Opinion on Bremont Watches

Opinion on Bremont Watches

Author
Discussion

polar_ben

1,413 posts

258 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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El stovey said:
Rolex watches have been chosen by divers and explorers and other professionals for decades due to their quality and reputation.
How do you know this? Through their marketing and PR? Rolex have paid interesting pioneers/explorer types to use and endorse their watches (since 1927 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_Gleitze ) but I sincerely doubt you'll find many professionals in my field that have chosen to buy one.

UnclePat

508 posts

86 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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polar_ben said:
El stovey said:
Rolex watches have been chosen by divers and explorers and other professionals for decades due to their quality and reputation.
How do you know this? Through their marketing and PR? Rolex have paid interesting pioneers/explorer types to use and endorse their watches (since 1927 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_Gleitze ) but I sincerely doubt you'll find many professionals in my field that have chosen to buy one.
I defer absolutely to your knowledge of Polar expeditions and the gear that achievement demands, but you're a little wide of the mark otherwise.

You're correct to state Rolex are supreme at marketing, and never miss an opportunity to associate their brand with notable feats - the Rolex Oysters worn by Gleitze, and also by Edmund Hilary on his Everest summit (or a 'Smiths' watch, who knows?), were both cannily given as part of a sponsorship, and Rolex have certainly milked their association since, just like Bremont are being accused of.

However, it's wrong to say that has always been the case (although it is admittedly sometimes hard to tell whether the chicken or egg came first in such scenarios), and the brand has a legitimate - unprompted & unpaid - association with many feats of human endeavour, doing hard things in hard places, Polar or otherwise.

Didn't Ranulph Fiennes swear by his Rolex, (before jumping ship to Kobold)?

In aviation terms, when Chuck Yeager broke the speed of sound, it was a Rolex on his wrist, and it was a Rolex supplied to an RAF POW at the Stalag Luft break-out (inspiration for 'The Great Escape'), as the brand was popular with RAF pilots (and Rolex, plus other brands, offered to the replace the confiscated watches of Allied POWs & defer their payment until release after WW2). Similarly, the GMT Master was developed upon request for Pan-Am pilots as a multiple time-zone display, and partly explains why it was such a frequent voluntary wear for NASA Astronauts during missions as a personal timepiece (in addition to the official issue Omega).

In terms of the Submariner, it was an official issue of the Royal Navy, and also the record-setting French COMEX professional dive company (it was at their specific request & through their partnership that led Rolex to develop the Helium Escape Valve, that evolved into the Sea Dweller, assisting saturation divers).

So yes, Rolex have undoubtedly been opportunistic in the same way as Bremont have, but there's also a legitimately deep & lengthy unprompted history of their watches being used as tools.

For example, turning to the Bremont you wore on your expedition, it's undoubtedly a fine watch, but many of the features - Helium Escape Valve, 360' winding Rotor, wristwatch Chronometer status, rotating bezel, waterproof diving case, fourth GMT hand, digital date display, screw down crown etc. - were all first invented, pioneered or perfected by Rolex many years ago.

That's a legitimate, no bullsh*t history that's pretty hard to argue with.

bobbybee

872 posts

153 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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UnclePat said:
Not quite.

The Valjoux movement in the Rolex tested was a manual-wind movement, rotor winding was not a consideration therefore. Even if it had been an automatic with rotor fitted, that still wouldn’t have been a problem - automatic wind watches rely on inertia, not gravity, to wind the mainspring.

The Rolex Daytona was disqualified because it stopped running on two occasions - during the relative humidity test and during the high pressure test when the sweep second hand warped and pressed against the other hands.m

The Speedmaster lost & gained time, but still kept ticking.
Ahh, thanks for the info, re: Orlex manual wind, learn something new every day.
I know about inertia on the rotor, and so did NASA, one would assume, but they were of the mind that (at that time) it was still a theory and didn't want to chance it. Or so I've read, it was a long time ago, so I might have filled in some blanks incorrectly wink

brianashley

500 posts

84 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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UnclePat said:
I defer absolutely to your knowledge of Polar expeditions and the gear that achievement demands, but you're a little wide of the mark otherwise.

You're correct to state Rolex are supreme at marketing, and never miss an opportunity to associate their brand with notable feats - the Rolex Oysters worn by Gleitze, and also by Edmund Hilary on his Everest summit (or a 'Smiths' watch, who knows?), were both cannily given as part of a sponsorship, and Rolex have certainly milked their association since, just like Bremont are being accused of.

However, it's wrong to say that has always been the case (although it is admittedly sometimes hard to tell whether the chicken or egg came first in such scenarios), and the brand has a legitimate - unprompted & unpaid - association with many feats of human endeavour, doing hard things in hard places, Polar or otherwise.

Didn't Ranulph Fiennes swear by his Rolex, (before jumping ship to Kobold)?

In aviation terms, when Chuck Yeager broke the speed of sound, it was a Rolex on his wrist, and it was a Rolex supplied to an RAF POW at the Stalag Luft break-out (inspiration for 'The Great Escape'), as the brand was popular with RAF pilots (and Rolex, plus other brands, offered to the replace the confiscated watches of Allied POWs & defer their payment until release after WW2). Similarly, the GMT Master was developed upon request for Pan-Am pilots as a multiple time-zone display, and partly explains why it was such a frequent voluntary wear for NASA Astronauts during missions as a personal timepiece (in addition to the official issue Omega).

In terms of the Submariner, it was an official issue of the Royal Navy, and also the record-setting French COMEX professional dive company (it was at their specific request & through their partnership that led Rolex to develop the Helium Escape Valve, that evolved into the Sea Dweller, assisting saturation divers).

So yes, Rolex have undoubtedly been opportunistic in the same way as Bremont have, but there's also a legitimately deep & lengthy unprompted history of their watches being used as tools.

For example, turning to the Bremont you wore on your expedition, it's undoubtedly a fine watch, but many of the features - Helium Escape Valve, 360' winding Rotor, wristwatch Chronometer status, rotating bezel, waterproof diving case, fourth GMT hand, digital date display, screw down crown etc. - were all first invented, pioneered or perfected by Rolex many years ago.

That's a legitimate, no bullsh*t history that's pretty hard to argue with.
You hardly ever see a Pro diver wearing a Rolex . Its all Citizen, Casio and Seiko stuff

UnclePat

508 posts

86 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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brianashley said:
You hardly ever see a Pro diver wearing a Rolex . Its all Citizen, Casio and Seiko stuff
Yes, that's absolutely true.

However, it's a bit unrelated to the point I was making, and also I think it's more a reflection of the fact that:

a) Dive computers have taken over from mechanical watches as bottom timers for Pro Divers, with a watch now fulfilling a back-up/failsafe role at most, and;

b) Most Pro Divers don't particularly want to bang around a £5k+ watch, when a £100 Seiko/Casio will do the job, and no-one really cares if it gets damaged or lost.

That's part of a greater trend, with many bona fide dive tool watches of the past - Omega, Blancpain, Rolex etc. - having now transitioned more into the 'luxury' sphere (and lets face it - jewellery).

40-50 years ago, a mechanical watch wasn't arm candy for impressing the golf club boys or featuring on 'TOWIE' wrists - they were bought as unsentimental tools, and priced more affordably to reflect the working necessities they were. With the advent of quartz & computer technologies, there were suddenly cheaper (and sometimes, better) alternatives, so brands such as Rolex only survived because they transformed into luxury items, fulfilling a very different need.

However, because we're all susceptible to marketing, all brands hark back to tales of derring-do (real or manufactured) so we can all be a budding Walter Mitty safely at our desks. It's no different to the Sunday Football park cloggers wearing £200 Cristiano Ronaldo football boots, or sporting a £900 Canada Goose jacket on your daily bus commute.

There are still some times when a mechanical watch is the best option - hence why Ben used one for his superb achievement of a Polar Expedition, and the Omega Speedmaster remains EVA space qualified and still Cosmonaut used to this very day.

However, none of that detracts from the point I (and others) have made - that Rolex have a noteworthy & genuine history of achievement, and without the past technical innovations by Rolex (and others), we might not have been able to take for granted the fact that a £100 Seiko today can easily do what a Rolex or Blancpain could in 1953.

It's worth stating though that one of the things that sets Rolex (or a METAS Master Chronometer Omega Plant Ocean etc.) apart, is that whilst hardly anyone really uses them for anything like their full potential (I mean, Helium Release Valves on consumer watches? When a similar number of people have walked on the moon as have descended below 240m using scuba gear!?), they are still extremely capable dive watches, as well as being man-jewellery.

There's actual full technical capability there behind the glossy magazine ads, if you need it - they are superior in their class in that regard.

The Bremont is also an excellent watch, mind, that's not in doubt.

Lorne

543 posts

101 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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bobbybee said:
El stovey said:
The speedmaster was selected by NASA after doing lots of tests. NASA basically bought a load of watches from a local jewellers and found out which performed the best.

Rolex watches have been chosen by divers and explorers and other professionals for decades due to their quality and reputation.

Seems quite different to what happened with bremont to me but each to their own.
That's just an urban legend, no government agency just pops to the shops to (at that time) buy mission critical equipment, the supplying companies would have entered into a tender / testing program. BTW the Rolex chronograph that was also tested out performed the Omega on nearly all the tests carried out, but as NASA at the time where unsure of the effects of zero G on an automatic watch, so erred on the side of caution and went with the hand wound Omega
I don't think it is a urban legend. I did some extensive research on this once (a bored afternoon googling) and it appears NASA wanted to test a range of watches without telling the manufacturers so one of the engineers went to the local Houston jewelers and bought a selection. The Speedy survived the tests and had the added advantage that the hesaltite glass (plastic) wouldn't splinter into a million shards when hit with a hammer, which is quite a good thing if floating around in zero g. What's equally interesting is that a watch that hit the stores in 1957 is still worn in space 60 years later. Not only worn, but worn outside a freekin spacesuit!

Bremont make nice looking watches and they are building a good reputation, although admittedly are very good at projecting that reputation to its maximum. One of my watches was also worn by a polar explorer, during a winter walk to the pole (he's a bit of a nutter) outside his freekin thermals. He called me one day to say it had stopped and I advised him to wear the damn thing under his glove as -50C not only made the oil a thick as treacle but was outside the lower temperature limit at which the 316H screw bolts become brittle so he was likely to find it had fallen off into the snow one day. Incidentally, in accordance with my own brilliant marketing strategy, he paid for his watch.

Edit: said polar nutter isn't polar_ben, who I'm sure is perfectly sane and reasonable.


Edited by Lorne on Saturday 22 April 13:34

Likes Fast Cars

2,769 posts

164 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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Lorne said:
I don't think it is a urban legend. I did some extensive research on this once (a bored afternoon googling) and it appears NASA wanted to test a range of watches without telling the manufacturers so one of the engineers went to the local Houston jewelers and bought a selection. The Speedy survived the tests and had the added advantage that the hesaltite glass (plastic) wouldn't splinter into a million shards when hit with a hammer, which is quite a good thing if floating around in zero g. What's equally interesting is that a watch that hit the stores in 1957 is still worn in space 60 years later. Not only worn, but worn outside a freekin spacesuit!

