S63TU failures - M5, M6 & M6 GC

S63TU failures - M5, M6 & M6 GC

Author
Discussion

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Monday 17th April 2023
quotequote all
On top-ups, mine didn’t use oil between services for perhaps the first 80-90k miles.

Since then its generally wanted one every 3k miles so when I’m on a long distance trip I just make sure I have a few in the cubby hole in the boot.

The cars due to go to Berlin and back, Serbia and back, and tuscany and back over the next 6 months. That should take her to about 160k. Never let me down yet.

JMBMWM5

2,283 posts

197 months

Monday 17th April 2023
quotequote all
theboss said:
On top-ups, mine didn’t use oil between services for perhaps the first 80-90k miles.

Since then its generally wanted one every 3k miles so when I’m on a long distance trip I just make sure I have a few in the cubby hole in the boot.

The cars due to go to Berlin and back, Serbia and back, and tuscany and back over the next 6 months. That should take her to about 160k. Never let me down yet.
Fantastic mileage well done.

dgm

97 posts

207 months

Monday 17th April 2023
quotequote all
Just to add to this, I bought a 2017 X5M as an AUC in January this year with 37k miles. The car had 3 previous owners and obviously full BMW service history. One month and 1000 miles later, the engine lost power suddenly accompanied by metallic grinding and knocking. I knew the engine was destroyed right away, it was patently obvious. There were no warning signs prior to the failure, no unusual noises and no warning lights. It was actually running really well.

After having the vehicle recovered, I suffered a complete pantomime from BMW in trying to get even an initial diagnosis carried out. The dealer in Glasgow that the car was taken to stated they couldn’t look at the car until late April. BMW UK Customer Services were extremely poor to deal with and it took weeks to get them to authorise moving the car to the supplying dealer in Liverpool.

Six weeks after it had broken down, I received confirmation that BMW had authorised under warranty, a new engine, new turbos and a raft of ancillary parts. I was read over the list of damage to the engine and my interpretation is that two rod bearings had spun causing damage to the block, camshaft and turbos. Unfortunately there are parts on back order and I’ve no idea when I’ll get the car back.

I actually read this thread amongst others before buying the car and decided I was definitely going for an AUC. Thank God I did! At the end of all this I’ll have a new engine in a car that’s in lovely condition overall and I see that as a good thing given my intention is to keep it for several years. At least I’ll know the new engine will be run in properly, warmed up properly before being driven hard and will ensure that the maintenance is a lot more frequent than the BMW intervals.

I love the X5M and the engine was amazing prior to letting go, however as others have said in this thread, you really don’t know how previous owners have treated it. By contrast, despite reading many a scare story about the S54 engine over the years, my Z4MC which I’ve had since 2006, has never had a single engine issue in my 16 years and 68k miles of ownership.

JMBMWM5

2,283 posts

197 months

Tuesday 18th April 2023
quotequote all
dgm said:
Just to add to this, I bought a 2017 X5M as an AUC in January this year with 37k miles. The car had 3 previous owners and obviously full BMW service history. One month and 1000 miles later, the engine lost power suddenly accompanied by metallic grinding and knocking. I knew the engine was destroyed right away, it was patently obvious. There were no warning signs prior to the failure, no unusual noises and no warning lights. It was actually running really well.

After having the vehicle recovered, I suffered a complete pantomime from BMW in trying to get even an initial diagnosis carried out. The dealer in Glasgow that the car was taken to stated they couldn’t look at the car until late April. BMW UK Customer Services were extremely poor to deal with and it took weeks to get them to authorise moving the car to the supplying dealer in Liverpool.

Six weeks after it had broken down, I received confirmation that BMW had authorised under warranty, a new engine, new turbos and a raft of ancillary parts. I was read over the list of damage to the engine and my interpretation is that two rod bearings had spun causing damage to the block, camshaft and turbos. Unfortunately there are parts on back order and I’ve no idea when I’ll get the car back.

I actually read this thread amongst others before buying the car and decided I was definitely going for an AUC. Thank God I did! At the end of all this I’ll have a new engine in a car that’s in lovely condition overall and I see that as a good thing given my intention is to keep it for several years. At least I’ll know the new engine will be run in properly, warmed up properly before being driven hard and will ensure that the maintenance is a lot more frequent than the BMW intervals.

