M- cars - cooler in general than a much pricier 911/R8?
Discussion
Was thinking about cars in general the other day and was bemoaning the fact that a lot of brands have become more about "image" than substance and engineering. I have a theory that proper M cars are in fact 'cooler' than many pricier thoroughbred performance cars:
1. An M car marks you out as someone who cares about driving, the thrill and car control dynamics of oversteer, and the balance of a well sorted chassis
2. An M car has excellent performance but isn't as shouty and "look-at-me" as a Porsche/Audi R8 etc., it has ability without the need to be a distasteful poseur
3. An M car is still relatable to a 'normal' car that Joe Public would buy, but to those who 'know' the pedigree, an M car garners the appropriate enthusiast respect
4. An M car generally still has 4 seats and a usable boot - making it a practical everyday option
5. An M car has a duality of personality - fulfilling your 'balls-out mental' side and your 'sensible practical' side
6. An M car is fun on track and fun on the road, not one or the other
7. An M car is generally much more cost effective to run than the "premium" service and maintenance costs of most other performance cars
Just my random musings!
1. An M car marks you out as someone who cares about driving, the thrill and car control dynamics of oversteer, and the balance of a well sorted chassis
2. An M car has excellent performance but isn't as shouty and "look-at-me" as a Porsche/Audi R8 etc., it has ability without the need to be a distasteful poseur
3. An M car is still relatable to a 'normal' car that Joe Public would buy, but to those who 'know' the pedigree, an M car garners the appropriate enthusiast respect
4. An M car generally still has 4 seats and a usable boot - making it a practical everyday option
5. An M car has a duality of personality - fulfilling your 'balls-out mental' side and your 'sensible practical' side
6. An M car is fun on track and fun on the road, not one or the other
7. An M car is generally much more cost effective to run than the "premium" service and maintenance costs of most other performance cars
Just my random musings!
As an owner of an (older) Porsche I was intrigued by your opening post.
My image of recent M cars is loud exhausts, blingy wheels/ body kits and seen cruising around city centres at night. This sort of thing:
I probably don’t notice the M cars which align with your view as they are subtle, unfortunately it is the extremes which get noticed.
I think the same probably applies to other makes. My 911 is an old Carrera in black and is not as bling as many newer 911. I enjoy driving it and many of your points in the OP arguably apply to it. I expect though your view of 911 is skewed in a similar way to my view of M cars is. You are far more likely to spot the extremes, the blinged up 911 (or R8) cruising around the city at night.
It seems to me that your observation is more about the type of owner rather than the car.
My image of recent M cars is loud exhausts, blingy wheels/ body kits and seen cruising around city centres at night. This sort of thing:
I probably don’t notice the M cars which align with your view as they are subtle, unfortunately it is the extremes which get noticed.
I think the same probably applies to other makes. My 911 is an old Carrera in black and is not as bling as many newer 911. I enjoy driving it and many of your points in the OP arguably apply to it. I expect though your view of 911 is skewed in a similar way to my view of M cars is. You are far more likely to spot the extremes, the blinged up 911 (or R8) cruising around the city at night.
It seems to me that your observation is more about the type of owner rather than the car.
Scrump said:
As an owner of an (older) Porsche I was intrigued by your opening post.
My image of recent M cars is loud exhausts, blingy wheels/ body kits and seen cruising around city centres at night. This sort of thing:
I probably don’t notice the M cars which align with your view as they are subtle, unfortunately it is the extremes which get noticed.
My image of recent M cars is loud exhausts, blingy wheels/ body kits and seen cruising around city centres at night. This sort of thing:
I probably don’t notice the M cars which align with your view as they are subtle, unfortunately it is the extremes which get noticed.
Same for the local crowd around here too.OP - I would have agreed with your views 10-15 years ago, however over the past couple of years the number of people driving M cars either through urban areas on the rev limiter in 1st gear trying to emit exhaust pops, or doing the same thing but sat stationary in a car park.
It saddened me originally as this kind of behaviour used to be the preserve of the Fast Ford/VAG crowd, however I then realised I have very-little to no desire to own a 'modern' (post-2010ish) M car anyway, so it's largely immaterial
Alpinas still seem to be driven by normal drivers, and still maintain that subtlety and ability to 'fly under the radar' which aids their cool-factor IMO, however now they've been bought by BMW they'll probably go the same way as BMW Motorsport
might be a bit of rose tinted glasses on in your post OP but the points could be argued.
I have had quite a few M cars and all have been lovely to own. I certainly wouldn't tar the brush of the 911 or r8 ownership or demographic that you have tried to state.
Many/majority who would fork out for a 911 or R8 will be enthusiasts and will certainly want further exclusivity the M cars just can't provide.
Looks are subjective for everyone person who wants to be under the radar there is someone who wants something that more a piece of art.
Here nor there really.
All great cars
I have had quite a few M cars and all have been lovely to own. I certainly wouldn't tar the brush of the 911 or r8 ownership or demographic that you have tried to state.
Many/majority who would fork out for a 911 or R8 will be enthusiasts and will certainly want further exclusivity the M cars just can't provide.
Looks are subjective for everyone person who wants to be under the radar there is someone who wants something that more a piece of art.
Here nor there really.
All great cars
You might be right on the "rose tinted spectacles" reflection - perhaps this applied more 5-10 years ago vs the chavved up M cars we are seeing more of on the road today.
It's too broad a set of assumptions to apply universally of course - I guess the key point is there's something cool about the understated, wolf in sheep's clothing performance car..
It's too broad a set of assumptions to apply universally of course - I guess the key point is there's something cool about the understated, wolf in sheep's clothing performance car..
Agree with the comments above re "maybe 10-15 years ago".
The meaning of M car ownership changed in recent years when seemingly everyone got into an M4 due to cheap PCP deals - there were some relatively low monthly deals around a few years ago. A bit like the RRS now - so many around, but it's a £75K - £100K car!?
There are definitely those that choose an M car for it's capabilities, the driving experience, and to go under the radar (relative to say Porsche) - me included - but I suspect I'm in the minority now.
The meaning of M car ownership changed in recent years when seemingly everyone got into an M4 due to cheap PCP deals - there were some relatively low monthly deals around a few years ago. A bit like the RRS now - so many around, but it's a £75K - £100K car!?
There are definitely those that choose an M car for it's capabilities, the driving experience, and to go under the radar (relative to say Porsche) - me included - but I suspect I'm in the minority now.
daveknott5 said:
I guess the key point is there's something cool about the understated, wolf in sheep's clothing performance car..
Quote from this month's evo, editor mentions the M5 (non-comp) that he used to run as a long-term test car "that car took the definition of 'sleeper' to extremes".As you say OP, got to love a sleeper!
BlueJ said:
daveknott5 said:
I guess the key point is there's something cool about the understated, wolf in sheep's clothing performance car..
Quote from this month's evo, editor mentions the M5 (non-comp) that he used to run as a long-term test car "that car took the definition of 'sleeper' to extremes".
As you say OP, got to love a sleeper!
R8? Possibly, just too everyman.popeyewhite said:
Evo is wrong, the M5 isn't a sleeper. Perhaps the wheels, quad exhausts, bodykit and M5 badges give the game away.
On the other hand there is a gleaming blue comp pack around me which you can't help but notice.
It was the case, but as others have posted it isn't anymore. Subtlety went out the window a few years back, not just BMW but all major manufacturers. AMG and Audi RS also used to look classy and restrained, but like BMW now, they are all just so vulgar.
Edited by MikeM6 on Thursday 19th May 15:18
It all started with the E46 M3. The e36 M3 had different mirrors wheels and brakes, but to most looked like a 318is or 320/328 Sport.
The E46 had the arches, bonnet hump and quad exhausts and if got more aggressive looking from there.
I’d say the M5 is more subtle.
That’s all to a petrolhead though. To most people it’s just a noisier 3/5 series.
For me, the main difference compared to a 911 is practicality. I’d love a 911 GTS or Turbo, but the reason I own an M3 is that I need rear seats + luggage space + (very occasionally) a roof box,
If I take the M3 on a weeks holiday I might get a few good hours driving in. If I had a 911 I’d not be taking it on holiday.
The E46 had the arches, bonnet hump and quad exhausts and if got more aggressive looking from there.
I’d say the M5 is more subtle.
That’s all to a petrolhead though. To most people it’s just a noisier 3/5 series.
For me, the main difference compared to a 911 is practicality. I’d love a 911 GTS or Turbo, but the reason I own an M3 is that I need rear seats + luggage space + (very occasionally) a roof box,
If I take the M3 on a weeks holiday I might get a few good hours driving in. If I had a 911 I’d not be taking it on holiday.
daveknott5 said:
Was thinking about cars in general the other day and was bemoaning the fact that a lot of brands have become more about "image" than substance and engineering. I have a theory that proper M cars are in fact 'cooler' than many pricier thoroughbred performance cars:
1. An M car marks you out as someone who cares about driving, the thrill and car control dynamics of oversteer, and the balance of a well sorted chassis
2. An M car has excellent performance but isn't as shouty and "look-at-me" as a Porsche/Audi R8 etc., it has ability without the need to be a distasteful poseur
3. An M car is still relatable to a 'normal' car that Joe Public would buy, but to those who 'know' the pedigree, an M car garners the appropriate enthusiast respect
4. An M car generally still has 4 seats and a usable boot - making it a practical everyday option
5. An M car has a duality of personality - fulfilling your 'balls-out mental' side and your 'sensible practical' side
6. An M car is fun on track and fun on the road, not one or the other
7. An M car is generally much more cost effective to run than the "premium" service and maintenance costs of most other performance cars
Just my random musings!
