Discussion
aeropilot said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be wanting to pull the dizzy.
He shouldn't have to if just replacing the MSD box though....????
Ahh maybe I’ve got the wrong end of the stick!He shouldn't have to if just replacing the MSD box though....????
I thought Harry was changing the whole kit ?
So he’s looking to bin the MSD and fit a Chevy ECU
??
Apologies I’ve been out in the sun all day and probably drunk too much beer !
Lol
I will try amd make this clearer!
All of the electrics in the car date back to 1994: dizzy, coil, HT leads, MSD 6AL. I assume that it already has HEI distributor (coil in dizzy cap) as this was already old tech in 1994. Ignition coil doesn't look to be anything special, is unbranded.
Only 5v is getting to the ignition coil. This is why I assume the MSD box has failed.
Rather than just buy another MSD, which Will likely fail as well, and will be a pain to fit as id have to fit the new MSD loom too, as the new digital has different connections to the old non-digital ine, I thought i would go to standard setup i.e. just HEI distributor and a new ignition coil.
My questions for you fellas:
- do i really need an MSD spark amplification box for street driving and easy starting? Rosco seems to think so as low rev running is helped by the MSD. This is the opposite of what Gary of Gary's Shack told me, he said it is only of use at higher revs.
- fitting a new ignition coil is cheap and easy. Any recommendations for an upgrade from whatever is there now?
- Looks like my distributor is already GM HEI? It appears to work fine, so perhaps no need to change. Or is a new dizzy cap a worthwhile preventative maintenance upgrade?
Thanks, guys. Trying to learn, here, rather than just have to hand the car to a mechanic every time something goes wrong.
All of the electrics in the car date back to 1994: dizzy, coil, HT leads, MSD 6AL. I assume that it already has HEI distributor (coil in dizzy cap) as this was already old tech in 1994. Ignition coil doesn't look to be anything special, is unbranded.
Only 5v is getting to the ignition coil. This is why I assume the MSD box has failed.
Rather than just buy another MSD, which Will likely fail as well, and will be a pain to fit as id have to fit the new MSD loom too, as the new digital has different connections to the old non-digital ine, I thought i would go to standard setup i.e. just HEI distributor and a new ignition coil.
My questions for you fellas:
- do i really need an MSD spark amplification box for street driving and easy starting? Rosco seems to think so as low rev running is helped by the MSD. This is the opposite of what Gary of Gary's Shack told me, he said it is only of use at higher revs.
- fitting a new ignition coil is cheap and easy. Any recommendations for an upgrade from whatever is there now?
- Looks like my distributor is already GM HEI? It appears to work fine, so perhaps no need to change. Or is a new dizzy cap a worthwhile preventative maintenance upgrade?
Thanks, guys. Trying to learn, here, rather than just have to hand the car to a mechanic every time something goes wrong.
Harry Flashman said:
- do i really need an MSD spark amplification box for street driving and easy starting? Rosco seems to think so as low rev running is helped by the MSD. This is the opposite of what Gary of Gary's Shack told me, he said it is only of use at higher revs.
That's the opposite of my understanding, and others I know, which is as per Rosco says.Even MSD on their bumf about the 6AL system mention max benefit up to 3000rpm IIRC, not beyond 3000rpm.
Maybe some of the tricker newer MSD systems designed for racing applications are better at high rpm?
aeropilot said:
Harry Flashman said:
- do i really need an MSD spark amplification box for street driving and easy starting? Rosco seems to think so as low rev running is helped by the MSD. This is the opposite of what Gary of Gary's Shack told me, he said it is only of use at higher revs.
That's the opposite of my understanding, and others I know, which is as per Rosco says.Even MSD on their bumf about the 6AL system mention max benefit up to 3000rpm IIRC, not beyond 3000rpm.
Maybe some of the tricker newer MSD systems designed for racing applications are better at high rpm?
The limitations of the MSD box are not so much the 'box' - more the device that triggers it (so distributor or crank sensor) - units are 'good' for 10000 rpm or more.....so ideal for race applications.