Bremont make nice looking watches and they are building a good reputation, although admittedly are very good at projecting that reputation to its maximum. One of my watches was also worn by a polar explorer, during a winter walk to the pole (he's a bit of a nutter) outside his freekin thermals. He called me one day to say it had stopped and I advised him to wear the damn thing under his glove as -50C not only made the oil a thick as treacle but was outside the lower temperature limit at which the 316H screw bolts become brittle so he was likely to find it had fallen off into the snow one day. Incidentally, in accordance with my own brilliant marketing strategy, he paid for his watch.

Edit: said polar nutter isn't polar_ben, who I'm sure is perfectly sane and reasonable.


Edited by Lorne on Saturday 22 April 13:34
Well done Lorne on getting him to pay.

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
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Still really enjoying my MB2, now with a barrel colour change


Prestjoh

39 posts

146 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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I have a few, love my MB.

don logan

3,511 posts

221 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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Prestjoh said:
I have a few, love my MB.
You are Bremont Top Trumps!


FrankAbagnale

1,700 posts

111 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Bremont have partnered with Henley Regatta and are going to be making a watch to mark the relationship.

"Official Timekeeper Bremont Watch Company, the award-winning company producing beautifully engineered timepieces at their headquarters in Henley-on-Thames, will provide handmade mechanical stopwatches to time all races at the Regatta. This is in keeping with the traditions of the Regatta, in which hand timing has been used since its inaugural year. The British watchmaker will also develop a range of Official Henley Royal Regatta timepieces throughout the term of the partnership."

Zoon

6,654 posts

120 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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I know the people who do the coatings for them.
http://www.ionbond.com/en/

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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FrankAbagnale said:
Bremont have partnered with Henley Regatta and are going to be making a watch to mark the relationship.

"Official Timekeeper Bremont Watch Company, the award-winning company producing beautifully engineered timepieces at their headquarters in Henley-on-Thames, will provide handmade mechanical stopwatches to time all races at the Regatta. This is in keeping with the traditions of the Regatta, in which hand timing has been used since its inaugural year. The British watchmaker will also develop a range of Official Henley Royal Regatta timepieces throughout the term of the partnership."
More dodgy tie ins and buying into other organisations rich history and hoping some of the prestige will rub off on them.

I can see it now. The Henley watch being given (sold cheaply) to the oarsmen, even famous ex rowers being seen with them. Evidence no doubt that professionals are (suddenly) using bremont watches.

What next? The house of Windsor bremont? Perhaps with a coat of arms on the award winning company's face, a beautifully engineered time piece, presented to prince Andrew. In keeping with traditions of the royal family. The company could then develop a range of official House of Windsor timepieces hehe

After that they could try tie ins with other prestigious but completely unrelated organisations like military regiments, squadrons, Jaguar, the F-15, DH-88, U2, Churchill shotguns, Martin baker ejection seats, Bletchley Park, Supermarine, Boeing, HMS Victory, The Americas Cup etc etc

Oh they've done all them?

I was only joking about the Windsor Bremont but I've just looked on their website, they've actually managed to link themselves to the royal family already (and the spitfire and Douglas Bader no less) by presenting "an incredibly special Bremont timepiece which is only eligible to those who have soloed a spitfire." hehe to an amazing amputee who has flown a spitfire.



They must have run out of British institutions to produce watches with, what's next? Oxford university? Wimbledon? Pimms? Turner? The battle of Waterloo?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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swerni said:
:yawn:

Did Giles beat you up a school or something ?
Oh is he your chum? Have you bought a watch from Giles? Which logo did you get on It?

Perhaps there's an actual Giles watch? Celebrating bremonts (and your) link to Giles and (possibly) making his own watch movements. Limited edition and only available to people who have actually flown with Giles. Or met him in a flying jacket. In Henley.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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swerni said:
El stovey said:
swerni said:
:yawn:

Did Giles beat you up a school or something ?
Oh is he your chum? Have you bought a watch from Giles? Which logo did you get on It?

