How to fix the Southern Rail dispute?

[Sump]

El stovey said:

Sump said:

gooner1 said:

Sump said:

The easiest solution is to start cutting the employees and heavily invest in automation / wizardry to replace them. There can't be progression if any time we advance someone on minimum wage strikes to hold it back.

Great idea, cut the number of employees, of which there isn't enough of to run the service now, unless
the staff do overtime.

This is why employees should have limited say in how a business should operate / invest.

There aren't enough employees to run a normal schedule. How does cutting the number help?

Heavily invest in making their jobs redundant.

[legzr1]

loafer123 said:

There will still be a second staff member on the train, they just won't be responsible for opertating the doors.

Will this second member be safety-critical trained?

If not, just as much use in an emergency as a member of the public.

[legzr1]

Sump said:

Heavily invest in making their jobs redundant.

Ho, ho,ho.

Another 'automation is the answer' jockey.

Come on then, give us the details, timeline, budget etc.

[gooner1]

legzr1 said:

Ho, ho,ho.

Another 'automation is the answer' jockey.

Come on then, give us the details, timeline, budget etc.

.

He's a jockey right enough, but not of the automation variety.

[craigjm]

The government need to be clearer when they let a franchise what that actually means. To run a businsss so critical on say 75% staff to reduce costs and allow overtime is nonsense. Staff, certainly the drivers, get paid quite well and it is archaic to run a business on overtime unless the flow of work is uncertain which it clearly is not here.

We need to take an honest hard look at employment law which over the past few years has swung far to far in favour of the employee. Maybe it is time to legislate to protect core services in such a way as not allowing them to strike, like the police, but that would then have to include some robust mechanisms for dealing with issues and pay progression etc.

[legzr1]

Robertj21a said:

The railways need to modernise but, on Southern, the (strong) unions think that safety will be compromised if the safety-critical role of the guard is replaced with an 'On Board Supervisor'. What they have failed to properly explain is how 'Thameslink' have operated the same type of train, on the same lines, without a guard for many years !

Good thread on the rail forum discussing this where a few obviously anti-union types are having their arses handed to them again .

Interesting that Chiltern and Scotrail have come to cost-effective and amicable resolutions recently without all this Southern nonsense - perhaps it's just coincidence that neither of them had Grayling deceiving and interfering...

[The Mad Monk]

valiant said:

No drivers but there is a passenger service agent aboard every dlr train and as we found out a year or two back, if they go on strike there is no dlr.

What about The Waterloo & City Line?

[craigjm]

They need to put the pressure back on to southern to sort it. The way the franchise is run at the moment is unique from all the others and leaves the government shouldering losses

[loafer123]

legzr1 said:

loafer123 said:

There will still be a second staff member on the train, they just won't be responsible for opertating the doors.

Will this second member be safety-critical trained?

If not, just as much use in an emergency as a member of the public.

Really? The second member of staff would be as useful in an emergency as my sister?

Perhaps the union could agree the training that these Customer Service Agents should have, then?

[Cotty]

The Mad Monk said:

valiant said:

No drivers but there is a passenger service agent aboard every dlr train and as we found out a year or two back, if they go on strike there is no dlr.

What about The Waterloo & City Line?

But the drain is only one stop. 1.47 miles

[Cotty]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

On my line its is the platform staff that signal that the doors are clear, they don't have a guard. Can't they just move the guards from the trains to the platform? that way they are still performing the same safety role

[valiant]

Cotty said:

The Mad Monk said:

valiant said:

No drivers but there is a passenger service agent aboard every dlr train and as we found out a year or two back, if they go on strike there is no dlr.

What about The Waterloo & City Line?

But the drain is only one stop. 1.47 miles

W&C has a driver and is manually driven. They are converted 92 stock (have tripcocks fitted) and are manned by Central line drivers out of Leytonstone depot (W&C does not have their own dedicated drivers or crew depot)

[Dogwatch]

legzr1 said:

Interesting that Chiltern and Scotrail have come to cost-effective and amicable resolutions recently without all this Southern nonsense - perhaps it's just coincidence that neither of them had Grayling deceiving and interfering...

Don't know about Chiltern but apparently the Scotrail agreement is that now the driver opens the doors and the guard closes them! Hardly a giant leap into the 21st century.

New stock was built as DOO but has had to have guards stations retrofitted at a cost of £5m - to the taxpayer. Cost effective? Hmmm.

[Stedman]

DOO is not suitable to mainline work IMO. It is 'ok' but not ideal in metro areas.

Lots of ignorant bks sprouted here, but lots of proper information 'out there'.

Government wont, or have been refusing up until now, to meet.

[Uncle John]

Massive thread already on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[gooner1]

Uncle John said:

Massive thread already on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thanks for that.

[The Mad Monk]

Stedman said:

Lots of ignorant bks sprouted here, but lots of proper information 'out there'.

Government wont, or have been refusing up until now, to meet.

Well, it's a jolly good job that you are there to give us an objective, impartial and balanced view, isn't it?

[Robertj21a]

Stedman said:

DOO is not suitable to mainline work IMO. It is 'ok' but not ideal in metro areas.

Lots of ignorant bks sprouted here, but lots of proper information 'out there'.

Government wont, or have been refusing up until now, to meet.

But all of the London Overground network has been DOO for years. Thameslink's 12-coach trains use the same track and stations as Southern - and have also been DOO for years.

[Steve_W]

Found this article interesting - written by a commuter:

https://medium.com/@xciv/southern-rail-transport-s...

[legzr1]

Robertj21a said:

But all of the London Overground network has been DOO for years. Thameslink's 12-coach trains use the same track and stations as Southern - and have also been DOO for years.

Perhaps it's time to get rid of DOO altogether then?