Good commuter towns north of London

[Spindoctor]

C.A.R. said:

I know you haven't asked about Baldock specifically but I thought I'd sing it's praises anyway, as I'm so fond of it. I've no idea what sort of property you'd get around here on your budget, I'm a bit hopeless in that respect!

Agree that Baldock is a great little place - its had some money spent on the high street area which has really lifted the place up without losing its character.

From what I've seen recently, sub £300k mostly buys you flats. From around £330k you can get a small 2/3 bed house. But as usual it depends on exact location and, to some extent, condition. And the crazy prices of London are less than 40 mins away by train.

[putonghua73]

C.A.R. said:

What did your partner not like about Baldock putonghua73?

We are a long way from getting onto the property ladder, but we rent in Baldock and absolutely love it here. We have two young daughters and the schools here have a very good reputation, so eventually we'd love to buy here (large financial winnings pending).

Distance, in a nut-shell. She wants nearish London via tube or overground with decent schools. It's denial, quite frankly, because £285k does not buy a 2 bed house and garden factoring the above. There are properties appearing in Bishops Stortford and other areas with a direct line into Liverpool St. But £285k [housing] mostly gets you Harlow, Luton and Stevenage in terms of numbers available. Unsurprisingly none of these - fiancée has poo-pooed outskirts of Harlow - are considerations.

Therefore, we are left with a couple of other properties that appear. Yesterday we visited a house that we had no interest in buying in Chesham. Despite a couple of objections in the thread, from what we have seen (and both of us are very aware of what a genuine hole actually is), Chesham doesn't even come close to an area I'd describe as a hole or would give me pause to live there (my fiancée's younger sister lives in Leytonstone - I dislike driving there). The house in question was too narrow and access to the bathroom was via a guest bedroom. The owners had done a fantastic job making use of limited space and it had lovely features [fire-places], but it was more to actually view a house and get a first impression of the area.

I've left house-hunting to my fiancée at present because she's still in denial (I see her viewing £300k properties and do scratch my head where she thinks an extra 20k will suddenly materialise- unless she plans to seriously reorganise her business and withdraw money from it). She would be willing to pay £3.3k ish a year and spend 80 mins on the Met line to get her to Liverpool St. Thus, I'm only going to add properties around Bishops Stortford to my RightMove list because she will not consider Baldock or Royston in present frame of mind [Chesham].

Keep up the suggestions tho, because her Achilles heel is decent schools. I'm making a case that for our requirements and budget, we have to look further into Herts. Economic reality is that you need to have £300k before you can consider anywhere near M25 region in a relatively ok area.

[BorniteIdentity]

Zippee said:

As stated earlier in the thread but St Neots is a nice market town in Cambs and is 40 minutes into Kings Cross on the fast trains.

Just to reiterate this point.

I have commuted (by car) to London 5 days a week from St Neots for 6 years. Road and Rail links are excellent, quality of life is great and VFM is about as good as it gets. Also, if your industries take you towards Cambridge, then you're 25 minutes from the city.

Good luck whatever... it looks like you're going to need it.

[rich85uk]

putonghua73 said:

Therefore, we are left with a couple of other properties that appear. Yesterday we visited a house that we had no interest in buying in Chesham. Despite a couple of objections in the thread, from what we have seen (and both of us are very aware of what a genuine hole actually is), Chesham doesn't even come close to an area I'd describe as a hole or would give me pause to live there (my fiancée's younger sister lives in Leytonstone - I dislike driving there). The house in question was too narrow and access to the bathroom was via a guest bedroom. The owners had done a fantastic job making use of limited space and it had lovely features [fire-places], but it was more to actually view a house and get a first impression of the area.
.

In that case anywhere in this general area will be fine, Aylesbury offers the best VFM with everything you need and plenty of choice at your budget. Wendover is a lovely market town with some cracking countryside on its doorstep and a train station.Stoke Mandeville is worth looking at, nice big village with a couple of good pubs and a train station right in the middle. Something like this could be in budget if they accepted an offer:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Plenty of good schools in this area, good luck and hope you find somewhere soon as prices are rapidly going up round here

[essayer]

.. Agree on Bucks .. Just watch out for the HS2 route

[IanA2]

@Putonghua73 Have you considered Peterborough. Reasonable prices at the moment (though will be rising with faster train times). Currently fast train is 50 mins. In the range 240 to 270 there's a fair amount of choice in the mile around the station:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find....

[pfnsht]

As others have said I'd take a look at St Neots; the commute time is only just out of your criteria and it's a much nicer environment (Baldock aside) than all of the other more reasonable places further south to be fair as it's not in the "3 counties". There are also some nice looking villages outside of it plus it's near enough to both Cambridge and MK for day trips to shops etc.

I live in Potters Bar and bought in 2010, I think it is bonkers how much houses have gone up by and surely it's got to go off the boil sooner rather than later. It doesn't help any normal person out in reality - young people/families can't possibly keep up with a near doubling in house prices over 5 years without anywhere near the same in their pay packets. London and pockets of the South East are becoming/have become unattainable to all but the elite which is sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't say Potters Bar is nicer than St Neots, it's just closer to London which is both a good and bad thing in my opinion.

[anonymous-user]

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Plenty of houses in your (extended) price range now. Need to move quick though, they don't tend to hang around very long. Stortford also has some very high performing schools schools - this is the reason pretty much every young family chooses to move to the area.

http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/GCSE-RESULT...

[putonghua73]

Update: agent called my fiancée to say that Hoddesdon property is available - fiancée will view at 16:30. All sounds a bit too convenient / gamesmanship. If she likes it, she'll make an offer (subject to contract, structural survey, yada yada yada). The last time I left a housing decision to another party [friend], I ended up living on Garrick St (the street that was recently reported in the news as only having one resident - with all the other houses boarded up) in Liverpool over 20 years ago!

Hi folks,

Thanks for the suggestions. Both Peterborough and St Neots - at present - are outside our commuting range in terms of time and cost. I have to drive to NW London; thus, at present we are still looking at Chesham, Cheshunt-Hoddesdon-Bishops Stortford areas (well, I'm looking at the latter!). Budget has crept up to £300k with £50k deposit. No room to move any further upwards

We both liked this property in Hoddesdon added yesterday: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope... Fiancée called agent to find that someone viewed the property yesterday and immediately made an offer! My fiancée will visit the property today to determine whether to submit an offer in case the initial offer falls through (no gazumping 'tho).

She contacted a couple of agents regarding the availability of a couple of properties on our radar, to be informed all under offer / under legal process! Most have gone even before advertised on property websites! Crazy!

Now that we're going through this process [house-buying], I'm finally starting to understand how fast one has to move! I'll be completely honest and admit that I had absolutely no idea how hard this process would be due to the speed that one has to move.

We've been entertaining family and friends for the last couple of Saturdays, went out last night with friends, have another friend visiting Friday - all of which is not conducive to house-hunting with ruthless efficiency. I'm going to ban any further social contact until we have a house-hunting project plan detailing milestones, activities, and time-scales to enable us to move at pace.

My fiancée has this maddening, Jack Torrance axe-murdering inducing habit of changing plans without warning, and completely deviating from the agreed plan i.e. instead of driving to a number of areas to get a feel for them, organises a house-visit on the same day we are cooking for family and friends and informs me the night before!

I'll sit down and agree a plan and our weekend schedule with her at dinner tonight. If she then changes the plan, I'll head straight to the hardware store to lovingly caress axes ...

Note: thanks for the Bishops Stortford properties, Had Ham. Saved a couple of them. I suspect that we'll miss the boat because Bishops Stortford is not yet on her radar.

Edited by putonghua73 on Wednesday 17th February 13:22

[okgo]

Your Mrs sounds like a total nightmare.

[Zippee]

had ham said:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Aaahh!! Pig Lane - I used to go fishing down there every weekend when I was a lad
Quite like that apartment as well.

[Chris Type R]

putonghua73 said:

We both liked this property in Hoddesdon added yesterday: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope... Fiancée called agent to find that someone viewed the property yesterday and immediately made an offer! My fiancée will visit the property today to determine whether to submit an offer in case the initial offer falls through (no gazumping 'tho).

If you know the area you want to move to, it helps to make yourself known to the estate agents & the parameters of your search. This can help you get a bit of a head-start.

[putonghua73]

okgo said:

Your Mrs sounds like a total nightmare.

Ha! In all fairness, there is a degree of exaggeration. That said, those annoyances are the only real annoyances that I have with her. She is the diametrical opposite of the 'snake with tits' oft quoted in certain sections of PH. I am incredibly fortunate to have ended up with her - and not to have been stabbed multiple times in the chest (she has threatened on occasion). I'm probably much more annoying than she is; so much so, that If I met a version of myself from a parallel dimension, I would have to seriously repress the irresistible urge to give myself a hard punch in the face!

Moving on from relationship issues ...

Chris Type R said:

If you know the area you want to move to, it helps to make yourself known to the estate agents & the parameters of your search. This can help you get a bit of a head-start.

Good advice, Chris. We'll be re-visiting Chesham again this weekend and will follow your advice. My girlfriend visited the property that became available in Hoddesdon [Rye House area] this afternoon, and the contrast with Chesham was night and day. She informed me that Rye House and the surrounding area was decrepit, full of litter and discarded rubbish and plastic everywhere - much worse than anything she had seen in East London. The property in question was much like the property we visited in Chesham i.e. much too narrow (smaller in fact), although the landlord - a lovely chap by all accounts - had decorated the property and kept it in immaculate condition. My girlfriend was impressed at the level of cleanliness because she had never seen a house as pristine.

Although we may differ in some aspects, we do agree on environmental quality of the surrounding area.

[C.A.R.]

I used to work in Hoddesdon, wouldn't have wanted to live there mind. It really is a bit of a dive!

