Your thoughts on fake watches
Discussion
This thread is quite interesting to me, in fact I started a similar one a while back and it was removed instantly. I thought that was a shame because I just wanted some info, but got shut down quicksmart!
With the greatest respect to watch enthusiasts everywhere, expensive original watches aren't really my thing but there is a particular Omega I quite like the look of. The thing is I don't really need a watch, I haven't worn one for over 20 years and as much as I like this Omega there is no way I want to spend thousands on one. This is where the idea of a fake comes in, I wondered if it was possible to have a reasonable fake/copy/homage whatever that worked reasonablly well for a hundred quid or so because that would suit me.
I don't want it because I'm trying to be flash, I couldn't give a fig if anyone notices it or not, I don't care if the numerals aren't quite right, I'm not trying to stick it to the man by getting a cheap copy that 'looks like a real one' or any of that. I just like the way it looks, its the only watch I've seen which I thought 'yeah I'd wear that' and i wouldn't mind one to wear now and then, does that make me a bad man?!
With the greatest respect to watch enthusiasts everywhere, expensive original watches aren't really my thing but there is a particular Omega I quite like the look of. The thing is I don't really need a watch, I haven't worn one for over 20 years and as much as I like this Omega there is no way I want to spend thousands on one. This is where the idea of a fake comes in, I wondered if it was possible to have a reasonable fake/copy/homage whatever that worked reasonablly well for a hundred quid or so because that would suit me.
I don't want it because I'm trying to be flash, I couldn't give a fig if anyone notices it or not, I don't care if the numerals aren't quite right, I'm not trying to stick it to the man by getting a cheap copy that 'looks like a real one' or any of that. I just like the way it looks, its the only watch I've seen which I thought 'yeah I'd wear that' and i wouldn't mind one to wear now and then, does that make me a bad man?!
It’s always interesting when this subject comes up, which it does quite regularly.
I love watches, I have very many, some reasonably expensive, some cheap and modern, some ebay vintage bargains, some to play with. Do replica watches detract from my enjoyment of my original (if there is a decent copy). No. In fact, I am quiet glad that there are good copies of watches for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it stops watchmakers becoming complacent. They need to innovate in bot design and technology / materials to stay ahead of the replica producers. Without this pressure, we’d be paying for the same old thing year after year.
Secondly, I genuinely believe it drives sales of the real thing UP, not down. The purchaser of a crap knockoff bought on the beach in Thailand was never a customer of the real thing anyway, so doesn’t impact sales. The kind of person who shells out £500 and up on a replica is likely to have done extensive research, read about the watch, and is likely to end up buying 1, 2 or more originals. Read the forums and this happens over and over again. They have 10, 15 replicas, but several (more than the average person by far) originals too. It’s interesting that these forums and the associated dealers are not instantly closed down. It wouldn’t be that hard to do. The occasional half-hearted crackdown, but ultimately back up and running almost immediately. I think the genuine manufacturers secretly nurture this.
Thirdly, replica forums seem to be filled with some of the most knowledgeable ‘watch’ people out there, easily as good as, if not better than on other fora, because many of them have opened the watch up and played with or modded it. Something genuine watch owners just don’t do. I guess I just like that enthusiasm. I respect it.
I love watches, I have very many, some reasonably expensive, some cheap and modern, some ebay vintage bargains, some to play with. Do replica watches detract from my enjoyment of my original (if there is a decent copy). No. In fact, I am quiet glad that there are good copies of watches for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it stops watchmakers becoming complacent. They need to innovate in bot design and technology / materials to stay ahead of the replica producers. Without this pressure, we’d be paying for the same old thing year after year.
Secondly, I genuinely believe it drives sales of the real thing UP, not down. The purchaser of a crap knockoff bought on the beach in Thailand was never a customer of the real thing anyway, so doesn’t impact sales. The kind of person who shells out £500 and up on a replica is likely to have done extensive research, read about the watch, and is likely to end up buying 1, 2 or more originals. Read the forums and this happens over and over again. They have 10, 15 replicas, but several (more than the average person by far) originals too. It’s interesting that these forums and the associated dealers are not instantly closed down. It wouldn’t be that hard to do. The occasional half-hearted crackdown, but ultimately back up and running almost immediately. I think the genuine manufacturers secretly nurture this.
Thirdly, replica forums seem to be filled with some of the most knowledgeable ‘watch’ people out there, easily as good as, if not better than on other fora, because many of them have opened the watch up and played with or modded it. Something genuine watch owners just don’t do. I guess I just like that enthusiasm. I respect it.
i think it's broken logic to come up with stuff like "i don't wear a watch and have no interest in them, but i think spending £000s on a watch is crazy". You need to replace the "but" with "so". It's fairly obvious that you aren't going to spend any amount of money on something you don't want... if it's not for you, then it's not for you. Your complete lack of desire for a thing does not make it worthless.
Spumfry said:
TiggerBits said:
From a personal point of view, the concept of a fake watch doesn't bother me if the buyer is aware it is fake.
