looking for fireball dinghy experts...a few questions
Discussion
Chimune said:
Thanks guys. I can confirm that the mast is only a few seasons old.
also I realised my shackle idea wasn't going to work just after I posted. I was reading elsewhere that part wire,part rope main halliards were only used as the older ropes stretched too much. Modern ropes don't though, so many people replace it and fix with a horn cleat. I'm sure that's what my mirror had and it was simple to drop the main when reaching land.
btw- whats the best way of freeing up aluminium pullies that refuse to turn anymore ? heat ?
These days most dinghies have a dyneema or spectra main halliards, simply tying off on a cleat or through a v jammer and would be a simple modification for you - I think these run better on the sheave wheel at the top of the mast. and they dont really stretch. I would avoid kevlar cored ropes for this as it can be quite brittle causing it to snap where it goes around the wheelalso I realised my shackle idea wasn't going to work just after I posted. I was reading elsewhere that part wire,part rope main halliards were only used as the older ropes stretched too much. Modern ropes don't though, so many people replace it and fix with a horn cleat. I'm sure that's what my mirror had and it was simple to drop the main when reaching land.
btw- whats the best way of freeing up aluminium pullies that refuse to turn anymore ? heat ?
With regards the sheave wheel, you need to disassemble it, usually the axle is located with a split pin. get the axle out and the wheel, if the wire has cut into the wheel, get a new one, clean up the axle with wirewool or wet and dry. Generally this will get it moving nicely, but I suppose you could give it a squirt of pfte lube
mph1977 said:
but parts of the rigging shown such as the sea sure blocks and whatever flavour of centre jammer is fitted and the one side cam cleats are certainly stuff that was considered 'old' 20 years ago, asis a pure centre main vs split tail or 'laser style' mainsheets
i suspect in 197-blur it had either a weak kicker or a lever job - has it got a cascade now - but again cascade kickers are hardly state of the art being bog standard fare 20 + years ago , it;s all upside down Strut 'gnavs' post the 4 and 5-tonners
the clamcleats on the trapeze with the small block built in to the back were a 'new' idea 20 some yearsago
So what you are saying - is i have a "sound boat with ancient kit." i suspect in 197-blur it had either a weak kicker or a lever job - has it got a cascade now - but again cascade kickers are hardly state of the art being bog standard fare 20 + years ago , it;s all upside down Strut 'gnavs' post the 4 and 5-tonners
the clamcleats on the trapeze with the small block built in to the back were a 'new' idea 20 some yearsago
Good job the sails and mast are newish !
Chimune said:
Eventually got time to take my new dinghy out on Sunday for it maiden voyage.
Was solo with about 15-20mph wind. Was out for about 2hrs and got two captize drills (
) in.
1st thoughts are - wow - very fast and very sensitive.
I was spilling a lot of wind - but thats partly due to my unfitness and inability to lean right out for more than ~ 60 secnds - belly muscles rather sore this morning !
What really amazed me was the difference just 2 inches on the main sheet made. Someone mentioned that Fireballs have a very narrow performance band - that they are simple to sail badly, but very difficult to sail very fast - this statement is obvious to me now.
It planes very easily - it must be utterly mental on a reach with wire based crew !!
Other things of note were:
The speed at which she went turtle after captize. 60 seconds perhaps ! As its quite tireing getting it back up from 180degs on my own, i may have to tie something small and floaty to the top of the mast. Dunno what yet..
Nice and easy to get back in though - as it sits so low in the water.
Noticed some water in both port and starboard boyancy tanks afterwards. Need to see why thats happening.
Having vertically pointing jib sheet cleat comming up from seat isnt very handy for solo use. I may need to add a second set pointing at me.
And Hard-Drive was correct - having to pull down to uncleat the main is a baaad idea !
Love the mainsheet route and design though . Lots of room in the cockpit and not too many sheets swilling around. Tacking is easy ! Gybing lead to captize both times ...
The toothed main halliard 'cleat' thing is a pita ! it took all my strength to hoist the main up high enough to get the wire on only the very top tooth. Perhaps just adding a long shackle to attach the main, will bring it down the mast a bit. but i still dont like the setup. Unless this solved by Hard-Drives suggestion of 'unpick the bottom 6" of the bolt rope stitching' ?
