Water damage on 4yo TAG - options?
Discussion
Hi, wondering if anyone here can offer advice on how to proceed with this...
My wife has a TAG ladies quartz watch, bought direct from the Cheshire Oaks TAG store in March 2014.
Since then its had one official TAG service in April 2017, which included a new seal (I guess that's standard when replacing the battery).
Last week she noticed a lot of condensation on the inside but it was still working fine, so we took it into our local TAG approved dealer who sent it off to TAG for assessment. They've now come back with an estimate close to £800. I don't gave a full breakdown, but it includes replacing the hands and face.
I questioned why a relatively new (and recently serviced) watch could fail so spectacularly & was told it could be because she'd failed to tighten the crown, although I think it's highly unlikey this would have happened - she's very careful with it.
So a couple of questions:
- would failing to tighten the crown allow water to enter?
- any advice on how to proceed with TAG? I feel it's unreasonable for an expensive watch to fail so early in it's life & would like to challenge them for some support in resolving this.
Failing that - any recommendations for an independent who might offer a more cost effective repair?
Thanks in advance.
My wife has a TAG ladies quartz watch, bought direct from the Cheshire Oaks TAG store in March 2014.
Since then its had one official TAG service in April 2017, which included a new seal (I guess that's standard when replacing the battery).
Last week she noticed a lot of condensation on the inside but it was still working fine, so we took it into our local TAG approved dealer who sent it off to TAG for assessment. They've now come back with an estimate close to £800. I don't gave a full breakdown, but it includes replacing the hands and face.
I questioned why a relatively new (and recently serviced) watch could fail so spectacularly & was told it could be because she'd failed to tighten the crown, although I think it's highly unlikey this would have happened - she's very careful with it.
So a couple of questions:
- would failing to tighten the crown allow water to enter?
- any advice on how to proceed with TAG? I feel it's unreasonable for an expensive watch to fail so early in it's life & would like to challenge them for some support in resolving this.
Failing that - any recommendations for an independent who might offer a more cost effective repair?
Thanks in advance.
No, failing to screw the crown down shouldn't allow water in under normal use.
The principal seal is an O ring that's fitted in a groove inside the crown and seals around the outside of the case pipe. If the case pipe is unworn and the seal is good it should seal just as well regardless of the position of the crown. The relatively simple test is to run a low-pressure test (3 bar is enough) with the crown screwed down, then again with it unscrewed then, if needed, again with it out in the handset position. It shouldn't leak in any of those positions.
From experience, the more likely leak on a Tag is the glass seal. For some reason the nylon they use seems to break up over time and cracks appear. It still holds the glass securely but doesn't seal. the choices there are to replace with original (and have the same happen again until they sort out their material issues) or replace with a generic from someone like Sternkreuz that doesn't suffer the same degradation.
Tag will quote for a new dial and hands regardless of whether they're visibly marked after water ingress, basically (cynical hat on) because they can. If there's no visible marking / luminous compound damage - or if you as the owner is happy with any damage there is - then there's generally no technical need to replace them. the exception is if the lume has swollen to the point it might crumble and get into the movement but that would be VERY visible!
As for the price, quite simply they're having a laugh!
The principal seal is an O ring that's fitted in a groove inside the crown and seals around the outside of the case pipe. If the case pipe is unworn and the seal is good it should seal just as well regardless of the position of the crown. The relatively simple test is to run a low-pressure test (3 bar is enough) with the crown screwed down, then again with it unscrewed then, if needed, again with it out in the handset position. It shouldn't leak in any of those positions.
From experience, the more likely leak on a Tag is the glass seal. For some reason the nylon they use seems to break up over time and cracks appear. It still holds the glass securely but doesn't seal. the choices there are to replace with original (and have the same happen again until they sort out their material issues) or replace with a generic from someone like Sternkreuz that doesn't suffer the same degradation.
Tag will quote for a new dial and hands regardless of whether they're visibly marked after water ingress, basically (cynical hat on) because they can. If there's no visible marking / luminous compound damage - or if you as the owner is happy with any damage there is - then there's generally no technical need to replace them. the exception is if the lume has swollen to the point it might crumble and get into the movement but that would be VERY visible!
As for the price, quite simply they're having a laugh!
Edited by Variomatic on Sunday 23 December 22:43
Thanks for the helpful replies everyone.
I think we'll get the watch back and have a closer look for any visual damage before deciding what to do.
Variomatic - someone suggested you might be able to repair it? I might send you a PM once we've got it back if that's OK? Do you have a business website?
Thanks again.
I think we'll get the watch back and have a closer look for any visual damage before deciding what to do.
Variomatic - someone suggested you might be able to repair it? I might send you a PM once we've got it back if that's OK? Do you have a business website?
Thanks again.
Nope. I joined for help with my Porsche, as everyone told me it was the no1 forum.
Then once that died, I needed help with my Lancer.
Then once that died, I needed help with my TT
Then someone told me there was a section for watches, which I had never seen. Lol
I thought I would give back for all of the great help and services that people had given to me.