And yet on another thread you said "...fake watches are a rip off and morally wrong".Looking forward to tomorrow's troll thread on cheap, fake, homage Parnis watches.
sandman77 said:
I do wonder what topic tiggerbits will choose for tomorrows thread. Let me guess - something about cheep watches that is likely to divide opinion?
If we all just ignore this troll he will eventually get bored and go away. Its getting boring now.
He says he knows a lot about watches. I’m not convinced, but I’d say knows plenty about trolling.If we all just ignore this troll he will eventually get bored and go away. Its getting boring now.
Things like this, passed off as real, get my goat...
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
LDN said:
Things like this, passed off as real, get my goat...
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
Tbh I dislike fakes as well. https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
I do like honest homages /copies.
More in the sense of : we're not X but this is the best a watch with that design gets at this price point.
ZesPak said:
LDN said:
Things like this, passed off as real, get my goat...
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
Tbh I dislike fakes as well. https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/audemars-piguet...
I do like honest homages /copies.
More in the sense of : we're not X but this is the best a watch with that design gets at this price point.
https://gigandet.com/sea-ground/277/gigandet-sea-g...
LDN said:
Interesting. I wouldn't mind a hulk look alike but I have a distinct dislike for cyclops'. 
sandman77 said:
I do wonder what topic tiggerbits will choose for tomorrows thread. Let me guess - something about cheep watches that is likely to divide opinion?
If we all just ignore this troll he will eventually get bored and go away. Its getting boring now.
FOYW. Figure it out for yourself If we all just ignore this troll he will eventually get bored and go away. Its getting boring now.
Dempsey1971 said:
It’s always interesting when this subject comes up, which it does quite regularly.
I love watches, I have very many, some reasonably expensive, some cheap and modern, some ebay vintage bargains, some to play with. Do replica watches detract from my enjoyment of my original (if there is a decent copy). No. In fact, I am quiet glad that there are good copies of watches for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it stops watchmakers becoming complacent. They need to innovate in bot design and technology / materials to stay ahead of the replica producers. Without this pressure, we’d be paying for the same old thing year after year.
Secondly, I genuinely believe it drives sales of the real thing UP, not down. The purchaser of a crap knockoff bought on the beach in Thailand was never a customer of the real thing anyway, so doesn’t impact sales. The kind of person who shells out £500 and up on a replica is likely to have done extensive research, read about the watch, and is likely to end up buying 1, 2 or more originals. Read the forums and this happens over and over again. They have 10, 15 replicas, but several (more than the average person by far) originals too. It’s interesting that these forums and the associated dealers are not instantly closed down. It wouldn’t be that hard to do. The occasional half-hearted crackdown, but ultimately back up and running almost immediately. I think the genuine manufacturers secretly nurture this.
Thirdly, replica forums seem to be filled with some of the most knowledgeable ‘watch’ people out there, easily as good as, if not better than on other fora, because many of them have opened the watch up and played with or modded it. Something genuine watch owners just don’t do. I guess I just like that enthusiasm. I respect it.
Yes, you have to ask yourself, if someone can produce a replica for £500 that is so close to the original that cost £20,000, when nobody but the original manufacturer can tell the difference, why does the original cost 40 times as much ?I love watches, I have very many, some reasonably expensive, some cheap and modern, some ebay vintage bargains, some to play with. Do replica watches detract from my enjoyment of my original (if there is a decent copy). No. In fact, I am quiet glad that there are good copies of watches for a number of reasons.
Firstly, it stops watchmakers becoming complacent. They need to innovate in bot design and technology / materials to stay ahead of the replica producers. Without this pressure, we’d be paying for the same old thing year after year.
Secondly, I genuinely believe it drives sales of the real thing UP, not down. The purchaser of a crap knockoff bought on the beach in Thailand was never a customer of the real thing anyway, so doesn’t impact sales. The kind of person who shells out £500 and up on a replica is likely to have done extensive research, read about the watch, and is likely to end up buying 1, 2 or more originals. Read the forums and this happens over and over again. They have 10, 15 replicas, but several (more than the average person by far) originals too. It’s interesting that these forums and the associated dealers are not instantly closed down. It wouldn’t be that hard to do. The occasional half-hearted crackdown, but ultimately back up and running almost immediately. I think the genuine manufacturers secretly nurture this.
Thirdly, replica forums seem to be filled with some of the most knowledgeable ‘watch’ people out there, easily as good as, if not better than on other fora, because many of them have opened the watch up and played with or modded it. Something genuine watch owners just don’t do. I guess I just like that enthusiasm. I respect it.
andy tims said:
He says he knows a lot about watches. I’m not convinced, but I’d say knows plenty about trolling.
The word trolling is most often used by people with a lesser intelligence, who don't have a reasonable argument. In short, it's a school boys name calling technique. Sad but true. I have a reasonable knowledge of what constitutes a good watch, a better understanding of what makes a watch great value for money, but a relatively poor knowledge of luxury brand watches that cost as much as a good car. That doesn't mean I don't like luxury brand watches, it just means I can't afford them. For this reason I treat myself from time to time to a homage watch which is of a similar design but doesn't pretend to be the real thing. Now, can we have an understanding, don't call me childish names and I will reciprocate
TiggerBits said:
Yes, you have to ask yourself, if someone can produce a replica for £500 that is so close to the original that cost £20,000, when nobody but the original manufacturer can tell the difference, why does the original cost 40 times as much ?