I love the X5M and the engine was amazing prior to letting go, however as others have said in this thread, you really don’t know how previous owners have treated it. By contrast, despite reading many a scare story about the S54 engine over the years, my Z4MC which I’ve had since 2006, has never had a single engine issue in my 16 years and 68k miles of ownership.
Points to how it's been treated by previous owners IMO, I've had 4 F90 M5's and 2 F10 m5's, none have missed a beat.

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Tuesday 18th April 2023
quotequote all
It's interesting to hear it was the rod bearings. As mentioned earlier in the thread I had mine changed preventatively at 148k. The old ones looked absolutely fine but as the mechanics said, they could have gone on for another 150k or let go next week, there is just no way of knowing when something might spontaneously detonate.

My car was remapped between 25k and about 90k but restored to factory map when BMW did some work on it, and I decided not to tempt fate after that.

Again given the overall state of health my engine seemed to be in when the rod bearings were swapped, this doesn't appear to have done any damage.

I have always been meticulous about warming up, but kept to BMW's service schedule in the car's earlier life rather than preventatively changing oil on half intervals. I might also be able to put it down to the fact that my cars had a lot of fast motorway miles rather than many shorter 'harder' journeys.

dgm

97 posts

207 months

Tuesday 18th April 2023
quotequote all
JMBMWM5 said:
oints to how it's been treated by previous owners IMO, I've had 4 F90 M5's and 2 F10 m5's, none have missed a beat.
Can’t disagree with that, even after researching the potential faults prior to purchase I felt confident in buying one. Seems very uncommon for the S63 to fail at that mileage and you have to question how much sympathy the engine was given, particularly from cold.

E90_M3Ross

34,945 posts

211 months

Thursday 20th April 2023
quotequote all
It's quite eye-opening reading this thread. My old man used to have an M6 which he got at the end of 2012, it was a few months when he got it. I checked a while ago and its MOT expired in 2017.....I wonder if it suffered a similar fate!

I wonder what the reliability of the latest 6 cylinder in the M3/4 will be like in years to come. I have an S65 in my car, nowhere near as powerful as these beasts but they seem a very reliable unit, aside the odd rod bearing issue....just had mine does at 85k miles and they looked almost brand new. Indy who did it said it was a healthy engine, which was nice to hear!


TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Friday 21st April 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
It's quite eye-opening reading this thread. My old man used to have an M6 which he got at the end of 2012, it was a few months when he got it. I checked a while ago and its MOT expired in 2017.....I wonder if it suffered a similar fate!

I wonder what the reliability of the latest 6 cylinder in the M3/4 will be like in years to come. I have an S65 in my car, nowhere near as powerful as these beasts but they seem a very reliable unit, aside the odd rod bearing issue....just had mine does at 85k miles and they looked almost brand new. Indy who did it said it was a healthy engine, which was nice to hear!
The S55 can suffer rod bearings and has the crank hub issue. I think it may have an issue with the high pressure fuel pump, but I think overall they're not bad for reliability. I guess BMW had the N54 and N55 to perfect the S55. The B58 and S58 remain to be seen, but I think both are turning out to be very good reliability wise.

The S68 as I understand it, fixes a lot of the issues found in the S63. Whether it finds its way into the next M5 I don't know.

E90_M3Ross

34,945 posts

211 months

Friday 21st April 2023
quotequote all
TheAngryDog said:
E90_M3Ross said:
It's quite eye-opening reading this thread. My old man used to have an M6 which he got at the end of 2012, it was a few months when he got it. I checked a while ago and its MOT expired in 2017.....I wonder if it suffered a similar fate!

I wonder what the reliability of the latest 6 cylinder in the M3/4 will be like in years to come. I have an S65 in my car, nowhere near as powerful as these beasts but they seem a very reliable unit, aside the odd rod bearing issue....just had mine does at 85k miles and they looked almost brand new. Indy who did it said it was a healthy engine, which was nice to hear!
The S55 can suffer rod bearings and has the crank hub issue. I think it may have an issue with the high pressure fuel pump, but I think overall they're not bad for reliability. I guess BMW had the N54 and N55 to perfect the S55. The B58 and S58 remain to be seen, but I think both are turning out to be very good reliability wise.