Just to give an idea how good the MSD unit is - a few years ago before going to a car event I couldn't be ass'd to run the car dowwn to the nearest Shell garage for Super Unleaded......choosing to take a jerry can down the night before and fill it up with 15/16 litres of VPower.........turns out that I used the wrong pump (Derv) and added it to the Vettes tank later that evening. It was perhaps a 50/50 mix of petrol/diesel. Early next morning I quickly started-up and took off up the road so as not to disturb anyone.........100 yards up the road and it started pinking, running really rough (as the gas in the fuel line ran thru' and the derv mix came through) and was close to gassing-up. Saying it was like a WW2 ship battle with destroyers laying down smoke screens was no exaggeration - thick white clouds of smoke totally obliterated anything behind.......I'm sure the power of the MSD unit was the only reason why it just about kept running long enough return 100 yards or so back home.
Observations - 5v from MSD unit - was/is there a ballast resistor in the coil circuit? - If you have a HEI distributor is it functioning correctly? they don't have the best reputations. Has it got an advance curve optimised for your particular engine and cam set-up, and remembering if you replace it you'll likely as not need to optimise the new distributor.
Just to give an idea how good the MSD unit is - a few years ago before going to a car event I couldn't be ass'd to run the car dowwn to the nearest Shell garage for Super Unleaded......choosing to take a jerry can down the night before and fill it up with 15/16 litres of VPower.........turns out that I used the wrong pump (Derv) and added it to the Vettes tank later that evening. It was perhaps a 50/50 mix of petrol/diesel. Early next morning I quickly started-up and took off up the road so as not to disturb anyone.........100 yards up the road and it started pinking, running really rough (as the gas in the fuel line ran thru' and the derv mix came through) and was close to gassing-up. Saying it was like a WW2 ship battle with destroyers laying down smoke screens was no exaggeration - thick white clouds of smoke totally obliterated anything behind.......I'm sure the power of the MSD unit was the only reason why it just about kept running long enough return 100 yards or so back home.
Observations - 5v from MSD unit - was/is there a ballast resistor in the coil circuit? - If you have a HEI distributor is it functioning correctly? they don't have the best reputations. Has it got an advance curve optimised for your particular engine and cam set-up, and remembering if you replace it you'll likely as not need to optimise the new distributor.
Edited by roscobbc on Friday 20th June 11:08
Managed to get the small repairs done the the right B post,
Also had a small rat hole at the end of the right sill so cut and welded that,
Fully lipped the wheel arch , and cut the corrosion from the right rear quarter below the rear bumper,
This will require a small repair panel being fabricated, so a work Jobbie,
This was all Saturday,
Back to work tomorrow so the wife and I had one last blast in the B’
And enjoyed the fabulous weather,
Also had a small rat hole at the end of the right sill so cut and welded that,
Fully lipped the wheel arch , and cut the corrosion from the right rear quarter below the rear bumper,
This will require a small repair panel being fabricated, so a work Jobbie,
This was all Saturday,
Back to work tomorrow so the wife and I had one last blast in the B’
And enjoyed the fabulous weather,
Harry Flashman said:
Chaps, advice needed.
My old MSD box has failed, and I don't think I need it if I can fit an HEI kit? I only do road driving, so don't need the huge spark at high revs (I think).
If so, it doesnt look like a terrible job, so I thought i would have a go at it myself, as finding folk to do work is a pain as the car is stranded in the garage and I can't get it to anyone.
So, questions.
- which kit should I buy for a 427BB? Engine is pretty standard 1969 corvette but for Crane mild competition cam, 8 believe. I am guessing there is cheap Chinese rubbish, amd decent, reliable kit. Any pointers?
- i am a novice, but assume that all I have to do is fit the kit. No retuning of the carb will be necessary?
Sorry to ask newbie questions, but I would rather do that and learn, than pretend I know my stuff and get something wrong.
Pic of current distributor is below. I'd likely change all leads etc top, so again, any worthwhile upgrades?
Any of you chaps know how i can bypass the MSD box to try to start the car, with the dizzy above?My old MSD box has failed, and I don't think I need it if I can fit an HEI kit? I only do road driving, so don't need the huge spark at high revs (I think).
If so, it doesnt look like a terrible job, so I thought i would have a go at it myself, as finding folk to do work is a pain as the car is stranded in the garage and I can't get it to anyone.
So, questions.
- which kit should I buy for a 427BB? Engine is pretty standard 1969 corvette but for Crane mild competition cam, 8 believe. I am guessing there is cheap Chinese rubbish, amd decent, reliable kit. Any pointers?
- i am a novice, but assume that all I have to do is fit the kit. No retuning of the carb will be necessary?
Sorry to ask newbie questions, but I would rather do that and learn, than pretend I know my stuff and get something wrong.
Pic of current distributor is below. I'd likely change all leads etc top, so again, any worthwhile upgrades?
I finally have a Saturday free next weekend and can do some fiddling about...
This is nice, and sensibly priced. Love the cross ram equipped 440 
https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1875793
Shame the dash top has been drilled for the tach, but I'd guess its not the original one anyway, as its black, and I think it would originally be red as per the rest of the interior. I'd probably loose the modern tach, and get a correct red dash top if available from US, or just get that one recovered in red vinyl.
Also shame about the ghastly modern shift kit for the 727 as well, so that needs loosing, and the dash button change re-connected.
Other than the suspension height sorting out, and being fitted with an colour coded steelies with dog dish caps, its a great Max Wedge clone at a decent price.
Love these early Mopars
https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1875793
Shame the dash top has been drilled for the tach, but I'd guess its not the original one anyway, as its black, and I think it would originally be red as per the rest of the interior. I'd probably loose the modern tach, and get a correct red dash top if available from US, or just get that one recovered in red vinyl.
Also shame about the ghastly modern shift kit for the 727 as well, so that needs loosing, and the dash button change re-connected.
Other than the suspension height sorting out, and being fitted with an colour coded steelies with dog dish caps, its a great Max Wedge clone at a decent price.
Love these early Mopars
Harry Flashman said:
Harry Flashman said:
Chaps, advice needed.
My old MSD box has failed, and I don't think I need it if I can fit an HEI kit? I only do road driving, so don't need the huge spark at high revs (I think).
If so, it doesnt look like a terrible job, so I thought i would have a go at it myself, as finding folk to do work is a pain as the car is stranded in the garage and I can't get it to anyone.
So, questions.
- which kit should I buy for a 427BB? Engine is pretty standard 1969 corvette but for Crane mild competition cam, 8 believe. I am guessing there is cheap Chinese rubbish, amd decent, reliable kit. Any pointers?
- i am a novice, but assume that all I have to do is fit the kit. No retuning of the carb will be necessary?
Sorry to ask newbie questions, but I would rather do that and learn, than pretend I know my stuff and get something wrong.
Pic of current distributor is below. I'd likely change all leads etc top, so again, any worthwhile upgrades?
Any of you chaps know how i can bypass the MSD box to try to start the car, with the dizzy above?My old MSD box has failed, and I don't think I need it if I can fit an HEI kit? I only do road driving, so don't need the huge spark at high revs (I think).
If so, it doesnt look like a terrible job, so I thought i would have a go at it myself, as finding folk to do work is a pain as the car is stranded in the garage and I can't get it to anyone.
So, questions.
- which kit should I buy for a 427BB? Engine is pretty standard 1969 corvette but for Crane mild competition cam, 8 believe. I am guessing there is cheap Chinese rubbish, amd decent, reliable kit. Any pointers?
- i am a novice, but assume that all I have to do is fit the kit. No retuning of the carb will be necessary?
Sorry to ask newbie questions, but I would rather do that and learn, than pretend I know my stuff and get something wrong.
Pic of current distributor is below. I'd likely change all leads etc top, so again, any worthwhile upgrades?
I finally have a Saturday free next weekend and can do some fiddling about...
Made up a repair section for the lower right quarter,
Zero stock of pressed sections so no choice really
It was obviously rusted back in 1980 when it was repainted and had a rubbish bit of metal tacked over the hole?
However it’s lasted till now so go figure!
I’m replacing the whole lower section as it’s impossible to tell just how deep pits are and safe to assume it’s F—-ked
So just remove it,
Not pretty I’d agree but once finally finished and full dressed it will be strong and clean,
Which I think illustrates perfectly that no matter how good an old car is there will always be some corrosion lurking somewhere!!
And with this build it’s totally about structural integrity,
Not shiny paint!
So now looking at subframe connectors as it would seem they actually do help stiffen the floor??
Been pulled off the car now as the wife is bored!
Zero stock of pressed sections so no choice really
It was obviously rusted back in 1980 when it was repainted and had a rubbish bit of metal tacked over the hole?
However it’s lasted till now so go figure!
I’m replacing the whole lower section as it’s impossible to tell just how deep pits are and safe to assume it’s F—-ked
So just remove it,
Not pretty I’d agree but once finally finished and full dressed it will be strong and clean,
Which I think illustrates perfectly that no matter how good an old car is there will always be some corrosion lurking somewhere!!
And with this build it’s totally about structural integrity,
Not shiny paint!
So now looking at subframe connectors as it would seem they actually do help stiffen the floor??
Been pulled off the car now as the wife is bored!
newsatten said:
Made up a repair section for the lower right quarter,
Zero stock of pressed sections so no choice really
It was obviously rusted back in 1980 when it was repainted and had a rubbish bit of metal tacked over the hole?
However it s lasted till now so go figure!
I m replacing the whole lower section as it s impossible to tell just how deep pits are and safe to assume it s F -ked
So just remove it,
Not pretty I d agree but once finally finished and full dressed it will be strong and clean,
Which I think illustrates perfectly that no matter how good an old car is there will always be some corrosion lurking somewhere!!
And with this build it s totally about structural integrity,
Not shiny paint!
So now looking at subframe connectors as it would seem they actually do help stiffen the floor??
Been pulled off the car now as the wife is bored!
Is this and the rad panel the two worst bits or crud you've had to cut out and fab..?Zero stock of pressed sections so no choice really
It was obviously rusted back in 1980 when it was repainted and had a rubbish bit of metal tacked over the hole?
However it s lasted till now so go figure!
I m replacing the whole lower section as it s impossible to tell just how deep pits are and safe to assume it s F -ked
So just remove it,
Not pretty I d agree but once finally finished and full dressed it will be strong and clean,
Which I think illustrates perfectly that no matter how good an old car is there will always be some corrosion lurking somewhere!!
And with this build it s totally about structural integrity,
Not shiny paint!
So now looking at subframe connectors as it would seem they actually do help stiffen the floor??
Been pulled off the car now as the wife is bored!
Oh, and
at the missus getting bored......Better send her back to work until you finish the T/A
Yep
Without doubt, I could have easily have just covered it but my ocd wouldn’t let me!
I’ll joggle the original quarter and once fully welded it will only require a small skim of gob to square the panel , this is an honest version of shell repairs ,
My shell is very good but definitely not perfect!
And you know the saying “ happy wife “ etc
And summer calls and we’ve been on the lash most of the day !
This is the one good thing about living on the coast
RR will know what I’m talking about,
Back on the tranny tomorrow!
Without doubt, I could have easily have just covered it but my ocd wouldn’t let me!
I’ll joggle the original quarter and once fully welded it will only require a small skim of gob to square the panel , this is an honest version of shell repairs ,
My shell is very good but definitely not perfect!
And you know the saying “ happy wife “ etc
And summer calls and we’ve been on the lash most of the day !
This is the one good thing about living on the coast
RR will know what I’m talking about,
Back on the tranny tomorrow!
newsatten said:
Yep
Without doubt, I could have easily have just covered it but my ocd wouldn t let me!
I ll joggle the original quarter and once fully welded it will only require a small skim of gob to square the panel , this is an honest version of shell repairs ,
My shell is very good but definitely not perfect!
And you know the saying happy wife etc
And summer calls and we ve been on the lash most of the day !
This is the one good thing about living on the coast
RR will know what I m talking about,
Back on the tranny tomorrow!
I certainly do, handy having a choice of so many beach's so close but being selfish not Without doubt, I could have easily have just covered it but my ocd wouldn t let me!
I ll joggle the original quarter and once fully welded it will only require a small skim of gob to square the panel , this is an honest version of shell repairs ,
My shell is very good but definitely not perfect!
And you know the saying happy wife etc
And summer calls and we ve been on the lash most of the day !