I can think of loads of reasons...Employees of the legitmate watch manufacturer has to pay for things like
Staff Salaries
Staff training
Investment in plant and materials
R&D
Marketing
Business Costs
The fake watch brands just need to copy what sells
and use slave labour run by gangs to produce knock off s
tOf course I am no naïve enough to say that some of the Very expensive watches do not have a factor of snake oil woven into the fabric of the pricing.
I mean a Patek Phillips costing several hundred thousand £££'s - or a Mont Blanc costing similar... these manufacturers charge what they think the market will sustain.
Once you have a sublime reputation and there is consumer demand you can charge what the market will sustain.
When I think of fake watches despite how good they might look I just think criminal gangs, drugs, slave labour and thugs behind the little £30 trinket on a tourists wrist.
Sorry.
nbetts said:
I can think of loads of reasons...
Employees of the legitmate watch manufacturer has to pay for things like
Staff Salaries
Staff training
Investment in plant and materials
R&D
Marketing
Business Costs
The fake watch brands just need to copy what sells
and use slave labour run by gangs to produce knock off st
Of course I am no naïve enough to say that some of the Very expensive watches do not have a factor of snake oil woven into the fabric of the pricing.
I mean a Patek Phillips costing several hundred thousand £££'s - or a Mont Blanc costing similar... these manufacturers charge what they think the market will sustain.
Once you have a sublime reputation and there is consumer demand you can charge what the market will sustain.
When I think of fake watches despite how good they might look I just think criminal gangs, drugs, slave labour and thugs behind the little £30 trinket on a tourists wrist.
Sorry.
OK, I get your point, but let me break down the costs. The man hours to produce a Rolex submariner (for example) is almost certainly no more than 5. At most these people would be earning no more than about £15 per hour. The materials bought in at bulk, even for a top quality watch would be no more than £200. Of course, there are other overheads such as admin, packaging and marketing etc. These overheads would probably double the aforementioned costs, so a total production cost of about £500 is a reasonable guess. The manufacturer will then double their production cost to the retailer, who will in turn double their purchase price for the end buyer. In short, a stainless Rolex Submariner should cost the end user £2000 at most. Unfortunately it actually costs at least 4 times that. I am a retired retailer with buying knowledge, so please trust me. Employees of the legitmate watch manufacturer has to pay for things like
Staff Salaries
Staff training
Investment in plant and materials
R&D
Marketing
Business Costs
The fake watch brands just need to copy what sells
and use slave labour run by gangs to produce knock off s
tOf course I am no naïve enough to say that some of the Very expensive watches do not have a factor of snake oil woven into the fabric of the pricing.
I mean a Patek Phillips costing several hundred thousand £££'s - or a Mont Blanc costing similar... these manufacturers charge what they think the market will sustain.
Once you have a sublime reputation and there is consumer demand you can charge what the market will sustain.
When I think of fake watches despite how good they might look I just think criminal gangs, drugs, slave labour and thugs behind the little £30 trinket on a tourists wrist.
Sorry.
As far as the cheap labour and criminal gang argument goes, I don't really care. We in the west should stop attempting to enforce our working standards and morality onto other countries. If it looks like a Rolex, is of similar quality to a Rolex, and works like a Rolex, as far as I am concerned, it's ALMOST a Rolex. Like I said, I choose not to wear fake watches, but have no issue with those who do, as long as they know what they are buying
There always has and always will be massive margins in luxury goods. After all they are luxury goods - nobody needs a Rolex/Patek/insert you brand of choice here
However, the price is the price. You either choose to pay it and wear it or you don't and get on with life.
It really is that simple.
As for your point about the west trying to impose their values on areas of the world with slavery and corruption - the west is not trying to do that.
I choose not to encourage environments like that by not buying knock off clobber with questionable quality and materials born on the back of slavery and sweatshops.
This applies to everything that is fake. Invariably behind it there is a foundation based upon criminality and money laundering or worse.
But hey, you don't mind any of that cos Rolex's are too expensive...
Each to their own and all that.
However, the price is the price. You either choose to pay it and wear it or you don't and get on with life.
It really is that simple.
As for your point about the west trying to impose their values on areas of the world with slavery and corruption - the west is not trying to do that.
I choose not to encourage environments like that by not buying knock off clobber with questionable quality and materials born on the back of slavery and sweatshops.
This applies to everything that is fake. Invariably behind it there is a foundation based upon criminality and money laundering or worse.
But hey, you don't mind any of that cos Rolex's are too expensive...
Each to their own and all that.
TiggerBits said:
Jez m said:
Homage / fake... both belong in only one place
Bin.
Only guessing. You have a good collection of luxury brand watches, and a large disposal income. Perhaps a different perspective is required my friend Bin.
t is for shellsuit-wearing elevenerifes and isn't worth the money at any price?Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff