Implications of buying a watch on Rolex stolen list.
Discussion
Afternoon Gents,
Probably a stupid question and for the record I haven't bought a stolen watch, but just this week I have been offered 3 watches - my local Rolex dealer was kind enough to phone Rolex and check the status of these watches and it turns out that both of these watches are wanted by Rolex, naturally I declined to purchase these watches but the owners were shocked that these watches were on the list and had previously been bought in good faith from private individuals.
Any idea what percentage of watches are on the list? And what are the implications of owning one? I assume you can't get insurance for it, do people really buy watches without checking them first? or am I being too cautious?
Probably a stupid question and for the record I haven't bought a stolen watch, but just this week I have been offered 3 watches - my local Rolex dealer was kind enough to phone Rolex and check the status of these watches and it turns out that both of these watches are wanted by Rolex, naturally I declined to purchase these watches but the owners were shocked that these watches were on the list and had previously been bought in good faith from private individuals.
Any idea what percentage of watches are on the list? And what are the implications of owning one? I assume you can't get insurance for it, do people really buy watches without checking them first? or am I being too cautious?
Edited by Maz_uk on Thursday 28th March 18:34
Legally, stolen goods belong to the original owner (or their insurance co. after the ins co. have paid out.)
Any person attempting to sell the goods, whether or not they bought them in good faith has no title to the goods and so can not pass this title on.
So if you buy stolen goods, the legal owner can reclaim them from you and basically its your tough s
t.
You could then choose to pursue a civil case against the person that sold you the goods, sueing them for what ever you paid. Good luck with that one!
IANAL.
Any person attempting to sell the goods, whether or not they bought them in good faith has no title to the goods and so can not pass this title on.
So if you buy stolen goods, the legal owner can reclaim them from you and basically its your tough s
t.You could then choose to pursue a civil case against the person that sold you the goods, sueing them for what ever you paid. Good luck with that one!
IANAL.
Maz_uk said:
I haven't bought one!
I'm wondering how many watches or on the list, and how many of those who own the watches are actually listed ones?
Out of the 3 watches I've been offered this week 2 were on the list, surely it can't be that 2 out of 3 Rolex's are dodgy? (Small sample I know)
Are 2 out of the 3 Rolex you were offered dodgy - yesI'm wondering how many watches or on the list, and how many of those who own the watches are actually listed ones?
Out of the 3 watches I've been offered this week 2 were on the list, surely it can't be that 2 out of 3 Rolex's are dodgy? (Small sample I know)
Are 2 out of 3 Rolex dodgy - no
You won't find out anything about the Stolen register because Rolex won't even confirm it exists, but go to your AD and tell them about your stolen Rolex and you'll find it is possible for them to get things added to it.
As I understand it, if you present a watch to an AD for service and it is on the stolen register they will hold on to it and contact the police.
From recent experience it works. I had a number of Rolex stolen and all were placed on the register.
Two of them were found recently and the police traced them by contacting Rolex who confirmed they had been reported stolen and directed them to Goldsmiths, who directed them to the branch which sold them and on to me.
I will offer this interesting piece of information to anyone considering buying a Rolex without paperwork.
My insurance company asked for all the boxes etc for the stolen watches before they would even consider paying out.
It was looking like I had a fight on my hands about one when the Insurance co told me the box I sent for one Rolex was a fake.
Luckily for me this was one of the watches found and its now with Rolex for repair. So I guess it is legit after all.
Do your homework on the serial number, insist on corresponding paperwork and have it checked out. This is your only defence against buying something nicked or fake.
If anyone wants to take the chance of shelling out a grand and upwards for a watch which is easily identifiable and can be confiscated the first time it needs servicing they have either more money than sense or they are taking a risk and they know why. Either way I have little sympathy.
As I understand it, if you present a watch to an AD for service and it is on the stolen register they will hold on to it and contact the police.
From recent experience it works. I had a number of Rolex stolen and all were placed on the register.
Two of them were found recently and the police traced them by contacting Rolex who confirmed they had been reported stolen and directed them to Goldsmiths, who directed them to the branch which sold them and on to me.
I will offer this interesting piece of information to anyone considering buying a Rolex without paperwork.
My insurance company asked for all the boxes etc for the stolen watches before they would even consider paying out.
It was looking like I had a fight on my hands about one when the Insurance co told me the box I sent for one Rolex was a fake.
Luckily for me this was one of the watches found and its now with Rolex for repair. So I guess it is legit after all.
Do your homework on the serial number, insist on corresponding paperwork and have it checked out. This is your only defence against buying something nicked or fake.
If anyone wants to take the chance of shelling out a grand and upwards for a watch which is easily identifiable and can be confiscated the first time it needs servicing they have either more money than sense or they are taking a risk and they know why. Either way I have little sympathy.
Might I suggest that you write to their chief executive requesting a copy of their complaints procedure? Go through it and then complain to the ombudsman. I doubt that its the insurers policy, more likely to be a in an admin centre somewhere, but the ombudsman will soon settle it if they don't sort themselves out.
in an admin centre somewhere, but the ombudsman will soon settle it if they don't sort themselves out.I had a gold lady rolex stolen (Polish decorators) and the insurance company did not pay out.
They took the box and papers, and said they did not match the watch. As a member of the General Public I was confused and did not understand this, I bought from a shop and trusted watch seller.
The insurance noticed I was wearing a steel/gold rolex;I explained I wore the 'stolen' gold red face and diamonds for 'Best'. After questioning, I said I paid part exchange with previous Stainless Steel Rolex (bought for me when I graduated). The Assessor then thought I was 'trading' in rolex and thought this was dodgy.
I had to provide recent photographs of me wearing the 'stolen' gold watch, which I provided.
I had to provide dates when the 'stolen' gold watch was worn. I wore it to a job interview. They checked with that company and said I got the dates wrong (they claimed) so the Insurance said I was unreiiable, and they argued the watch wasn't stolen, and it didn't exist,and I was dodgy and unreliable.
- how much I wasted on highly inflated insurance premiums beggars belief.
ETA
No Names.
They took the box and papers, and said they did not match the watch. As a member of the General Public I was confused and did not understand this, I bought from a shop and trusted watch seller.
The insurance noticed I was wearing a steel/gold rolex;I explained I wore the 'stolen' gold red face and diamonds for 'Best'. After questioning, I said I paid part exchange with previous Stainless Steel Rolex (bought for me when I graduated). The Assessor then thought I was 'trading' in rolex and thought this was dodgy.
I had to provide recent photographs of me wearing the 'stolen' gold watch, which I provided.
I had to provide dates when the 'stolen' gold watch was worn. I wore it to a job interview. They checked with that company and said I got the dates wrong (they claimed) so the Insurance said I was unreiiable, and they argued the watch wasn't stolen, and it didn't exist,and I was dodgy and unreliable.
- how much I wasted on highly inflated insurance premiums beggars belief.ETA
No Names.
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th June 23:40
Don't they ask for a valuation beforehand? Or are these items on a contents policy that didn't need listing?
I just insured mine and they are very cautious of everything. Wouldn't accept a valuation from the AD who sold them to me because he had to have seen them and signed the valuation by hand. The dealer is miles away from me, so it's not like I could just pop them over for him to look at and then sign.
All they want is a new replacement value. You can find that from any AD online, but they need to verify the watches are real in the first place.
I had offered copies of invoices, pictures with the other watches that had been valued properly by an AD and pictures of the serials and with a verified date etc to show I still had them, and the underwiter still wasn't happy.
I can't imagine the hoops I'd need to jump through if a valuation wasn't provided from the outset.
I just insured mine and they are very cautious of everything. Wouldn't accept a valuation from the AD who sold them to me because he had to have seen them and signed the valuation by hand. The dealer is miles away from me, so it's not like I could just pop them over for him to look at and then sign.
All they want is a new replacement value. You can find that from any AD online, but they need to verify the watches are real in the first place.
I had offered copies of invoices, pictures with the other watches that had been valued properly by an AD and pictures of the serials and with a verified date etc to show I still had them, and the underwiter still wasn't happy.
I can't imagine the hoops I'd need to jump through if a valuation wasn't provided from the outset.
I forgot to mention, I had within six months of the theft of the gold Rolex. unfortunately dropped the Rolex in the changing rooms of a gym, cracked the glass, so had the watch fixed by a local rolex expert who also gave me a handwritten valuation certificate with the usual identification details and receipt etc. The Insurance company took that paperwork too, checked with the watch repairer : and still dismissed the claim. Hey Ho. That was the .
ETA
Sorry but no names on the forums
.ETA
Sorry but no names on the forums
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th June 16:15
Redfacerolex,
You must have googled this to have stumbled on the thread and resurrected it after two years (especially with a two post count!)
Go to the ombudsman. AND begin small claims proceedings against them.
If what you have said is true then you have every right to expect that you will sell satisfaction from this.
Good luck.
You must have googled this to have stumbled on the thread and resurrected it after two years (especially with a two post count!)
Go to the ombudsman. AND begin small claims proceedings against them.
If what you have said is true then you have every right to expect that you will sell satisfaction from this.
Good luck.
My counterpoint to their argument (aside from the obvious) would be that if they required proof of the watch existing, why did they not do their due diligence PRIOR to issuing the policy?
Lack of due diligence in order to satisfy their half of the deal is not your fault and you should not be penalised for it.
If they do believe that the watch was never in existence, they should not have insured against it and therefore should not have taken your money. It is, in fact, the insurer who has been fraudulent.
Lack of due diligence in order to satisfy their half of the deal is not your fault and you should not be penalised for it.
If they do believe that the watch was never in existence, they should not have insured against it and therefore should not have taken your money. It is, in fact, the insurer who has been fraudulent.
utgjon said:
My counterpoint to their argument (aside from the obvious) would be that if they required proof of the watch existing, why did they not do their due diligence PRIOR to issuing the policy?
Lack of due diligence in order to satisfy their half of the deal is not your fault and you should not be penalised for it.
If they do believe that the watch was never in existence, they should not have insured against it and therefore should not have taken your money. It is, in fact, the insurer who has been fraudulent.
I can understand why you'd say that, but it's not terribly practical to gather evidence of all high value items in each of the 25m+ households before issuing a policy is it? You know what property you have to insure, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for the insurer to ask for some evidence if you claim it has been lost/stolen/damaged. I think perhaps you don't have enough evidence to accuse the insurer of fraud in this case?Lack of due diligence in order to satisfy their half of the deal is not your fault and you should not be penalised for it.
If they do believe that the watch was never in existence, they should not have insured against it and therefore should not have taken your money. It is, in fact, the insurer who has been fraudulent.
It makes sense to photograph all specified items in the home, and to keep these somewhere safe (eg: in the Cloud) in case of need.
None of this changes redfacerolex's issue of course. If the watch was specified at application and there's evidence of its existence, it would seem that the company's complaints procedure, followed by the Financial Swrvices Ombudsman is the correct path to follow.
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