I need to setup a rope system to raise and lower the rudder without having to dive over the transom and use the butterfly/pin combo.
To reply to some of the other outstanding questions above:
dirkgently - yes its an old boat - 1972 - i have all the original order and build logs, parts lists and costs, plus the measurement cert etc. im a sucker for history ! I wonder if its coincidence that 40 years after i was born, i have purchased a boat and a house - both built in 1972 !
Hard-Drive - yes its a plycraft boat - how can you tell ? Do you know the yard ? Someone called Neale is listed as builder too.
Class moment - someone on shore overheard by the gf, exclaiming - "bloody hell - is that a Fireball? !"
Fireballs are indeed mental. Missed this thread first time round.Was solo with about 15-20mph wind. Was out for about 2hrs and got two captize drills (
) in.1st thoughts are - wow - very fast and very sensitive.
I was spilling a lot of wind - but thats partly due to my unfitness and inability to lean right out for more than ~ 60 secnds - belly muscles rather sore this morning !
What really amazed me was the difference just 2 inches on the main sheet made. Someone mentioned that Fireballs have a very narrow performance band - that they are simple to sail badly, but very difficult to sail very fast - this statement is obvious to me now.
It planes very easily - it must be utterly mental on a reach with wire based crew !!
Other things of note were:
The speed at which she went turtle after captize. 60 seconds perhaps ! As its quite tireing getting it back up from 180degs on my own, i may have to tie something small and floaty to the top of the mast. Dunno what yet..
Nice and easy to get back in though - as it sits so low in the water.
Noticed some water in both port and starboard boyancy tanks afterwards. Need to see why thats happening.
Having vertically pointing jib sheet cleat comming up from seat isnt very handy for solo use. I may need to add a second set pointing at me.
And Hard-Drive was correct - having to pull down to uncleat the main is a baaad idea !
Love the mainsheet route and design though . Lots of room in the cockpit and not too many sheets swilling around. Tacking is easy ! Gybing lead to captize both times ...
The toothed main halliard 'cleat' thing is a pita ! it took all my strength to hoist the main up high enough to get the wire on only the very top tooth. Perhaps just adding a long shackle to attach the main, will bring it down the mast a bit. but i still dont like the setup. Unless this solved by Hard-Drives suggestion of 'unpick the bottom 6" of the bolt rope stitching' ?
I need to setup a rope system to raise and lower the rudder without having to dive over the transom and use the butterfly/pin combo.
To reply to some of the other outstanding questions above:
dirkgently - yes its an old boat - 1972 - i have all the original order and build logs, parts lists and costs, plus the measurement cert etc. im a sucker for history ! I wonder if its coincidence that 40 years after i was born, i have purchased a boat and a house - both built in 1972 !
Hard-Drive - yes its a plycraft boat - how can you tell ? Do you know the yard ? Someone called Neale is listed as builder too.
Class moment - someone on shore overheard by the gf, exclaiming - "bloody hell - is that a Fireball? !"
I love them, absolutely addictive things. I learnt how to avoid death in them out of Aberystwyth harbour as a student. I say avoid death as the way of entering the harbour was to put it on its rails, hang off the wire and point it at the harbour wall/rocks at some stupid speed and then aim to miss them.
It wasnt sailing, it was avoiding death. Kinda like the old flying jokes with regards to landing...its just crashing gracefully! Big kudos to anybody who can actually control the things properly, dont think I could ever claim to have mastered them. Managed not to die though and loved every second on them
Oh come on, Fireballs are tame compared to a skiff like a 12, 18 or 49er, and positively dull in anything less than F4. But for big breeze they are absolutely fantastic, I don't think there's anything better when it's really nuclear. Here's some footage of me and my mate winning a pursuit race last year on a pretty big day, despite a few swims along the way! I'm the driver on GBR14612, things get quite good about the 11:00 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enp8vShvRoU&fea...
