Sir Ben & the Americas Cup
Discussion
Population of approx. 5million taking on the USA of 300million ?and then the AllBlacks taking on the Lions population of 70million.
Is there another Country which has such a wide spread of Sporting success with similar population Scotland ?
Anyhoo as a man who loves going on his modest yacht I find the sight of these beast "flying" across the water faster than many powerboats breath taking.
Is there another Country which has such a wide spread of Sporting success with similar population Scotland ?
Anyhoo as a man who loves going on his modest yacht I find the sight of these beast "flying" across the water faster than many powerboats breath taking.
Ayahuasca said:
Only 'problem' with NZ winning is that they have not agreed the future format of the events and so it could mean increased costs for BAR and the others if they have to design a whole new boat from scratch.
I think there will be a cost for any team to catch up with NZ at this time, so just the amount, but hope they maintain the "match racing" approach.johnxjsc1985 said:
Is there another Country which has such a wide spread of Sporting success with similar population Scotland ?
Being born and brought up in Edinburgh I would agree with this!Ecurie Ecosse (1956 and 1957 Le Mans Winners)
Jackie Stewart (three times F1 Drivers Champion)
Jim Clark (twice F1 Drivers Champion)
The Lisbon Lions (Celtic European Cup Winners 1967)
David Wilkie
Alan Wells
Kenny Dalgleish
Graham Souness
Sandy Lyle
Liz McColgan
Colin McRae
Louise Aitken-Walker
Dario Franchitti
David Coulthard
Steve Hislop
Paul di Resta
Graeme Obree
Robert Millar
David Millar
Chris Hoy
Kathryn Grainger
Stephen Hendry (is snooker a sport?)
Jocky Wilson (ditto darts!)
The Rugby Union Team (currently 5th in the IRB World Rankings)
Andy Murray
Jamie Murray
are just the world class performers off the top of my head, I bet there are plenty I have forgotten.
edited to add Ecurie Ecosse, Franchitti, Coulthard, di Resta and Hislop - this is Pistonheads after all!
Edited by gshughes on Tuesday 27th June 13:56
Edited by gshughes on Tuesday 27th June 13:59
Ayahuasca said:
Only 'problem' with NZ winning is that they have not agreed the future format of the events and so it could mean increased costs for BAR and the others if they have to design a whole new boat from scratch.
They didn't agree because Oracle tried to impose more BS into the mix and it's not their place to do so (arrogant thinking they would retain that right). If you want to trust any team, it's them. RobDickinson said:
Lots of talk here about monohulls and no foils
I can see why. The foiling boats are spectacular but the racing has been turned into a case of "putting your foot down and sending it" by them. There's no beat to the top mark, so no real chance to undo a poor start. Without spinnakers, there are no real whole crew boat handling tests round the corners. The legs are so short that it's very difficult to come back if you miss a shift, as you simply don't have time and the distances gained and lost over one. As shift or one back tack / gone are huge. In general, the pre-start was more a case of whoever got the hook in, won the start. This is very different in mono hills, as you get the chance to come away and attack the port tack. In the more breezy weather, there was no real engagement in the pre-start.
As a purist, I'd much rather watch close match racing in slower but evenly matched monohulls (most of the circuit is raced on monos), but I do see the mass market appeal of the foilers, as yacht racing is bloody dull to watch unless you know the rules inside out!!
schmalex said:
RobDickinson said:
Lots of talk here about monohulls and no foils
I can see why. The foiling boats are spectacular but the racing has been turned into a case of "putting your foot down and sending it" by them. There's no beat to the top mark, so no real chance to undo a poor start. Without spinnakers, there are no real whole crew boat handling tests round the corners. The legs are so short that it's very difficult to come back if you miss a shift, as you simply don't have time and the distances gained and lost over one. As shift or one back tack / gone are huge. In general, the pre-start was more a case of whoever got the hook in, won the start. This is very different in mono hills, as you get the chance to come away and attack the port tack. In the more breezy weather, there was no real engagement in the pre-start.
As a purist, I'd much rather watch close match racing in slower but evenly matched monohulls (most of the circuit is raced on monos), but I do see the mass market appeal of the foilers, as yacht racing is bloody dull to watch unless you know the rules inside out!!
Burwood said:
schmalex said:
RobDickinson said:
Lots of talk here about monohulls and no foils
I can see why. The foiling boats are spectacular but the racing has been turned into a case of "putting your foot down and sending it" by them. There's no beat to the top mark, so no real chance to undo a poor start. Without spinnakers, there are no real whole crew boat handling tests round the corners. The legs are so short that it's very difficult to come back if you miss a shift, as you simply don't have time and the distances gained and lost over one. As shift or one back tack / gone are huge. In general, the pre-start was more a case of whoever got the hook in, won the start. This is very different in mono hills, as you get the chance to come away and attack the port tack. In the more breezy weather, there was no real engagement in the pre-start.
As a purist, I'd much rather watch close match racing in slower but evenly matched monohulls (most of the circuit is raced on monos), but I do see the mass market appeal of the foilers, as yacht racing is bloody dull to watch unless you know the rules inside out!!
They want "stadium racing" as they call it, very close in shore in shallow water close to the crowd. Hard to achieve with mono hull draughts.