Broxbourne station and the immediate area isn't too bad - if still within budget. That was where the MD lived anyway!

[okgo]

Is the budget set at that level for a reason? Seems quite low given two London workers AND what your partner was paying in rent prior? Seems like you could easily find a place if you added more budget (based on your Mrs looking at places at 300k)

[putonghua73]

okgo said:

Is the budget set at that level for a reason? Seems quite low given two London workers AND what your partner was paying in rent prior? Seems like you could easily find a place if you added more budget (based on your Mrs looking at places at 300k)

£300k is the ceiling based upon (1) deposit [£50k], and (2) using conservative borrowing ratios i.e. no more than x4 earnings. My fiancee will also be developing her small business into a new area in the next year or so, thus will suffer an income drop until the new business venture is up and running.

I have a very good long-term memory. I distinctly remember interest rates in the 90s hitting 15% during the ERM crisis. I also remember a sustained period of 7% saving interest rates in the mid-2000s. On an historic basis, current interest rate levels are an anomaly, thus we both want a significant margin of safety in terms of disposable income e.g. increased child-costs, long-term savings for university, our long-term savings, and also my fiancee doesn't have a pension provision. It would be quite nice to have a weekend break or two during the year. Hence, we have zero desire to mortgage ourselves to the hilt and then have a meager disposable income.

Thus, we want a sustainable mortgage over the life of the mortgage. Also, my fiancee is making plans for a 2nd child before our first is even born! It's a series of trade-offs and finding that nice Goldilocks middle ground (if possible).

Edited by putonghua73 on Thursday 18th February 12:38

[Zippee]

putonghua73 said:

okgo said:

Is the budget set at that level for a reason? Seems quite low given two London workers AND what your partner was paying in rent prior? Seems like you could easily find a place if you added more budget (based on your Mrs looking at places at 300k)

£300k is the ceiling based upon (1) deposit [£50k], and (2) using conservative borrowing ratios i.e. no more than x4 earnings. My fiancee will also be developing her small business into a new area in the next year or so, thus will suffer an income drop until the new business venture is up and running.

I have a very good long-term memory. I distinctly remember interest rates in the 90s hitting 15% during the ERM crisis. I also remember a sustained period of 7% saving interest rates in the mid-2000s. On an historic basis, current interest rate levels are an anomaly, thus we both want a significant margin of safety in terms of disposable income e.g. increased child-costs, long-term savings for university, our long-term savings, and also my fiancee doesn't have a pension provision. It would be quite nice to have a weekend break or two during the year. Hence, we have zero desire to mortgage ourselves to the hilt and then have a meager disposable income.

Thus, we want a sustainable mortgage over the life of the mortgage. Also, my fiancee is making plans for a 2nd child before our first is even born! It's a series of trade-offs and finding that nice Goldilocks middle ground (if possible).

Edited by putonghua73 on Thursday 18th February 12:38

Good to hear of someone actually being sensible for once rather than just borrowing to the hilt

[BorniteIdentity]

Just to say: I commute daily from St Neots to North West London.

The A1 is actually a better road than the M1 (less crowded, more enjoyable drive) and it takes me 50 minutes to Watford, an Hour to Rickmansworth and a bit more into Middx.

Trains are also very good.

Nonetheless, Good luck.

[lemmingjames]

yeah but what time are you commuting in though?

[Cheib]

rich85uk said:

loudlashadjuster said:

I'd also consider everything VERY carefully before considering Chesham.

Ditto and this is coming from someone who lives in Aylesbury Apart from a very small but nice old town part it isn't very nice,the town centre is rubbish, radio and phone signal is patchy at best and there is a fairly large gypsy community

Although Aylesbury is not the perfect town it has much more going for it, train is 60 min to London but i know people who drive to Tring or Amersham for a quicker train. Leighton Buzzard is also not a bad choice

There are a lot worse places in the world than Chesham...we moved about about 10 mins away last summer. Sure it's not Great Missenden, Berkhamsted, Wendover, Little Chalfont etc but it has a Waitrose and a Sainsburys and you are 5 or 10 minute drive depending on which way you go from the line into Marylebone or Euston as well as having a Met Line station (limited service but it does have one).

There are definitely plenty of rough parts but there are also some decent parts....given the prices of surrounding towns I can actually see some potential. I used to live in West Hampstead years 20 plus years ago and fk me has that changed.

It's got a Waitrose, train station to London, Grammar Schools, is relatively cheap and is on the doorstep of stunning countryside. There are a lot of commueter towns around London that dont have the same to offer and are much more expensive. I think it'll do better. I am told 15 years ago Amersham was nothing special and has changed massively (Old Amersham being much nicer)...I can see that happening. You could argue it's got the same or better amenities than all of the above except Berkhamsted but as nice as Berkhamsted is we discounted it fairly quickly when we were moving out of London because of the traffic....it's a nightmare and getting worse (new build estate currently going up with 300 houses) so another 600 cars running around on Saturday morning.