Repairing watches is all I am good at, therefore I can offer help in that area.
Only trying to help out our fellow piston heads.
Then once that died, I needed help with my Lancer.
Then once that died, I needed help with my TT
Then someone told me there was a section for watches, which I had never seen. Lol
I thought I would give back for all of the great help and services that people had given to me.
Repairing watches is all I am good at, therefore I can offer help in that area.
Only trying to help out our fellow piston heads.
RiggaTheMighty said:
Nope. I joined for help with my Porsche, as everyone told me it was the no1 forum.
Then once that died, I needed help with my Lancer.
Then once that died, I needed help with my TT
Then someone told me there was a section for watches, which I had never seen. Lol
I thought I would give back for all of the great help and services that people had given to me.
Repairing watches is all I am good at, therefore I can offer help in that area.
Only trying to help out our fellow piston heads.
A great response to an unnecessary comment.Then once that died, I needed help with my Lancer.
Then once that died, I needed help with my TT
Then someone told me there was a section for watches, which I had never seen. Lol
I thought I would give back for all of the great help and services that people had given to me.
Repairing watches is all I am good at, therefore I can offer help in that area.
Only trying to help out our fellow piston heads.
The contributions from the pros on this forum are always welcome.
Barchettaman said:
The contributions from the pros on this forum are always welcome.
Yep, totally agree - a valuable service & viewpoint.Besides, if an independent watchmaker has any kind of decent reputation these days, I get the impression a lot of them tend to have more work than they can actually handle, and don’t need to tout for it too much online.
There are some on here that come to solely self promote their products. I am not sure why it is tolerated and with some encouraged. I am not going to name those I feel that have over stepped the mark.
However, I do not hold Eddie, Joe, Dominic and now Rigga in that same bucket. I appreciate their positive contributions and have benefited from their assistance. The one thing I will say that sets Eddie, Joe and Dominic apart from Rigga is that they are like the Candy Man (in a good way). They never appear on a thread to offer help with out their name being mentioned. (in some cases 5 times). Perhaps it is this that the earlier poster was drawing attention to a little bluntly.
However, I do not hold Eddie, Joe, Dominic and now Rigga in that same bucket. I appreciate their positive contributions and have benefited from their assistance. The one thing I will say that sets Eddie, Joe and Dominic apart from Rigga is that they are like the Candy Man (in a good way). They never appear on a thread to offer help with out their name being mentioned. (in some cases 5 times). Perhaps it is this that the earlier poster was drawing attention to a little bluntly.
h0b0 said:
There are some on here that come to solely self promote their products. I am not sure why it is tolerated and with some encouraged. I am not going to name those I feel that have over stepped the mark.
However, I do not hold Eddie, Joe, Dominic and now Rigga in that same bucket. I appreciate their positive contributions and have benefited from their assistance. The one thing I will say that sets Eddie, Joe and Dominic apart from Rigga is that they are like the Candy Man (in a good way). They never appear on a thread to offer help with out their name being mentioned. (in some cases 5 times). Perhaps it is this that the earlier poster was drawing attention to a little bluntly.
Thank you for that post. However, I do not hold Eddie, Joe, Dominic and now Rigga in that same bucket. I appreciate their positive contributions and have benefited from their assistance. The one thing I will say that sets Eddie, Joe and Dominic apart from Rigga is that they are like the Candy Man (in a good way). They never appear on a thread to offer help with out their name being mentioned. (in some cases 5 times). Perhaps it is this that the earlier poster was drawing attention to a little bluntly.
I don’t disagree with you there to be honest.
I am genuinely just trying to help out the people who are posting a thread actually asking for help. Isn’t that the point of posting a thread in the first place?
Anyway, going forward, I will not comment on any posts at all, unless someone asks for my input.
I have got more work from this site in the last year from people recommending me in a post, than I have from “self promotion.”
I apologize for offering to help people out when I am not asked.
Surely the first step is to speak to TAG and advise them its recently been serviced etc? See if they will back down? surely they offer a warranty on their service? or is this where you find out the service you paid for was actually just the watch store replacing battery and nothing else.
AJB88 said:
Surely the first step is to speak to TAG and advise them its recently been serviced etc? See if they will back down? surely they offer a warranty on their service? or is this where you find out the service you paid for was actually just the watch store replacing battery and nothing else.
The problem with that is that most manufacturers are, by default, the authority on their products. So if, as in this case, Tag have said "must have left the crown unscrewed" they expect the owner to accept that. A bit like early anti-corrosion warranties they also rely on unrealistic "recommendations" such as annual water resistance checks to excuse when things go wrong. The fact that any seal that doesn't last more than 3 or 4 years isn't really fit for purpose given modern materials is beside the point as far as they're concerned.It's entirely possible to challenge them and they'll often back down "for goodwill" if you have a good technical argument such as a failed glass seal or good understanding of the crown seal system - a crown that only seals when screwed down is such poor design it would trash their reputation if publicised. But they bank on the fact that most owners won't go to those lengths and simply stump up the several hundred pounds for £50 or so of materials to repair.
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