Viaduct Basin is a cracking place. I have rather drunken memories of staggering out of Cowboys whenever I've been there 
I can see the appeal of stadium racing. I just think it's a bit of a shame that most people will see the flat out drag races and think this is what match racing is about, rather than something like this---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFkQE4jASiA&fe... The foilers are a lot more spectacular, admittedly, but the monos allow for much more close quarter battling. Nothing sets the adrenaline going like a good close match race
I can see the appeal of stadium racing. I just think it's a bit of a shame that most people will see the flat out drag races and think this is what match racing is about, rather than something like this---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFkQE4jASiA&fe... The foilers are a lot more spectacular, admittedly, but the monos allow for much more close quarter battling. Nothing sets the adrenaline going like a good close match race
Edited by schmalex on Tuesday 27th June 21:12
Painthead said:
the framework agreement for 2019 & 2021 Cups already specifies the foiling cats.
That's the whole point though. Team NZ didn't sign the framework agreement and can configure the next event any way they want. That said, I agree it will probably be in foiling cats simply because they provide the "stadium racing" sponsors want. The inner harbour at Auckland would be a pretty good venue for that, even if the previous framework excluded it as a possible location (just one of the reasons TNZ didn't sign).
The cats will have to be quite different though, Auckland is a lot lumpier and more variable than Bermuda.
Personally, I'd love to see 12m yachts back, but that ain't happening
k
klootzak said:
Painthead said:
the framework agreement for 2019 & 2021 Cups already specifies the foiling cats.
That's the whole point though. Team NZ didn't sign the framework agreement and can configure the next event any way they want. That said, I agree it will probably be in foiling cats simply because they provide the "stadium racing" sponsors want. The inner harbour at Auckland would be a pretty good venue for that, even if the previous framework excluded it as a possible location (just one of the reasons TNZ didn't sign).
The cats will have to be quite different though, Auckland is a lot lumpier and more variable than Bermuda.
Personally, I'd love to see 12m yachts back, but that ain't happening
k
Sponsors and tv want the excitement of foiling and we were starting to see more "match racing" as they all sorted their stability and handling issues. That will only increase over time.
Agree it's not the golden era but you can pack these things into shipping and air freight containers - can't do that with the old J Class beauties like Endeavour or Ranger.
To be fair, ETNZ have been a race team since around 2003 and have evolved into a very succesful unit. BAR was only founded in, what, 2013.
BAR won the preceding regatta and, in breeze, had the same speed and height as ETNZ during the Louis Vuitton. It was only in the lighter breezes that BAR looked slow and low.
I'd say it was a pretty bloody good campaign (our last Americas Cup challenge was 1987 with DeSavery's Lionheart campaign ended pretty disastrously). Also, don't forget the BAR youth team won the Youth AC event this year.
I'd say, as a package, they did pretty well and Newey will take a lot of positives from his design. It just didn't seem to have quite the speed or height up the beats. We always used to say "Give me a boat that wins the first beat and we'll win you the regatta"; such is the importance of upwind speed and height
BAR won the preceding regatta and, in breeze, had the same speed and height as ETNZ during the Louis Vuitton. It was only in the lighter breezes that BAR looked slow and low.
I'd say it was a pretty bloody good campaign (our last Americas Cup challenge was 1987 with DeSavery's Lionheart campaign ended pretty disastrously). Also, don't forget the BAR youth team won the Youth AC event this year.
I'd say, as a package, they did pretty well and Newey will take a lot of positives from his design. It just didn't seem to have quite the speed or height up the beats. We always used to say "Give me a boat that wins the first beat and we'll win you the regatta"; such is the importance of upwind speed and height
schmalex said:
To be fair, ETNZ have been a race team since around 2003 and have evolved into a very succesful unit. BAR was only founded in, what, 2013.
BAR won the preceding regatta and, in breeze, had the same speed and height as ETNZ during the Louis Vuitton. It was only in the lighter breezes that BAR looked slow and low.
I'd say it was a pretty bloody good campaign (our last Americas Cup challenge was 1987 with DeSavery's Lionheart campaign ended pretty disastrously). Also, don't forget the BAR youth team won the Youth AC event this year.
I'd say, as a package, they did pretty well and Newey will take a lot of positives from his design. It just didn't seem to have quite the speed or height up the beats. We always used to say "Give me a boat that wins the first beat and we'll win you the regatta"; such is the importance of upwind speed and height
Good points. He is still a newbouy as well BAR won the preceding regatta and, in breeze, had the same speed and height as ETNZ during the Louis Vuitton. It was only in the lighter breezes that BAR looked slow and low.
I'd say it was a pretty bloody good campaign (our last Americas Cup challenge was 1987 with DeSavery's Lionheart campaign ended pretty disastrously). Also, don't forget the BAR youth team won the Youth AC event this year.
I'd say, as a package, they did pretty well and Newey will take a lot of positives from his design. It just didn't seem to have quite the speed or height up the beats. We always used to say "Give me a boat that wins the first beat and we'll win you the regatta"; such is the importance of upwind speed and height
Not sure quite they have 6 people on board. Given the high tech nature of the event they should be aiming for 1. Motor racing went from a driver and an engineer to just a driver a long time back.
Gandahar said:
Good points. He is still a newbouy as well
Not sure quite they have 6 people on board. Given the high tech nature of the event they should be aiming for 1. Motor racing went from a driver and an engineer to just a driver a long time back.
But racing cars have an engine, where do you think they get the power to control the foils , wings (sails) etc.Not sure quite they have 6 people on board. Given the high tech nature of the event they should be aiming for 1. Motor racing went from a driver and an engineer to just a driver a long time back.
In motor racing you still have the engineer giving advice and tactics through the radio, here the tactician is on board. 4 of the crew are grinders plus other tasks, they provide hydraulic power for the controls. In a tack, two cross over to other side, the remaining two increase their output temporarily until the other two come back on stream. Then they too cross over making various manual adjustments on the way as required. Yacht racing, no engines, no outside assistance, That's why they have more than 1.
Of course you can gave singlehander match racing, but it's in the likes of Lasers and Finns.
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