China reveals CRH 500 HST
Discussion
I've used HSTs in China quite a bit and find them fantastic, there's no reason the 500kmh one will be any different. After boarding you get an announcement in a soft female voice saying "welcome to(name of train)" The last one I was on was called Harmony, it reminded of Blaine the Train in Wizard and Glass in the Stephen King Gunslinger series.
They are cheap, Shanghai main station to Kunshan, about 50 miles, £2.50 normal class or £3.50 first class. The tracks are built in the air on concrete columns.
Standing in Kunshan station while a train went through at 300kph is something I will remember for ever.
They are cheap, Shanghai main station to Kunshan, about 50 miles, £2.50 normal class or £3.50 first class. The tracks are built in the air on concrete columns.
Standing in Kunshan station while a train went through at 300kph is something I will remember for ever.
Yuxi said:
I've used HSTs in China quite a bit and find them fantastic, there's no reason the 500kmh one will be any different. After boarding you get an announcement in a soft female voice saying "welcome to(name of train)" The last one I was on was called Harmony, it reminded of Blaine the Train in Wizard and Glass in the Stephen King Gunslinger series.
They are cheap, Shanghai main station to Kunshan, about 50 miles, £2.50 normal class or £3.50 first class. The tracks are built in the air on concrete columns.
Standing in Kunshan station while a train went through at 300kph is something I will remember for ever.
All the other users of high speed rail have been able to make trains go at 500km for about 20 years or so. The issues that they have still to get around are energy usage and track and cable wear, these have not been addressed (if they ever can be) by the CRH 500.They are cheap, Shanghai main station to Kunshan, about 50 miles, £2.50 normal class or £3.50 first class. The tracks are built in the air on concrete columns.
Standing in Kunshan station while a train went through at 300kph is something I will remember for ever.
In fact after starting services with headline grabbing speeds many of these trains have been slowed down to the same speeds used elsewhere in the 180-210mph speed range.
jbi said:
Talksteer said:
In fact after starting services with headline grabbing speeds many of these trains have been slowed down to the same speeds used elsewhere in the 180-210mph speed range.
they will get a speed raise back up to 350km/hr soon enough... just watch this space 
The TGV was run at 500kmh over 20 years ago, there isn't a paradigm shift in technology which will get around the fact that you are trying to push a train through the horrible thick air at sea level altitudes. A plane at 30,000ft has less that 1/3 of the air density to contend with.
Talksteer said:
jbi said:
Talksteer said:
In fact after starting services with headline grabbing speeds many of these trains have been slowed down to the same speeds used elsewhere in the 180-210mph speed range.
they will get a speed raise back up to 350km/hr soon enough... just watch this space The TGV was run at 500kmh over 20 years ago, there isn't a paradigm shift in technology which will get around the fact that you are trying to push a train through the horrible thick air at sea level altitudes. A plane at 30,000ft has less that 1/3 of the air density to contend with.
This train will run 500km/hr reliably with full commercial spec.
jbi said:
Talksteer said:
jbi said:
Talksteer said:
In fact after starting services with headline grabbing speeds many of these trains have been slowed down to the same speeds used elsewhere in the 180-210mph speed range.
they will get a speed raise back up to 350km/hr soon enough... just watch this space The TGV was run at 500kmh over 20 years ago, there isn't a paradigm shift in technology which will get around the fact that you are trying to push a train through the horrible thick air at sea level altitudes. A plane at 30,000ft has less that 1/3 of the air density to contend with.
This train will run 500km/hr reliably with full commercial spec.
The TGV which went at 500kmph in 1990 wasn't using any technology not commercially available at the time, they could have designed the TGV to run at 500kmph in 1990.
As it stands the TGV (and all other HST) motors are sized for acceleration not top speed, even a regular TGV Atlatique is probably capable of around 260mph (limited by drag) without modification. The various trains designed to run at 380kmph are all capable of doing around 300mph without modification.
The reason the TGV doesn't run at 260mph was because of the energy requirements, the elevated maintenance costs from wear on the catenary (and stretching), pantograph and rails, the noise, the requirement for larger brakes and increased stopping distance.
My contention is that it is possible to operate at these speeds and it has been possible to do so for a long time. The fact that nobody else does is down to economics (and geography) and if the Chinese do bring such a train into service it is neither big nor clever :-)
simonrockman said:
jbi said:
too expensive apparently... even the Chinese don't have limitless cash
The really cool way to do a mag lev would be to put the motor in the track and just have the train float on that. You could make the train so much lighter and faster.Talksteer said:
The reason the TGV doesn't run at 260mph was because of the energy requirements, the elevated maintenance costs from wear on the catenary (and stretching), pantograph and rails, the noise, the requirement for larger brakes and increased stopping distance.
I would add geography and signalling technology to that list.The Chinese trains have better alignment than the french TGV and will have better signalling as well, not to mention ballastless track and continuously welded rail.
No doubt maintenance will be increased for the higher speed trains, but the Chinese simply have better infrastructure, better trains and a larger/cheaper workforce with which to keep the whole shebang running.
The Chinese will be leading the sector in the coming years simply due to the huge fraction of the total market they will own.
jbi said:
Talksteer said:
The reason the TGV doesn't run at 260mph was because of the energy requirements, the elevated maintenance costs from wear on the catenary (and stretching), pantograph and rails, the noise, the requirement for larger brakes and increased stopping distance.
I would add geography and signalling technology to that list.The Chinese trains have better alignment than the french TGV and will have better signalling as well, not to mention ballastless track and continuously welded rail.
No doubt maintenance will be increased for the higher speed trains, but the Chinese simply have better infrastructure, better trains and a larger/cheaper workforce with which to keep the whole shebang running.
The Chinese will be leading the sector in the coming years simply due to the huge fraction of the total market they will own.
Styling.
Do the Chins have any?
Its not as if at 500km/hr anyone is going to trip and go head first into the flidge is it, nahh, no chance.
Its a nice flidge.
Very eighties, and wedged there its oh so feng shui.
Looks right in place, dun it?
Wedged head long in the middle of that cabin.
About as in place as that triangular corner table thing to the right of it,
Who in their right mind put that their, and wtf is it for?
Not mention the cricket seats out a 1968 FX4 London Cab, retrimmed in red, nailed on the right, at some distance apart from the next one as well.
They look so comfy, and safe at a high speed derail.
About as safe as those stools.
Theyll never fall over, thatll never happen.
Don't get me statred on the Boeing 737 roof lighting.
Ive seen better on a bus.
In fact they should have copird the interior of a 1966 AEC Routemaster.
Stripey red seats, chrome rails, bars n everything.
Jack, from on the buses could stalk the cabin with his ticket machine.
Similarly, they design the cabin with a key.
What?
It looks like the key out of an old honda lawn mower.
Looks as out of place as a mechanical odmeter, in a digital dash in an 86 Datsun
They've also got some kind of ghey doorman to Id say drive the train, but that doesn't sound, or rook right. right.
Very Reg Varney, in an up to date Sino way.
Just looking at the photos I can almost feel the build quality of that plastic.
Just take a look at the awful melamine shelf below the screens.
An for that matter look at that graphic on the screen.
How backward technologically is that awful graphic?
it looks out of date, by at least fifteen years right now.
Like a testcard/intro count down, er counter from the porducers room in a Tiswas studio FFS
Engineering and technology coming out of China, they're going to take over the world.
Yeah sure they are.
Just don't trip over your shoelace at 500kn/h in front of that flidge.
Do the Chins have any?
Its not as if at 500km/hr anyone is going to trip and go head first into the flidge is it, nahh, no chance.
Its a nice flidge.
Very eighties, and wedged there its oh so feng shui.
Looks right in place, dun it?
Wedged head long in the middle of that cabin.
About as in place as that triangular corner table thing to the right of it,
Who in their right mind put that their, and wtf is it for?
Not mention the cricket seats out a 1968 FX4 London Cab, retrimmed in red, nailed on the right, at some distance apart from the next one as well.
They look so comfy, and safe at a high speed derail.
About as safe as those stools.
Theyll never fall over, thatll never happen.
Don't get me statred on the Boeing 737 roof lighting.
Ive seen better on a bus.
In fact they should have copird the interior of a 1966 AEC Routemaster.
Stripey red seats, chrome rails, bars n everything.
Jack, from on the buses could stalk the cabin with his ticket machine.
Similarly, they design the cabin with a key.
What?
It looks like the key out of an old honda lawn mower.
