Zenith and IWC depreciation
Discussion
I posted a while back about entry level watches, if there is such a thing.
Never bought, as I spent my money on other toys.
Started looking again, price range around 2k, and I really like some IWC and Zenith models.
Now I know the main criteria is that I buy a piece that I love, but another factor is that I won't lose money if I were to sell or upgrade in a year or so.
I've heard thoughts that both IWC and Zenith see good brands, making quality pieces, and won't lose value as they are starting to become collectable.
As I say, I'm not looking to make a profit, but I would like a degree of certainty that I'll not lose. Ill be buying used rather than new.
Any thoughts? Or am I just pissing in the wind, and just do a "pay your money, take your pick" deal?
Never bought, as I spent my money on other toys.
Started looking again, price range around 2k, and I really like some IWC and Zenith models.
Now I know the main criteria is that I buy a piece that I love, but another factor is that I won't lose money if I were to sell or upgrade in a year or so.
I've heard thoughts that both IWC and Zenith see good brands, making quality pieces, and won't lose value as they are starting to become collectable.
As I say, I'm not looking to make a profit, but I would like a degree of certainty that I'll not lose. Ill be buying used rather than new.
Any thoughts? Or am I just pissing in the wind, and just do a "pay your money, take your pick" deal?
You'll probably lose some money on whatever you buy, but as long as you avoid breaking it, losing it in a poker game, dropping it down the back of the sofa, or having it stolen you should get something back if you decide to sell it. You will definitely get more back from your £2000 investment that you would had you chosen to invest it in say a set of performance tyres, a top class hooker, or a giant gold-leaf covered cream-cake.
dimots said:
You will definitely get more back from your £2000 investment that you would had you chosen to invest it in say a set of performance tyres, a top class hooker, or a giant gold-leaf covered cream-cake.
... and wasted the rest. 
I'd do an ebay search for the model you're interested in to get an idea of how far it will fall. Even ropey unfashionable El Primero's sell for over a grand, they're always going to have value so long as people are still buying watches.
I suppose watches are very much like cars; go for a Patek and it'll hold and probably increase the moment you're out of the showroom but most things will lose quite a bit from that moment. 2 ways to avoid depreciation are vintage/SH that already has the depreciation taken out of it or for new go for an anomaly like Rolex which seems to hold quite well (I presume that's still the case?) even from new.
If I were buying Zenith it would be vintage (although to be honest that boat has sailed with prices double what they were a while ago for watches like the A277 or Axxx series, not Nataf era...); if I were looking at IWC it'd be slightly more recent - I'd look at something like the titanium 3536 Aquatimer, the GST split minute or the Deep One for example.
Or buy an iconic new watch and wait for the bounce.
If I were buying Zenith it would be vintage (although to be honest that boat has sailed with prices double what they were a while ago for watches like the A277 or Axxx series, not Nataf era...); if I were looking at IWC it'd be slightly more recent - I'd look at something like the titanium 3536 Aquatimer, the GST split minute or the Deep One for example.
Or buy an iconic new watch and wait for the bounce.
Zenith can be fantastic value if bought used, especially the complicated watches from the 2000's. Some stunning movements and complications for relatively little money (in swiss watch terms).
Even buying used- you should aim for a good discount (over 10%) on whatever the list price is, they are very difficult watches to sell, very underrated and underappreciated.
Even buying used- you should aim for a good discount (over 10%) on whatever the list price is, they are very difficult watches to sell, very underrated and underappreciated.
T40ORA said:
Are the movements of both brands equally good?
Depends on which watches you are comparing. You may find a better movement for less outlay in a zenith but you may not like the way the watch looks. As alluded to above a c.2000 Zenith like the EP academy moonphase, or even the Dunhill el primero, offers rarity and quality movements but they both look like rejected Tag designs. Their time will come though...no doubt.You will be paying a lot more cash for a decent IWC than either of the above but you won't get anything as interesting inside.
Can't really make a sweeping statement about brand mechanical quality though...because each watch is different and they change over the years.
fluffnik said:
T40ORA said:
Are the movements of both brands equally good?
Rolex have used Zenith movements, Zenith haven't bothered with Rolex movements...Anyway, movements schmoovements. It's all marketing / branding boolocks.
glazbagun said:
As a watchmaker I'd disagree, there some movements I'd happily buy and some I'd rather have a quartz than suffer.
Some movements are certainly better than others, but it's still only a part if the decision making proccess, or else we'd all be wearing the same thing.
And I wouldn’t disagree with some movements being better than others (I served my time ‘on the bench’) but the truth is that we’re not talking high performance car engines here; they all basically go tick-tock, or tick-tick through their escapement function (quality complications excepted - but let’s be honest, they’re also a marketing device - how many Daytona owners, which housed the original El Primero movement, actually press their pushers after week two of ownership??) Some movements are certainly better than others, but it's still only a part if the decision making proccess, or else we'd all be wearing the same thing.
Today’s Daytona movement is far, far, ahead of Zenith’s original, in every respect, and is priced to support the branding clearly visible in the likes of F1, Wimbledon, etc.
Yes there are differences in quality, of course, but to the layman it’s about the kudos of a brand, not about the actual quality of the movement. N’es pas?
Depends, I guess- some old manual wind Omegas from the 50's are very well made, not too expensive (and not at all waterproof) but can still be made to keep excellent time due to their quality and great design. They do, however look like something your grandad may have worn!
From a fine-finishing POV, you can buy pocket watches from the early 20/late 19th century that are up there with the best of today for much less money. They aren't something you can plan your day around though.
I actually think Rolex oysters with the 3135 cal are about as solid a mass produced thing you can buy, but they are also pretty dull to look at!
From a fine-finishing POV, you can buy pocket watches from the early 20/late 19th century that are up there with the best of today for much less money. They aren't something you can plan your day around though.
I actually think Rolex oysters with the 3135 cal are about as solid a mass produced thing you can buy, but they are also pretty dull to look at!
T40ORA said:
I used to drive a Nissan Sunny 2.0l Gti. It looked like a hearse, was assumed to be an old buggers wheels, but knocked s
t out of everything on the road, other than a supercar.
So what is an equivalent mechanical watch?
One of the upmarket Seikos for me. Not a GS but a SARx model, select one to suit. Nobody but you knows what they are, they look like a £100 quartz, the quality is ace and all the bits are made in house in Japan. They often go 20 yes without needing service. Look closely and the build quality drips off them.t out of everything on the road, other than a supercar.So what is an equivalent mechanical watch?
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