This is the one good thing about living on the coast
RR will know what I m talking about,
Back on the tranny tomorrow!
looking forward to the crazy period when the schools break up in July ,
Every man and his dog will be wondering around adding to the chaos we already have what
with most main and side roads dug up including a lot of the New Forest B roads just before and during
the summer holidays ,
Three lots of different road works with a camera controlled 50 mph speed limits going into 40 at times on one of our main motorways
to the busiest beach's in the area,
How did they come up with that one ,no sooner back into national speed limit it's time to brake for with next restricted part
To be honest if the weather i still good i always look forward to September along with May when things return to some normally,
Sorry turned into some kind of rant ,wasn't intended,
ratrod 2 said:
I certainly do, handy having a choice of so many beach's so close but being selfish not
looking forward to the crazy period when the schools break up in July ,
Every man and his dog will be wondering around adding to the chaos we already have what
with most main and side roads dug up including a lot of the New Forest B roads just before and during
the summer holidays ,
Three lots of different road works with a camera controlled 50 mph speed limits going into 40 at times on one of our main motorways
to the busiest beach's in the area,
How did they come up with that one ,no sooner back into national speed limit it's time to brake for with next restricted part
To be honest if the weather i still good i always look forward to September along with May when things return to some normally,
Sorry turned into some kind of rant ,wasn't intended,
Nope totally understand,looking forward to the crazy period when the schools break up in July ,
Every man and his dog will be wondering around adding to the chaos we already have what
with most main and side roads dug up including a lot of the New Forest B roads just before and during
the summer holidays ,
Three lots of different road works with a camera controlled 50 mph speed limits going into 40 at times on one of our main motorways
to the busiest beach's in the area,
How did they come up with that one ,no sooner back into national speed limit it's time to brake for with next restricted part
To be honest if the weather i still good i always look forward to September along with May when things return to some normally,
Sorry turned into some kind of rant ,wasn't intended,
Same here , every weekend we’re invaded
Nose to tail cars trying to get into the town for 3 miles
Almost impossible to park unless you’re here by 9 am
Blah blah
But sunny Fridays before the kid break up one can actually move around, get in a restaurant and the pubs
So that’s what we do,
We actually leave Whitstable if we go out over the weekends and generally in the opposite direction to the DFL’s !!! lol
And there lies the problem of living in a coastal locations. Theres one direction you can't go (Sea) - if lucky you may have a reasonable road in the opposite direction to the sea......otherwise it's the coastal roads (that everyone and his dog is forced to use).
Feel a bit like living in a 'coastal' location myself being close to M25 junction. London is effectively 'my sea'.......which I won't drive into even though I'm all ULEZ compliant.
At least the M25 'takes' the bulk of the traffic in our area allowing most locals to use 'B' roads and diverse routes to get around.
Feel a bit like living in a 'coastal' location myself being close to M25 junction. London is effectively 'my sea'.......which I won't drive into even though I'm all ULEZ compliant.
At least the M25 'takes' the bulk of the traffic in our area allowing most locals to use 'B' roads and diverse routes to get around.
roscobbc said:
And there lies the problem of living in a coastal locations. Theres one direction you can't go (Sea) - if lucky you may have a reasonable road in the opposite direction to the sea......otherwise it's the coastal roads (that everyone and his dog is forced to use).
Feel a bit like living in a 'coastal' location myself being close to M25 junction. London is effectively 'my sea'.......which I won't drive into even though I'm all ULEZ compliant.
At least the M25 'takes' the bulk of the traffic in our area allowing most locals to use 'B' roads and diverse routes to get around.
Rosco’s spot on it, damn sea !Feel a bit like living in a 'coastal' location myself being close to M25 junction. London is effectively 'my sea'.......which I won't drive into even though I'm all ULEZ compliant.
At least the M25 'takes' the bulk of the traffic in our area allowing most locals to use 'B' roads and diverse routes to get around.
Factor basically one major road through the east side of north Kent and chaos reins !
Been very sweaty today and I’ve been fully overalled grinding and welding , soooo tired now
Just the lower rear panel to complete now and the shells ready for gobbing and squaring
Once the final metal work is completed,
I’ll do a final sand and deburr , then blast the rear quarters and rear lamp panel and seal with epoxy
Once dry I’ll do the same to the roof and screen apertures,
I’ll be getting there by this maker , she’ll fully sealed and ready for the polyester stage,
And hopefully it will at some point resemble this !
I’ll do a final sand and deburr , then blast the rear quarters and rear lamp panel and seal with epoxy
Once dry I’ll do the same to the roof and screen apertures,
I’ll be getting there by this maker , she’ll fully sealed and ready for the polyester stage,
And hopefully it will at some point resemble this !
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