OP, re your main hoisting issue, you need to keep the boom off the gooseneck, ensure kicker/cunno/outhaul are all free, hoist the sail, and then attach the boom to the gooseneck last. Get someone to hold the boom flat, and slightly above gooseneck height as you hoist. When its on, you should then be pulling the boom down onto the gooseneck. If you swap the halyard, use something like 3 or 4mm dyneema. At the top of the mast, have a plastic ball where it exits the sheave. Make a loop, pass the loop through the headboard, drop the ball through the loop, pull tight and hoist, job done. At the bottom, have 2 small clam cleats spaced about an inch apart below the halyard exit. Make sure you buy string double the length of the mast...schoolboy error otherwise!
I knew it was a plycraft becasue of the curved thwart, the lozenge shaped reinforcement pieces on the floor and a few other clues. At some point the 25 year old cascamite wood glue it's built with is going to start giving up. Over the winter, if I were you, I would get some west resin and filleting mix and run some supporting fillets all round the cockpit floor and around the central spine where the driver bounces up and down when hoisting the kite.
You will also find this page very useful....
http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/fireball/htm...articles_info.html
Enjoy your sailing!
OP, re your main hoisting issue, you need to keep the boom off the gooseneck, ensure kicker/cunno/outhaul are all free, hoist the sail, and then attach the boom to the gooseneck last. Get someone to hold the boom flat, and slightly above gooseneck height as you hoist. When its on, you should then be pulling the boom down onto the gooseneck. If you swap the halyard, use something like 3 or 4mm dyneema. At the top of the mast, have a plastic ball where it exits the sheave. Make a loop, pass the loop through the headboard, drop the ball through the loop, pull tight and hoist, job done. At the bottom, have 2 small clam cleats spaced about an inch apart below the halyard exit. Make sure you buy string double the length of the mast...schoolboy error otherwise!
I knew it was a plycraft becasue of the curved thwart, the lozenge shaped reinforcement pieces on the floor and a few other clues. At some point the 25 year old cascamite wood glue it's built with is going to start giving up. Over the winter, if I were you, I would get some west resin and filleting mix and run some supporting fillets all round the cockpit floor and around the central spine where the driver bounces up and down when hoisting the kite.
You will also find this page very useful....
http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/fireball/htm...articles_info.html
Enjoy your sailing!
dirkgently said:
Chimune said:
having at last got myself a fireball and had the mick taken at my local club (I'm now fleet captain - due to there being only one fireball there - mine), I actually got a chance to rig it yesterday. This confirmed that I think I have bought a sound boat with reasonable kit.
I have some questions though, and as there are no fellow fleet members to ask - I thought I'd try you lot.
1.does the mast step need to be fixed with a nut bolt either side?
2.the rudder setup looks a bit daft with a pin to keep it locked vertical. If I hit the dirt, I suspect the rudder will just split in half starting where the pin goes through it. Can't half raise it either. Is this normal?
3.I was expecting the main sheet to go up inside the boom, coming back down over the transom with two lines. Nope there are two single pullys hanging down halfway along the boom. I need to know how the sheet runs through these.
4.the the cunningham has a small wheel on it. So does the main. How do I link the two to flatten the sail?
5.I can't see where the main halliard cleats to. Do I need to pull the main up high enough for wire to pop out the mast, then fix this to the the downward facing teeth on the mast?
any thoughts are welcome !
1:yesI have some questions though, and as there are no fellow fleet members to ask - I thought I'd try you lot.
1.does the mast step need to be fixed with a nut bolt either side?
2.the rudder setup looks a bit daft with a pin to keep it locked vertical. If I hit the dirt, I suspect the rudder will just split in half starting where the pin goes through it. Can't half raise it either. Is this normal?
3.I was expecting the main sheet to go up inside the boom, coming back down over the transom with two lines. Nope there are two single pullys hanging down halfway along the boom. I need to know how the sheet runs through these.
4.the the cunningham has a small wheel on it. So does the main. How do I link the two to flatten the sail?
5.I can't see where the main halliard cleats to. Do I need to pull the main up high enough for wire to pop out the mast, then fix this to the the downward facing teeth on the mast?
any thoughts are welcome !
2:Quite normal as is losing a transom.(although you can set up a rope down- haul)
3:center main sheet once again normal on older balls.
4: many ways of doing it, mine comes back to the helmsman.
5:That's how its done.
ETA: welcome to the wonderful world of Fireballs.
Edited by dirkgently on Sunday 8th April 12:25
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff