HMS Queen Elizabeth

[ecsrobin]

Heads up BBC2 in 10 minutes “Britain’s biggest warship”

[tankplanker]

Saw her this weekend when we moored at Haslar Marina over the weekend, she is massive, I can't say I'd want to be in the harbour at the same time.

[Wozy68]

ecsrobin said:

Heads up BBC2 in 10 minutes “Britain’s biggest warship”

Just watched it on Iplayer ...... bloddy brilliant

[Lurking Lawyer]

I thought in modern parlance First Lieutenant was now consigned to the dustbin of history and the number two in the ship is now called the Executive Officer? I was (pleasantly) surprised to see that Jerry Kydd addressed him in the documentary as Number One and his hard hat had "1st Lt" on it. Is this peculiar to QE, and/or Jerry Kydd being idiosyncratically old school, or is Number One officially still known at the XO and it's just an informal moniker?

I also wondered whether the position will remain a Lt Commander appointment once it is out of dockyard and trials and becomes formally operational? I had assumed (but it may well just be ignorance/mistake on my part) that it would be a full Commander appointment.

[2xChevrons]

Lurking Lawyer said:

I thought in modern parlance First Lieutenant was now consigned to the dustbin of history and the number two in the ship is now called the Executive Officer? I was (pleasantly) surprised to see that Jerry Kydd addressed him in the documentary as Number One and his hard hat had "1st Lt" on it. Is this peculiar to QE, and/or Jerry Kydd being idiosyncratically old school, or is Number One officially still known at the XO and it's just an informal moniker?

I also wondered whether the position will remain a Lt Commander appointment once it is out of dockyard and trials and becomes formally operational? I had assumed (but it may well just be ignorance/mistake on my part) that it would be a full Commander appointment.

As far as I know (not being in the Navy- just grew up in Portsmouth and good friends with a lot of people who are!) the firm '1st Lieutenant' never went away. It's just that the Executive Officer and the 1st Lieutenant are not neccessarily the same person. Traditionally they were, because you'd have a (post) Captain as CO and then a number of Lts, the most senior of which would be second in command and 1st Lt. But now when you have a Capt as captain you might have a Cdr or Lt Cdr as XO. Of the Lts that make up the junior officers the most senior would be the First Lieutenant.

What I don't know is if, say you have a Cmdr as CO and a Lt Cdr as XO, and then a senior-most Lt, which (if any) gets called 'Number One'? Logically it would go with the most senior Lieutenant but you often see in films (I know, hardly a reliable source) the XO get called Number One by their CO. So does the term go with XO (as a hand-over from the time when they would also have been the 1st Lt?) or with the 1st Lt as logic would dictate?

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 17th April 15:38

[jkh112]

Watching episode 1 now and am really pleased to see some of the features I spent so much time working on. I hope they work well in service.

[donutsina911]

2xChevrons said:

As far as I know (not being in the Navy- just grew up in Portsmouth and good friends with a lot of people who are!) the firm '1st Lieutenant' never went away. It's just that the Executive Officer and the 1st Lieutenant are not neccessarily the same person. Traditionally they were, because you'd have a (post) Captain as CO and then a number of Lts, the most senior of which would be second in command and 1st Lt. But now when you have a Capt as captain you might have a Cdr or Lt Cdr as XO. Of the Lts that make up the junior officers the most senior would be the First Lieutenant.

What I don't know is if, say you have a Cmdr as CO and a Lt Cdr as XO, and then a senior-most Lt, which (if any) gets called 'Number One'? Logically it would go with the most senior Lieutenant but you often see in films (I know, hardly a reliable source) the XO get called Number One by their CO. So does the term go with XO (as a hand-over from the time when they would also have been the 1st Lt?) or with the 1st Lt as logic would dictate?

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 17th April 15:38

In answer to the question of a Commander (Cdr) as Commanding Officer of a ship, most frigates and destroyers have a Cdr as CO and a Lieutenant Commander as the second in command / executive officer / jimmy / first lieutenant / number 1, call them what you want.

The term first lieutenant only really appears to make logical sense on minor war vessels such as mine hunters and offshore patrol vessels when the xo will be the most senior officer of lieutenant rank, supporting a commanding officer who is of lieutenant commander rank. On smaller ships, such as the P2000 class, the XO will be a Chief Petty Officer, so not commissioned - even more confusing!

Making things more nonsensical, Bob Hawkins is a Lieutenant Commander and subordinate in rank to the ship’s heads of departments (ie Commander Air, Commander Weapons Engineering etc). Top bloke though, 40 years in the mob, clearance diver and no stranger to tv appearances...

[davebem]

jkh112 said:

Watching episode 1 now and am really pleased to see some of the features I spent so much time working on. I hope they work well in service.

I was really suprised to see them using old harriers for taxi and flight ops practise, the pilots must be so tempted to see if they will still fly.

[Wildcat45]

donutsina911 said:

In answer to the question of a Commander (Cdr) as Commanding Officer of a ship, most frigates and destroyers have a Cdr as CO and a Lieutenant Commander as the second in command / executive officer / jimmy / first lieutenant / number 1, call them what you want.

The term first lieutenant only really appears to make logical sense on minor war vessels such as mine hunters and offshore patrol vessels when the xo will be the most senior officer of lieutenant rank, supporting a commanding officer who is of lieutenant commander rank. On smaller ships, such as the P2000 class, the XO will be a Chief Petty Officer, so not commissioned - even more confusing!

Making things more nonsensical, Bob Hawkins is a Lieutenant Commander and subordinate in rank to the ship’s heads of departments (ie Commander Air, Commander Weapons Engineering etc). Top bloke though, 40 years in the mob, clearance diver and no stranger to tv appearances...

Only met him once, but Bob is a top bloke. He was in Brilliant and on telly when the guy who has made this documentary made a series about Brilliant during Op Hampden? Or whatever the Adriatic patrol was called.

Regards First Lieutenant. That confused me. My friend at the time a Commander, drove a 42. The XO who also went by the names of 1st Lieutenant and the "Jimmy" was a Lt
Commander.

My friend went on to become XO in ArkR. He was universally known as "The Commander" basically the guy who ran the ship day to day and who acted as Captain when the CO was doing off-ship stuff. One night in the wardroom I got drinking with a guy who described himself as the 1st Lieutenant. His role though not senior in rank appeared to be that of the most senior of the officers below commander level. He appeared to be the guy who dished out on the spot bkings for minor day to day stuff.

He'd been in the navy a long time. He'd I think been promoted from the ranks and therefore could fit in and talk anyone's language from a stoker to the CO.

I wonder if this role on a big ship is there to act as a kind of bridge across the ranks?

Anyone know?

Incidentally, Jerry is a very lucky lad. Who can say in the modern RN that they commanded 3 aircraft carriers - one the biggest ever to fly the white ensign.

Edited by Wildcat45 on Tuesday 17th April 21:46

[98elise]

donutsina911 said:

2xChevrons said:

As far as I know (not being in the Navy- just grew up in Portsmouth and good friends with a lot of people who are!) the firm '1st Lieutenant' never went away. It's just that the Executive Officer and the 1st Lieutenant are not neccessarily the same person. Traditionally they were, because you'd have a (post) Captain as CO and then a number of Lts, the most senior of which would be second in command and 1st Lt. But now when you have a Capt as captain you might have a Cdr or Lt Cdr as XO. Of the Lts that make up the junior officers the most senior would be the First Lieutenant.

What I don't know is if, say you have a Cmdr as CO and a Lt Cdr as XO, and then a senior-most Lt, which (if any) gets called 'Number One'? Logically it would go with the most senior Lieutenant but you often see in films (I know, hardly a reliable source) the XO get called Number One by their CO. So does the term go with XO (as a hand-over from the time when they would also have been the 1st Lt?) or with the 1st Lt as logic would dictate?

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 17th April 15:38

In answer to the question of a Commander (Cdr) as Commanding Officer of a ship, most frigates and destroyers have a Cdr as CO and a Lieutenant Commander as the second in command / executive officer / jimmy / first lieutenant / number 1, call them what you want.

The term first lieutenant only really appears to make logical sense on minor war vessels such as mine hunters and offshore patrol vessels when the xo will be the most senior officer of lieutenant rank, supporting a commanding officer who is of lieutenant commander rank. On smaller ships, such as the P2000 class, the XO will be a Chief Petty Officer, so not commissioned - even more confusing!

Making things more nonsensical, Bob Hawkins is a Lieutenant Commander and subordinate in rank to the ship’s heads of departments (ie Commander Air, Commander Weapons Engineering etc). Top bloke though, 40 years in the mob, clearance diver and no stranger to tv appearances...

Its not that confusing when you think of CO and XO as hierarchical or organisational roles, where the rank may vary depending on the size of ship.

Its no different to say how a retail company may have a store manager, but the seniority/pay grade of the large/flagship store may by higher of those running a small high street store.

I've not come across a subordinate XO before though. It does seem odd that the HOD's would outrank the XO.

[Speculatore]

My last carrier (Illustrious) where I was the Executive Warrant Officer our 'Captain' (Bob Cooling) was actually a Commodore who adopted the rank of a 4 stripe Captain to be the Commanding Officer. The Executive Officer was a Commander (David Healey) (One of 6 onboard) and the 1st Lt was a Lt Cdr (David Wright).

The Executive Department consisted of Captain, Commander (XO), 1st Lt, EWO, MAA, RPO, LReg, CPOPT and LPT

[NM62]

ecsrobin said:

Heads up BBC2 in 10 minutes “Britain’s biggest warship”

Thanks for the HU - Set it to record on Sky - Just got around to watching it - really enjoyed it - glad the naysayers will be silenced now.

Looking forward to seeing it fully operational with F-35B and the various choppers (haven't heard what type but am assuming Merlin and Wildcat).

Anyone know what are they going to use for Submarine and Electronics work (back in the day it was Gannet / Sea Kings with swivelling domes on the side)?

[Gargamel]

NM62 said:

Thanks for the HU - Set it to record on Sky - Just got around to watching it - really enjoyed it - glad the naysayers will be silenced now.

Looking forward to seeing it fully operational with F-35B and the various choppers (haven't heard what type but am assuming Merlin and Wildcat).

Anyone know what are they going to use for Submarine and Electronics work (back in the day it was Gannet / Sea Kings with swivelling domes on the side)?

One assumes another ship. Can't see QE going anywhere without the team.

[FourWheelDrift]

Looks like still being the Sea King Mk7 Airborne Surveillance and Control - https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/aircraf...

[PRTVR]

FourWheelDrift said:

Looks like still being the Sea King Mk7 Airborne Surveillance and Control - https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/aircraf...

Till they are taken out of service, then there will be a gap till Merlin's take over.
http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/crowsnest-the-stri...
Interesting on the program how few people were on the carrier compared to a US carrier.

[NM62]

PRTVR said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Looks like still being the Sea King Mk7 Airborne Surveillance and Control - https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/aircraf...

Till they are taken out of service, then there will be a gap till Merlin's take over.
http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/crowsnest-the-stri...
Interesting on the program how few people were on the carrier compared to a US carrier.

Thanks for the info.

I like the Merlin and hope it integrates well with F35's

I know our carriers will be slightly smaller than the US Navy's but I was surprised to hear the quoted 700 people as opposed to the 3500+ - really impressive.

Some of the IT type kit they were using looked good too (I have worked for a couple of the companies involved).

[ecsrobin]

Gargamel said:

NM62 said:

Thanks for the HU - Set it to record on Sky - Just got around to watching it - really enjoyed it - glad the naysayers will be silenced now.

Looking forward to seeing it fully operational with F-35B and the various choppers (haven't heard what type but am assuming Merlin and Wildcat).

Anyone know what are they going to use for Submarine and Electronics work (back in the day it was Gannet / Sea Kings with swivelling domes on the side)?

One assumes another ship. Can't see QE going anywhere without the team.

Kits due to be delivered end of this year to be fitted to 10 aircraft with in service date of 2019.

[Flying Phil]

I enjoyed seeing the first of the BBC2 documentaries - and seeing how the crew were bonding together was very rewarding. It is fascinating how they integrate the traditions of the past two centuries into the modern IT age. Well done to all aboard - and those onshore who built it/them.

[Kccv23highliftcam]

ecsrobin said:

Gargamel said:

NM62 said:

Thanks for the HU - Set it to record on Sky - Just got around to watching it - really enjoyed it - glad the naysayers will be silenced now.

Looking forward to seeing it fully operational with F-35B and the various choppers (haven't heard what type but am assuming Merlin and Wildcat).

Anyone know what are they going to use for Submarine and Electronics work (back in the day it was Gannet / Sea Kings with swivelling domes on the side)?

One assumes another ship. Can't see QE going anywhere without the team.

Kits due to be delivered end of this year to be fitted to 10 aircraft with in service date of 2019.

What is the service ceiling?

[Evanivitch]

Merlin Crowsnest kit will fly eye in the sky.

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/crowsnest-the-stri...


Future options may see a AESA based pod or even a V22 Osprey with kit but realistically neither are going to fit the budget.