The S68 as I understand it, fixes a lot of the issues found in the S63. Whether it finds its way into the next M5 I don't know.
What is it with BMW and rod bearings? hehe

Cheburator mk2

2,973 posts

198 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
Just a quick thread update...

5 days ago, as I was joining the M25 from the M20 the engine lost power, the gearbox went into neutral and the car coasted to a halt. Had the car recovered to a local dealer, who called yesterday to say that the crankshaft has welded itself to the rods. The engine cannot be turned over even with a breaker bar on the crank pulley...

Car is currently on 79.5k miles, with 16 services by BMW on the dot and funnily enough, the last one had been done about 100 miles prior.

BMW Warranty is facing a £27k bill for a new engine and I would contribute about £1.5k

Car is bone stock, and it has never had a map on it to the best of my knowledge. I am the 2nd owner, bought at 30k miles...

So yes, they are reliable - as in you can rely on them to grenade at some point...

On the flip side, when it works, it has been brilliant. So with a new engine, new transfer box, new air suspension components and given that it has over £30k of options, she woudl definitely be a keeper for a long time...

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
What is it with BMW and rod bearings? hehe
A fair question.

How often are rod bearing issues mentioned in relation to Mercedes or Audi performance engines?

bmwmike

6,918 posts

107 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
Just a quick thread update...

5 days ago, as I was joining the M25 from the M20 the engine lost power, the gearbox went into neutral and the car coasted to a halt. Had the car recovered to a local dealer, who called yesterday to say that the crankshaft has welded itself to the rods. The engine cannot be turned over even with a breaker bar on the crank pulley...

Car is currently on 79.5k miles, with 16 services by BMW on the dot and funnily enough, the last one had been done about 100 miles prior.

BMW Warranty is facing a £27k bill for a new engine and I would contribute about £1.5k

Car is bone stock, and it has never had a map on it to the best of my knowledge. I am the 2nd owner, bought at 30k miles...

So yes, they are reliable - as in you can rely on them to grenade at some point...

On the flip side, when it works, it has been brilliant. So with a new engine, new transfer box, new air suspension components and given that it has over £30k of options, she woudl definitely be a keeper for a long time...
Just as my AT search turned back to F10 M5's this happens. Sorry to hear of your woes and glad its mostly covered, but thanks for reminding me not to buy one unless its got a cast iron warranty (even then, we tend to use our cars for trips to ireland and france, so i'm not sure the engine going pop far from home is desirable either).

E90_M3Ross

34,945 posts

211 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
E90_M3Ross said:
What is it with BMW and rod bearings? hehe
A fair question.

How often are rod bearing issues mentioned in relation to Mercedes or Audi performance engines?
Never. Although they have their own issues. I do, however, think the rod bearings is not as big of an issue as internet folklore would have you believe. Many cars are advertised as "rod bearings done", and I suspect they were only done because someone had theirs fail and mentioned it online.

I had mine done out of precaution back in April, having done 85k miles. They were the original BMW bearings. They looked almost new, and had absolutely no need for changing at all.

Cheburator mk2

2,973 posts

198 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
Never. Although they have their own issues. I do, however, think the rod bearings is not as big of an issue as internet folklore would have you believe. Many cars are advertised as "rod bearings done", and I suspect they were only done because someone had theirs fail and mentioned it online.

I had mine done out of precaution back in April, having done 85k miles. They were the original BMW bearings. They looked almost new, and had absolutely no need for changing at all.
You are right, but the majority of them would need doing at some point. Moreover, when S54 engines were going for £3k, spending £1k with a specialist for bearings re-fresh was kind of not worth it. Now a good S54 lump is north of £7k if you can find one. Very similar for your chariot too - good S65s aren't exactly growing on trees.

I would do mine myself on the E46 M3 which has assumed daily duties. For the £300 in parts and 1/2 a day of work, it's definitely worth the effort...

Jamescrs

4,450 posts

64 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
Just as my AT search turned back to F10 M5's this happens. Sorry to hear of your woes and glad its mostly covered, but thanks for reminding me not to buy one unless its got a cast iron warranty (even then, we tend to use our cars for trips to ireland and france, so i'm not sure the engine going pop far from home is desirable either).
Indeed I have been looking at F10 M5's as a possible replacement for my current M240i but I have to say this thread has put me off it now which is a real shame but I simply can't afford a 25k+ repair bill

Back to the drawing board, maybe another BMW with the B58 engine which has been (touch wood) super reliable for me over the last 3 years.

MikeM6

4,985 posts

101 months

Saturday 1st July 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
Patrick Bateman said:
E90_M3Ross said:
What is it with BMW and rod bearings? hehe
A fair question.

How often are rod bearing issues mentioned in relation to Mercedes or Audi performance engines?
Never. Although they have their own issues. I do, however, think the rod bearings is not as big of an issue as internet folklore would have you believe. Many cars are advertised as "rod bearings done", and I suspect they were only done because someone had theirs fail and mentioned it online.

I had mine done out of precaution back in April, having done 85k miles. They were the original BMW bearings. They looked almost new, and had absolutely no need for changing at all.
I replaced the rod bearings on my M6 as soon as bought, despite only being on 54k, because of the reputation. Turns out I was right to do it, as they were worn to the copper and did need doing.

Since then I have warmed it through before driving over 3k rpm and I have changed the oil annually (about 2-3k miles) so I have far more confidence in the rod bearings not failing. Just not worth gambling with.

E90_M3Ross

34,945 posts

211 months

Saturday 1st July 2023
quotequote all
MikeM6 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
Patrick Bateman said:
E90_M3Ross said:
What is it with BMW and rod bearings? hehe
A fair question.

How often are rod bearing issues mentioned in relation to Mercedes or Audi performance engines?
Never. Although they have their own issues. I do, however, think the rod bearings is not as big of an issue as internet folklore would have you believe. Many cars are advertised as "rod bearings done", and I suspect they were only done because someone had theirs fail and mentioned it online.

I had mine done out of precaution back in April, having done 85k miles. They were the original BMW bearings. They looked almost new, and had absolutely no need for changing at all.
I replaced the rod bearings on my M6 as soon as bought, despite only being on 54k, because of the reputation. Turns out I was right to do it, as they were worn to the copper and did need doing.

Since then I have warmed it through before driving over 3k rpm and I have changed the oil annually (about 2-3k miles) so I have far more confidence in the rod bearings not failing. Just not worth gambling with.
I guess it depends on how previous owners treat the car, not just service history. Mine has full history except it is missing a service where it looks like it didn't have an oil change for over 3 years. However, shortly before the missing service was due it had an MOT which said rear brakes were in need of changing, there is no history for them having been done, yet clearly they have, so I suspect/hope it was done that. That said, the fact the rod bearings were very, very good suggests that the engine is healthy anyway so all is well.

Glad you managed to get yours done then if they were like that! I wonder if the current crop of M3/4/5/8 will have issues over the coming years.

MikeM6

4,985 posts

101 months

Saturday 1st July 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
...
Glad you managed to get yours done then if they were like that! I wonder if the current crop of M3/4/5/8 will have issues over the coming years.
Thanks, I was chuffed to get it done in time.

The S63 is making the S85 look like the reliable option sadly, so yeah the M5, M6 and M8 are looking vulnerable.

Lots of 1st and 2nd owners not caring about longevity, silly service intervals and remaps are at the heart of it I think.

E90_M3Ross

34,945 posts

211 months

Saturday 1st July 2023
quotequote all
To be fair the S85 is actually a pretty reliable lump, the rod bearings being the only significant issue.

bmwmike

6,918 posts

107 months

Saturday 1st July 2023
quotequote all
E90_M3Ross said:
To be fair the S85 is actually a pretty reliable lump, the rod bearings being the only significant issue.
My how far things have fallen when the S85 is considered pretty reliable. Do agree btw. I'd not be put off having an S85 but s63tu would make me 20p50p every time I'm driving it.