Rolex 'Kermit' Submariner & 'Pepsi' GMT Master Values
Discussion
Ari said:
Well, you may be right, perhaps this time it is completely different for some reason.
However unlike the classic car market where cars consume considerable amounts of cash for upkeep and storage, I just can't see people panicking and selling their Rolexes if the market falters. More likely to shrug and either carry on wearing it, or leave it in a drawer and hope things pick up at some stage if they're not that bothered about it and really did buy it purely as an investment.
But who knows, time will tell.
I tend to agree.However unlike the classic car market where cars consume considerable amounts of cash for upkeep and storage, I just can't see people panicking and selling their Rolexes if the market falters. More likely to shrug and either carry on wearing it, or leave it in a drawer and hope things pick up at some stage if they're not that bothered about it and really did buy it purely as an investment.
But who knows, time will tell.
I’m after a Pepsi with box and papers to wear and enjoy but I’m struggling to find one at a price.
My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
rog007 said:
I’m after a Pepsi with box and papers to wear and enjoy but I’m struggling to find one at a price.
My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
Do you mean a fair price? Or cheap?My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
I had a spare Pepsi about eighteen months ago - a really good one, fresh from Rolex service, - and when I mentioned as much I had quite a lot of contact from PHers. All of it died off as soon as I mentioned the price. So I traded it in for pretty much the price I wanted and today you couldn't buy a scruffy one, in need of a service, for the same money.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
What’s a fair price?
Difficult to put an exact price on it; it’s more of how one reacts when one sees a great watch with nice provenance at a price one thinks is fair. I guess we all know it when we see/feel it. Just haven’t been feeling it myself with the few that I’ve seen for sale.The search continues!
rog007 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
What’s a fair price?
Difficult to put an exact price on it; it’s more of how one reacts when one sees a great watch with nice provenance at a price one thinks is fair. I guess we all know it when we see/feel it. Just haven’t been feeling it myself with the few that I’ve seen for sale.The search continues!
They’re all the same except tiny visual differences.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
They’re all the same except tiny visual differences.
Some have boxes and original papers and some don’t. Some have been serviced recently and some haven’t. Some remain under Rolex warranty and some don’t. Some have had parts changed and others haven’t etc, etc. So it’s just having that good provenance as I said and a feeling that all looks and feels right, including the price. And let’s face it, much of the fun is the chase!
I bought my 16610LV in late 2003 just after release. As much as I like it I always found that I preferred my Seadweller 16600.
It's sat unworn in the safe since then. I contacted a dealer a couple of weeks ago who had advertised a similar watch (albeit lightly used) and sold it in less than a day for £17.5k. Given mine was unworn and still had all the original stickers on it could be nearer £20k.
Not bad considering it cost me £2950 but I know if I sell it I'll regret it. There was no great foresight in me buying the watch, it was just something I liked and because it is a very early F serial it's rocketed in value.
My 16600 I paid £2300 in 2001..probably now worth £4.5k and my 2014 grey market deepsea probably £6.5-7k.
The best way of looking at it is you'll never really lose money on a SS Rolex but buying as an investment - I wouldn't recommend
It's sat unworn in the safe since then. I contacted a dealer a couple of weeks ago who had advertised a similar watch (albeit lightly used) and sold it in less than a day for £17.5k. Given mine was unworn and still had all the original stickers on it could be nearer £20k.
Not bad considering it cost me £2950 but I know if I sell it I'll regret it. There was no great foresight in me buying the watch, it was just something I liked and because it is a very early F serial it's rocketed in value.
My 16600 I paid £2300 in 2001..probably now worth £4.5k and my 2014 grey market deepsea probably £6.5-7k.
The best way of looking at it is you'll never really lose money on a SS Rolex but buying as an investment - I wouldn't recommend
slk 32 said:
It's sat unworn in the safe since then. I contacted a dealer a couple of weeks ago who had advertised a similar watch (albeit lightly used) and sold it in less than a day for £17.5k. Given mine was unworn and still had all the original stickers on it could be nearer £20k.
He's either lying or the buyer was an idiot. No way is a Kermit trading for those levels.Ari said:
Got to agree with this. I’m no expert, but £20k for a green sub..?
Why would he be lying? He's got nothing to prove.The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
slk 32 said:
Why would he be lying? He's got nothing to prove.
The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
I din't say he was lying, it's entirely possible that something got lost in translation along the way. And anyway, as ever, what someone says it's worth, and what they'll stick their hand in their pocket and pay, are often vastly different. The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
Yes, there are people to whom '£20K is loose change' (unfortunately not me either), but they generally didn't get there by paying over the odds for anything.
And Paul Newman's Daytona wasn't 'just a Daytona', it was Paul Newman's Daytona. Try getting one similar but not owned by Paul Newman and putting it up for sale for $17m. Don't hold your breath whilst you're waiting for a buyer though...
rog007 said:
I’m after a Pepsi with box and papers to wear and enjoy but I’m struggling to find one at a price.
