, hardly noticeable, wast of money IMO, did it to mine, got low BHP.
Have to disagree with this. While you won’t see the same gains you would get on a turbocharged car, for obvious reasons, the primary cats on this car really strangle the low end throttle response and mid range torque on this car.

Partly this is because of the combination of a high revving engine and not inconsiderable kerb weight.

OP - my advice would be we remove your mid section / X-pipe and store it. The either buy a used unit with gutted primary cats or fit test pipes (also known as cat delete pipes) to ensure you can return the car to stock.

Also bear in mind that the MOT rules have recently changed so that you can now fail on a visual inspection if you have the test / delete pipes fitted, even if you still meet emissions regs (which you will on a warm car as the secondary cats are still in place).

There are 2 companies I know of who can ‘gut’ the cats, but if it were me I’d look at getting the decaf version second had rather than butchering my OEM mid-section.
I’m of the same opinion. I think the small increase in performance and noise is well worth it.

Thank you for the info around MOT’s. If I can just query that though... my understanding was that because the test pipes I’m looking at had sensors, then these would still pass an MOT?

Also, and sorry if I’m being dense! But you’ve confused me with your references to removing just my mid-section? Wouldn’t I have to remove the whole system if I was going to replace it with a gutted version?

The other point to note is, I’m also interested in Evolve’s remap, not just the cat delete.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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I doubt it will affect value much if at all. These cars have plumetted in value recently already and yours seems to have had the common issues addressed so if anything should be more desireable than most.

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Cl4rkyPH said:
I’m of the same opinion. I think the small increase in performance and noise is well worth it.

Thank you for the info around MOT’s. If I can just query that though... my understanding was that because the test pipes I’m looking at had sensors, then these would still pass an MOT?

Also, and sorry if I’m being dense! But you’ve confused me with your references to removing just my mid-section? Wouldn’t I have to remove the whole system if I was going to replace it with a gutted version?

The other point to note is, I’m also interested in Evolve’s remap, not just the cat delete.
The exhaust is made up of a few sections. The ‘cat back’ element is really just the back box and some pipes. The ‘mid’ section or ‘x-pipe’ contains both sets of cats. When you fit test pipes you are just cutting of the primary cats and bolting a piece of pipe with mounting points for the sensors in their place.

I’d happily mod the rear section as you can always have it returned to standard spec. I’d not mod the mid section as if you gut the cats you can’t ‘un-gut’ them.

The pic below is a standard unit. The right hand side is the primary cats and the secondary cats are in the middle.

Due to change in the MoT rules, the exhaust now has to meet visual inspection as well as emissions. While the secondary cats will allow you meet emissions. It’s pretty obvious that you have chopped your exhaust to remove the primary cats when you have test pipes fitted. If you have a friendly MoT tester then you may be ok, but I know of a few people who have recently failed due to exhaust mods.

There’s also a reasonable comparison of test pipes vs gutted OEM cats here:

https://youtu.be/JoKCFFfQJt4







Edited by survivalist on Saturday 13th February 07:33

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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I wish it was as easy to do on the e60 M5. The cats are part of the manifold which makes it an expensive job to decat.

Op, just do it. You'll notice the difference and you can always return to standard if you are worried about value in the future. I wouldn't be.

Max Maxasson

406 posts

182 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Firstly...if I was looking for another E92 M3 I wouldn't touch a moded car with a bargepole.
The ion sensing anti knock system monitors the combustion process and attempts to keep it as close as possible to edge of knocking.
This leaves not that much room for remapping.
For best performance from a std car you need to stick to high octane fuel with preferably zero ethanol content and from the same outlet brand.

Cl4rkyPH

Original Poster:

266 posts

46 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
quotequote all
Thank you to all.

Certainly some differing opinions.

The car only gets fed V Power and to be honest it’s unleashing the noise of the V8 that’s my main priority. The car sounds really tame in stock form.

Evolve are really good at what they do and I’ve not heard this issue with knocking on a remapped NA engine before... I will look into this.

Pizzaeatingking

493 posts

70 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Can the exhaust not be replace keeping the original system for reverting to standard?

rassi

2,447 posts

250 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Why don’t you try the 2 pipe mod first? It is by far the cheapest (and IMO best) thing you could do to the exhaust, and there is zero drone and just makes it sound the way it should have from the factory.

Max Maxasson

406 posts

182 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
quotequote all
I had the back box modded on my car...I think I went a bit too far - people started looking round to see what on earth was coming...it did sound epic though.
I had to have it redone to be a bit quieter - still sounded great.
A common fairly simple inexpensive job that doesn't affect the way the car runs at all.

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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I’d agree on the backbox mod, but I think the primary cat delete (by whatever means) is required for the stage 2 remap.

Colinv6

93 posts

92 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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I got mine in September, haven’t even done 100 miles since then mind you, but it’s too nice to use in the winter lol.

Anyways, I had the dealership fit the M Perf exhaust before I collected which sounds absolutely fantastic, and I was considering the evolve stage 2 package as well, but 2 factors put me off. First once the ECU has been touched, it can never be fully original again. Yes a map can be removed and tuners love to tell you this, but if you look, you’ll see easily its been done in the past.

Secondly, the primary decats with the MPE exhaust can lead to quite a raspy hollow tone, and I wasn’t willing to take the plunge on it incase I hated it.

So instead I’ve ordered the evolve /Eventuri carbon plenum. Which I think paired with the MPE will provide absolute aural nirvana. biggrin

tejr

3,101 posts

163 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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When I bought my m3 I also completed discounted any "stage x" cars..

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
quotequote all
Colinv6 said:
I got mine in September, haven’t even done 100 miles since then mind you, but it’s too nice to use in the winter lol.

Anyways, I had the dealership fit the M Perf exhaust before I collected which sounds absolutely fantastic, and I was considering the evolve stage 2 package as well, but 2 factors put me off. First once the ECU has been touched, it can never be fully original again. Yes a map can be removed and tuners love to tell you this, but if you look, you’ll see easily its been done in the past.

Secondly, the primary decats with the MPE exhaust can lead to quite a raspy hollow tone, and I wasn’t willing to take the plunge on it incase I hated it.

So instead I’ve ordered the evolve /Eventuri carbon plenum. Which I think paired with the MPE will provide absolute aural nirvana. biggrin
How many people interrogate the ECU before buying a used car? Although I guess it could be an issue if you had a warranty claim big enough for the warranty company to investigate. However, if you don’t want people to easily identify previous models, then keeping the OEM exhaust intact and gutting a spare X-pipe makes sense. Enough of these being broken for parts that you can easily source once these days.

I’ve heard the M Performance exhaust with a decat X-pipe and it is indeed very raspy. I’d go so far as to say that a standard or mildly modded OEM backbox sounds better with a decat.

Unless you’re buying an ultra rare & low mileage investment car, then surely it’s better to enjoy it rather than worry too much about resale.

Pistonheader101

2,206 posts

106 months

Sunday 14th February 2021
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Would happily buy it as it’s had the rod bearings done. Any other m3cutter would too.

Colinv6

93 posts

92 months

Sunday 14th February 2021
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survivalist said:
How many people interrogate the ECU before buying a used car? Although I guess it could be an issue if you had a warranty claim big enough for the warranty company to investigate. However, if you don’t want people to easily identify previous models, then keeping the OEM exhaust intact and gutting a spare X-pipe makes sense. Enough of these being broken for parts that you can easily source once these days.

I’ve heard the M Performance exhaust with a decat X-pipe and it is indeed very raspy. I’d go so far as to say that a standard or mildly modded OEM backbox sounds better with a decat.

Unless you’re buying an ultra rare & low mileage investment car, then surely it’s better to enjoy it rather than worry too much about resale.
X pipe seemingly a lot more raspy than test pipes, but X pipe is bolt on/off. Test pipes need the OEM pipe cutting so not reversible without a bit of work. It’s not crazy low milage on mine at 41k but it’s tooooo clean to be worrying about ruining all the underneath with salt. Tend to just use the wife’s M140i or the Navara pickup in the winter biggrin

M3 just sits in the garage all warm and cosy smile