I don’t hate BMW or M cars. But probably couldn’t disagree more on some of those points. They have vulgar shouty styling these days. And while they perform well. They Certainly seemed aimed at people caring more about image than driving. And way too many seem to be driven by utter cocks with no respect for other road users. 1. An M car marks you out as someone who cares about driving, the thrill and car control dynamics of oversteer, and the balance of a well sorted chassis
2. An M car has excellent performance but isn't as shouty and "look-at-me" as a Porsche/Audi R8 etc., it has ability without the need to be a distasteful poseur
3. An M car is still relatable to a 'normal' car that Joe Public would buy, but to those who 'know' the pedigree, an M car garners the appropriate enthusiast respect
4. An M car generally still has 4 seats and a usable boot - making it a practical everyday option
5. An M car has a duality of personality - fulfilling your 'balls-out mental' side and your 'sensible practical' side
6. An M car is fun on track and fun on the road, not one or the other
7. An M car is generally much more cost effective to run than the "premium" service and maintenance costs of most other performance cars
Just my random musings!
I absolutely love my F82 M4 even though it is obviously a lot heavier than the E30. The faster you go in it the more capable it gets for me, and it is a fantastic all round performance car imo.
The E30 M3 never did anything for me(I love the way it looks though), and I'd personally rather have a E30 325i for the 6 cylinder engine.
The E30 M3 never did anything for me(I love the way it looks though), and I'd personally rather have a E30 325i for the 6 cylinder engine.
Iv'e owned several M cars (E92 M3, E46 CSL, M135i, M2 Comp) and several Porsches (C4S, Cayman S, 997 Turbo) and have always landed on the BMW side. Few reasons for me:
Capability - Porsche products are too capable for the road, I would say they are a 70/30 Track/Road split where as M products are more 50/50. For me this works better as the cars can be used more and they also have a more "playful" nature and rear wheel biased.
Practicality: I can put a kid in the back and usual kid nonsense when required.
Character: The M Mode is unique and really makes you feel like you have 2 cars in one. I can drive it to the track in comfort, cook the brakes and have a load of fun, then drive home in same comfort.
Understated: I don't want to turn heads or be noticed. Nobody cares or knows what my M2C is and I like that I can park it "anywhere".
Capability - Porsche products are too capable for the road, I would say they are a 70/30 Track/Road split where as M products are more 50/50. For me this works better as the cars can be used more and they also have a more "playful" nature and rear wheel biased.
Practicality: I can put a kid in the back and usual kid nonsense when required.
Character: The M Mode is unique and really makes you feel like you have 2 cars in one. I can drive it to the track in comfort, cook the brakes and have a load of fun, then drive home in same comfort.
Understated: I don't want to turn heads or be noticed. Nobody cares or knows what my M2C is and I like that I can park it "anywhere".
dufflecoat said:
Iv'e owned several M cars (E92 M3, E46 CSL, M135i, M2 Comp) and several Porsches (C4S, Cayman S, 997 Turbo) and have always landed on the BMW side. Few reasons for me:
Capability - Porsche products are too capable for the road, I would say they are a 70/30 Track/Road split where as M products are more 50/50. For me this works better as the cars can be used more and they also have a more "playful" nature and rear wheel biased.
Practicality: I can put a kid in the back and usual kid nonsense when required.
Character: The M Mode is unique and really makes you feel like you have 2 cars in one. I can drive it to the track in comfort, cook the brakes and have a load of fun, then drive home in same comfort.
Understated: I don't want to turn heads or be noticed. Nobody cares or knows what my M2C is and I like that I can park it "anywhere".
I agree with this. For me, performance BMW’s (that includes M lites as I currently have an M240i) are pretty much the most fun you can have at road speeds. Sure a Porsche might be faster but they are so capable that at anything lower than silly speeds they are dull. M cars aren’t the fastest or most capable, however they are fun and engaging. Capability - Porsche products are too capable for the road, I would say they are a 70/30 Track/Road split where as M products are more 50/50. For me this works better as the cars can be used more and they also have a more "playful" nature and rear wheel biased.
Practicality: I can put a kid in the back and usual kid nonsense when required.
Character: The M Mode is unique and really makes you feel like you have 2 cars in one. I can drive it to the track in comfort, cook the brakes and have a load of fun, then drive home in same comfort.
Understated: I don't want to turn heads or be noticed. Nobody cares or knows what my M2C is and I like that I can park it "anywhere".
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