Perhaps there's an actual Giles watch? Celebrating bremonts (and your) link to Giles and (possibly) making his own watch movements. Limited edition and only available to people who have actually flown with Giles. Or met him in a flying jacket. In Henley.
No, but I do know Nick though.
You seem ever so angry by the success of a British company, almost obsessed by it.
To be honest, I don't care who makes the movement in my MB2 or my Daytona for that matter

I've got a flying jacket as well but Henley isn't my part of the world smile
What does having a Daytona have to do with anything? Is it supposed to add something to your post?

You know Nick AND have a Daytona!

Sorry for posting my opinions on the brand when that's what the thread is about. I'll leave it to you to tell everyone you know Nick and have a Daytona in peace. Even though it's got nothing to do with the thread.

He has a Daytona everyone!

Seriously watch forums are full of the same kind of comments about bremont's marketing and branding and tie ins as I and others have posted. It can't be a surprise that some people don't like it.

As I said before some beautiful watches let down by dodgy marketing and fake tie ins and silly new prices.

andyman_2006

Original Poster:

718 posts

189 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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I suppose as the op I should add some (final comments) for me.

It was actually the tie in with (as some say) 'dodgy marketing' that had caught my attention regarding the jaguar models and I was less bothered about Bremont heritage but wanted to know more about how they compared to major better known brands and I suppose I was less bothered about where the movements came from, but unsure if paying list price was a given or if 20% discount was possible.

It's interesting to hear so many comments, seems a little bit of a shame that so much is negative and most if it around marketing and less on the quality.

The watches seem (to me) well made, and whilst I don't agree with some prices of some higher end models (a view I have on some rolex as well for that matter) these watches remain popular and are a growing brand in a large watch market, they are a welcome alternative to the 'usual' brands, and I don't think these tie in deals or marketing campaigns are a bad thing, and are doing their brand no harm, it's what caught my eye to start with so it clearly works! every brand has some form of tie in or duff marketing rubbish and sell their products via sport, heritage, or something why should bremont be any different.

I think we should accept they are doing well, are pretty well made (at certain price points) and some models might seem overpriced vs some more major brands, but it's each to their own.

I however have decided not to buy one and to save the funds I was going to buy a jaguar mk3 one with to put towards a rolex Gmt blue/black, although short supply of these (at list price) and (in my opinion) rolex playing games with supply and the current price rises makes me reluctant to purchase but I like the watch more than anything else right now (I know this is another topic!)
So now on the wait list for what could be a good 12 months until I get my hands on it :-(

All that said I'd still consider buying a jaguar mk3 bremont (used) or new at good discount (if they are not discontinued by time I save up!) and will keep an eye on used prices in the meantime, the jaguar mk1/2 don't seem to me worth the extra over the mk3 model but maybe I value the jaguar theme and looks of the watch more than the better movements of the higher end models!

Thanks for all feedback and comments both positive and negative.


jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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S'funny, I tried on a Wright Flyer today and it was a lovely piece. To have a piece of the original plane in the movement is a nice touch. But, then I read the story of the movement and it put me off a bit. Does anyone think that would be a good future investment?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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swerni said:
Yes I own Daytona, if that's going to impress you or anyone, you should have worked harder at school.

Be a good boy and try growing up a little.
Wow. rofl

Nobody's impressed by you having a Daytona. Just in case you though you ought to randomly mention it on some other thread.

You've waded in to stop criticism of bremont, if you don't like it, I suggest you don't read the thread.

The poster above you has pointed out that he liked a watch, and then discovered bremont had told porkies about the movement, if you don't think that's worth pointing out to people then that's up to you. Please don't try and stop anyone else from discussing it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 8th May 21:32

Madness60

571 posts

183 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Stovey, you are coming across like a bit of tool I'm afraid.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Madness60 said:
Stovey, you are coming across like a bit of tool I'm afraid.
Fair enough.

I'll leave you to it. As I said I think the watches look great it's just all the marketing and fake history stuff that I don't like but each to their own etc. beer