Looks as out of place as a mechanical odmeter, in a digital dash in an 86 Datsun
They've also got some kind of ghey doorman to Id say drive the train, but that doesn't sound, or rook right. right.
Very Reg Varney, in an up to date Sino way.
Just looking at the photos I can almost feel the build quality of that plastic.
Just take a look at the awful melamine shelf below the screens.
An for that matter look at that graphic on the screen.
How backward technologically is that awful graphic?
it looks out of date, by at least fifteen years right now.
Like a testcard/intro count down, er counter from the porducers room in a Tiswas studio FFS
Engineering and technology coming out of China, they're going to take over the world.
Yeah sure they are.
Just don't trip over your shoelace at 500kn/h in front of that flidge.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Tuesday 1st January 00:34
stuttgartmetal said:
Styling.
Do the Chins have any?
Its not as if at 500km/hr anyone is going to trip and go head first into the flidge is it, nahh, no chance.
Its a nice flidge.
Very eighties, and wedged there its oh so feng shui.
Looks right in place, dun it?
Wedged head long in the middle of that cabin.
About as in place as that triangular corner table thing to the right of it,
Who in their right mind put that their, and wtf is it for?
Not mention the cricket seats out a 1968 FX4 London Cab, retrimmed in red, nailed on the right, at some distance apart from the next one as well.
They look so comfy, and safe at a high speed derail.
About as safe as those stools.
Theyll never fall over, thatll never happen.
Don't get me statred on the Boeing 737 roof lighting.
Ive seen better on a bus.
In fact they should have copird the interior of a 1966 AEC Routemaster.
Stripey red seats, chrome rails, bars n everything.
Jack, from on the buses could stalk the cabin with his ticket machine.
Similarly, they design the cabin with a key.
What?
It looks like the key out of an old honda lawn mower.
Looks as out of place as a mechanical odmeter, in a digital dash in an 86 Datsun
They've also got some kind of ghey doorman to Id say drive the train, but that doesn't sound, or rook right. right.
Very Reg Varney, in an up to date Sino way.
Just looking at the photos I can almost feel the build quality of that plastic.
Just take a look at the awful melamine shelf below the screens.
An for that matter look at that graphic on the screen.
How backward technologically is that awful graphic?
it looks out of date, by at least fifteen years right now.
Like a testcard/intro count down, er counter from the porducers room in a Tiswas studio FFS
Engineering and technology coming out of China, they're going to take over the world.
Yeah sure they are.
Just don't trip over your shoelace at 500kn/h in front of that flidge.
You sound just like the people who ridiculed Japanese motorcycles, just before they decimated our bike industry.Do the Chins have any?
Its not as if at 500km/hr anyone is going to trip and go head first into the flidge is it, nahh, no chance.
Its a nice flidge.
Very eighties, and wedged there its oh so feng shui.
Looks right in place, dun it?
Wedged head long in the middle of that cabin.
About as in place as that triangular corner table thing to the right of it,
Who in their right mind put that their, and wtf is it for?
Not mention the cricket seats out a 1968 FX4 London Cab, retrimmed in red, nailed on the right, at some distance apart from the next one as well.
They look so comfy, and safe at a high speed derail.
About as safe as those stools.
Theyll never fall over, thatll never happen.
Don't get me statred on the Boeing 737 roof lighting.
Ive seen better on a bus.
In fact they should have copird the interior of a 1966 AEC Routemaster.
Stripey red seats, chrome rails, bars n everything.
Jack, from on the buses could stalk the cabin with his ticket machine.
Similarly, they design the cabin with a key.
What?
It looks like the key out of an old honda lawn mower.
Looks as out of place as a mechanical odmeter, in a digital dash in an 86 Datsun
They've also got some kind of ghey doorman to Id say drive the train, but that doesn't sound, or rook right. right.
Very Reg Varney, in an up to date Sino way.
Just looking at the photos I can almost feel the build quality of that plastic.
Just take a look at the awful melamine shelf below the screens.
An for that matter look at that graphic on the screen.
How backward technologically is that awful graphic?
it looks out of date, by at least fifteen years right now.
Like a testcard/intro count down, er counter from the porducers room in a Tiswas studio FFS
Engineering and technology coming out of China, they're going to take over the world.
Yeah sure they are.
Just don't trip over your shoelace at 500kn/h in front of that flidge.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Tuesday 1st January 00:34
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