My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
Just go on Chrono24 - dozens for sale take your pick from around £5,500 (no B&P plus shipping and taxes from USA to around £ (no B&P) to 6,500 for a UK watch. There's a 2004 Coke bezel insert model watch from the USA for £6,000 with box and papers but you'll have to add on import duty. A Pepsi bezel insert will be £50 from Rolex, St James while you wait.My reaction to current GMT asking prices is interesting though, as I’m wearing a Flat Four Kermit Submariner as a daily that I purchased pre-owned only 3 years ago for what seems like 50% of current asking prices!
I guess I want to have my cake and eat it!
Anyway; if anyone can signpost to a nice GMT Pepsi with box and papers for what is considered a fair price, I’d be grateful.
Thankyou!
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/rolex/gmt-master-ii-167...
Ari said:
slk 32 said:
Why would he be lying? He's got nothing to prove.
The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
I din't say he was lying, it's entirely possible that something got lost in translation along the way. And anyway, as ever, what someone says it's worth, and what they'll stick their hand in their pocket and pay, are often vastly different. The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
Yes, there are people to whom '£20K is loose change' (unfortunately not me either), but they generally didn't get there by paying over the odds for anything.
And Paul Newman's Daytona wasn't 'just a Daytona', it was Paul Newman's Daytona. Try getting one similar but not owned by Paul Newman and putting it up for sale for $17m. Don't hold your breath whilst you're waiting for a buyer though...
There is only one Paul Newman daytona hence why someone was willing to pay £17.5m USD
It's the same with the early 16610LVs..those 2003 Y and F serials were made for approx 4 months.
Watchclub have just posted a NOS 2003 F serial for £19,950. Not the dealer I spoke to but will be interesting to see how long it hangs around for
https://www.watchclub.com/rolex/submariner-date/ne...
They've also got a later NOS 2008 model but that's been on for a couple of weeks at just under £15k. Given it's a lot more common it's not going to appeal so much to the collector nerds
Trev450 said:
audidoody said:
I bought my 2002 GMT II Coke bezel from WF in 2003 for £1,900 (box and papers).
Same year, same watch with box and papers is now £7,450 from WF.
Just dumb luck, I bought it 'cos I liked it. Never thought the value would rise at all!
Virtually the same situation myself. Same year, same watch with box and papers is now £7,450 from WF.
Just dumb luck, I bought it 'cos I liked it. Never thought the value would rise at all!
Purchased a 2 year old GMT 11 Pepsi in 2005 for £2300 for the exact same reason.
slk 32 said:
Ari said:
slk 32 said:
Why would he be lying? He's got nothing to prove.
The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
I din't say he was lying, it's entirely possible that something got lost in translation along the way. And anyway, as ever, what someone says it's worth, and what they'll stick their hand in their pocket and pay, are often vastly different. The simple fact is that the early Y & F serials (upto F54) from 2003 (the true anniversary year) are the most desirable for collectors . Deliveries only started in late September and mine is dated December.Subtle differences (B1 'Fat four' bezel to name but one) are the things that collectors look for.
How many do you think were delivered in this 4 month period? How many of those remain unworn?. I would imagine only a handful.
Not only that but they are happy to pay a premium. There are people out there to whom £20k is loose change (unfortunately not me).
Would I spend £20k on one? No. But that's because there are other watches I would rather spend the money on..at the end of the day it's ultimately just a SS Submariner.
That said Paul Newman's Daytona which sold at auction for £17m USD was just a Daytona
Yes, there are people to whom '£20K is loose change' (unfortunately not me either), but they generally didn't get there by paying over the odds for anything.
And Paul Newman's Daytona wasn't 'just a Daytona', it was Paul Newman's Daytona. Try getting one similar but not owned by Paul Newman and putting it up for sale for $17m. Don't hold your breath whilst you're waiting for a buyer though...
There is only one Paul Newman daytona hence why someone was willing to pay £17.5m USD
It's the same with the early 16610LVs..those 2003 Y and F serials were made for approx 4 months.
Watchclub have just posted a NOS 2003 F serial for £19,950. Not the dealer I spoke to but will be interesting to see how long it hangs around for
https://www.watchclub.com/rolex/submariner-date/ne...
They've also got a later NOS 2008 model but that's been on for a couple of weeks at just under £15k. Given it's a lot more common it's not going to appeal so much to the collector nerds
andy tims said:
My old one, that I clearly should not have sold
I tried on the Kermit many times when they were first released. Whilst I liked the look of the watch on its own, I didn’t think much of it on the wrist juxtaposed with clothing. I am not sure why, but lime green just doesn’t seem to be a good colour for a watch - assuming you intend to wear it and not just invest in it!So said:
I tried on the Kermit many times when they were first released. Whilst I liked the look of the watch on its own, I didn’t think much of it on the wrist juxtaposed with clothing. I am not sure why, but lime green just doesn’t seem to be a good colour for a watch - assuming you intend to wear it and not just invest in it!
Been wearing mine most days; but then I am partial to green, hence why I loved the green on the GMT.Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff