First boat suggestions
Discussion
I've mentioned before in a couple of other threads my desire to get a boat or van and disappear off and do some exploring. I've had a rough year or so combined with some mental health issues and think I need a bit of time to get myself together.
I have done a bit of sailing before, but not enough to single crew yet so am looking at joining a local sailing club and working my way through some of the RYA courses, competent crew, day skipper etc over the next 12-18 months as well as hopefully going out with other boat owners.
In relation to boats, I'm hoping to buy a boat and live on-board for a while at a local marina and maybe take it out with new found friends from a sailing club. I know very much that boats can be debilitatingly expensive in terms of maintenance etc, so I'm doing as much research as possible before I even go and look at any. My budget will not be huge, maybe £7-10k. I've been thinking that a Contessa 26 (would love a 32) would fall into that bracket, and whilst not a large boat, it's one with a proven history that's capable of being sailed single handed by a competent sailor. There seem to be a few on the market at any one time, and subject to a survey I think one would tick all the boxes.
However....reading a few online pieces and a few books (reading Joshua Slocum's book at the moment) is in no way as helpful as real world advice. Does anyone here have views on the Contessa 26 and/or can they suggest other alternatives for a first sailboat that one could live on? I should mention I'm very much decluttering my life so the relative lack of space on a 26ft boat shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks in advance, and if you have any anecdotes about your first boats and sailing experiences I'd love to hear them.
I have done a bit of sailing before, but not enough to single crew yet so am looking at joining a local sailing club and working my way through some of the RYA courses, competent crew, day skipper etc over the next 12-18 months as well as hopefully going out with other boat owners.
In relation to boats, I'm hoping to buy a boat and live on-board for a while at a local marina and maybe take it out with new found friends from a sailing club. I know very much that boats can be debilitatingly expensive in terms of maintenance etc, so I'm doing as much research as possible before I even go and look at any. My budget will not be huge, maybe £7-10k. I've been thinking that a Contessa 26 (would love a 32) would fall into that bracket, and whilst not a large boat, it's one with a proven history that's capable of being sailed single handed by a competent sailor. There seem to be a few on the market at any one time, and subject to a survey I think one would tick all the boxes.
However....reading a few online pieces and a few books (reading Joshua Slocum's book at the moment) is in no way as helpful as real world advice. Does anyone here have views on the Contessa 26 and/or can they suggest other alternatives for a first sailboat that one could live on? I should mention I'm very much decluttering my life so the relative lack of space on a 26ft boat shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks in advance, and if you have any anecdotes about your first boats and sailing experiences I'd love to hear them.
I'll prefix this by saying although I have done a bit of sailing I am far from competent, however I do have a very close friend who is live aboard on a Cobra 850, which has a pretty good amount of room for it's length. As an extension to that thought I would look at yachts that a popular for charters in the med and places as they tend to be geared for accommodation.
His Cobra is an ex charter yacht and he has found it excellent, both from a living and a sailing POV. It was at the lower end of your budget AFAIK and he sails it solo often. It was also ready to go.
His Cobra is an ex charter yacht and he has found it excellent, both from a living and a sailing POV. It was at the lower end of your budget AFAIK and he sails it solo often. It was also ready to go.
It is cheaper to buy the best boat you can afford, than to buy a cheap boat and hope to 'do her up'.
Some marinas do not allow you to live aboard.
There is a good film called 'Hide Away' about a bloke who buys a boat to get his life back together. It is a bit whimsical, but I like it. He does buy a cheap boat, and lives in a marina, so breaks both my first points.
Some marinas do not allow you to live aboard.
There is a good film called 'Hide Away' about a bloke who buys a boat to get his life back together. It is a bit whimsical, but I like it. He does buy a cheap boat, and lives in a marina, so breaks both my first points.
Sabre 27? Not as fast as a Co26 but much more room, drier, and probably far more suitable as a liveaboard. A lot more boat for your money, and well within budget too. Seaworthy with plenty of documented long passages, and a choice of fin or bilge keels depending on your intended use.
db said:
Hard-Drive said:
...and a choice of fin or bilge keels depending on your intended use.
For those of us at the start of our dream/plan, what's the difference between the two?Not the physical difference, but practical day-to-day difference?
Fin keel means much better sailing performance to windward especially. However you can only dry out upright in soft mud, and to scrub off you'll either need to get hauled out or dry out alongside a wall or scrubbing piles. If you do go aground, you have more chance of getting off as heeling the boat (using the sails or crew dangling off the boom) as you will reduce the draught and hopefully float free.
My preference is fin...I have a Sabre 27 myself and the performance upwind is much better. Although the Sabre is a ploddy cruiser, I also race high performance dinghies (49er and Fireball) and I'm of the school of thought that a boat like a Sabre needs all the help it can in terms of speed and bilge keels won't help. My sailing tends to be weekends in the Solent with a longer trip away plus the odd club race and the Round the Island, so fin works well for me. Ken Endean, regular contributor to Yachting Monthly, has cruised extensively in his bilge keeled Sabre, and will often spend a month exploring all over the Scillies, so the ability to dry out makes bilge the logical choice.
Some of the more modern bilge keelers such as the RM range have the best of both worlds....they will still dry out but have much more modern high-aspect foils and have good performance upwind anyway.
Westerly Griffon may be worth looking at. When I was in my teens we did many a 6 week holiday on board as a family of 4, easy enough to sail and can be easily rigged for single handed.
We recently sold our Westerly Fulmar which was a great boat at 32ft but it would have been out of your budget.
I am sure you are aware but with boats of this age look very carefully at the gel coat and have a survey done as osmosis is expensive (cost us £10k last year on the fulmar). Many boats also have bolt on keels, try and inspect the bolts, keels have been known to fall off.
Griffon
We recently sold our Westerly Fulmar which was a great boat at 32ft but it would have been out of your budget.
I am sure you are aware but with boats of this age look very carefully at the gel coat and have a survey done as osmosis is expensive (cost us £10k last year on the fulmar). Many boats also have bolt on keels, try and inspect the bolts, keels have been known to fall off.
Griffon
Maybe worth having a read of this:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm
It's easy to buy a dud second hand car but at least they all leave the factory to a certain mandated standard so a bit of info from that site may help you avoid some horrors.
I'm not sure if it's easier living in a van or a boat, but vans have less fundamental issues as you can move them and they don't sink, but living in a van is not as socially acceptable as living in a boat - so in general I suspect the living in a boat lifestyle is better despite the lack of van practicality.
I did try living in a boat once in Chiswick Marina, a nice friendly place but the mud appeared most of the day and the boat was cheap and roomy enough - but old and musty and I hated it, should have bought a less practical but newer and trendier model.
I couple of friends of mine sold their house and now live on a nice big boat, one of the keys to happiness is a good marina with free wifi, you'll also need a postal address somewhere and it has laundry, showers etc so you can enjoy mains water, drainage and the National Grid on a regular basis.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm
It's easy to buy a dud second hand car but at least they all leave the factory to a certain mandated standard so a bit of info from that site may help you avoid some horrors.
I'm not sure if it's easier living in a van or a boat, but vans have less fundamental issues as you can move them and they don't sink, but living in a van is not as socially acceptable as living in a boat - so in general I suspect the living in a boat lifestyle is better despite the lack of van practicality.
I did try living in a boat once in Chiswick Marina, a nice friendly place but the mud appeared most of the day and the boat was cheap and roomy enough - but old and musty and I hated it, should have bought a less practical but newer and trendier model.
I couple of friends of mine sold their house and now live on a nice big boat, one of the keys to happiness is a good marina with free wifi, you'll also need a postal address somewhere and it has laundry, showers etc so you can enjoy mains water, drainage and the National Grid on a regular basis.
Personally, as a first boat, I'd start with something old, solid & bilge keels.
Bilge Keels mean the impact of making a minor navigational error is small. It dries out upright.
It's also cheaper to berth - because you can pop it on drying moorings.
Oldish & Solid - because they used to build them out of solid glass. Modern boats have balsa cores which can get damp, rot and basically make your life hell repairing them.
26-30' is a decent size to start with. Smaller than this is too small to be comfortable with, bigger than that and maneouvering in close quarters (marinas etc) takes a bit more skill and costs a lot more if you balls it up.
Just IMVHO, of course.
Bilge Keels mean the impact of making a minor navigational error is small. It dries out upright.
It's also cheaper to berth - because you can pop it on drying moorings.
Oldish & Solid - because they used to build them out of solid glass. Modern boats have balsa cores which can get damp, rot and basically make your life hell repairing them.
26-30' is a decent size to start with. Smaller than this is too small to be comfortable with, bigger than that and maneouvering in close quarters (marinas etc) takes a bit more skill and costs a lot more if you balls it up.
Just IMVHO, of course.
Hard-Drive said:
Bilge (twin keels) mean the boat can dry out upright, ideal if you want a cheap half tide mooring or want to explore places where you can just dry out at low tide and go for a walk. Also means you can scrub off anywhere saving money on yard fees. If you go aground hard accidentally and can't get off, there's not a huge amount you can do apart from put the kettle on. However pointing, boatspeed and leeway are all compromised. That said bilge keelers usually draw less too, so you can get to places that you can't in a fin.
Fin keel means much better sailing performance to windward especially. However you can only dry out upright in soft mud, and to scrub off you'll either need to get hauled out or dry out alongside a wall or scrubbing piles. If you do go aground, you have more chance of getting off as heeling the boat (using the sails or crew dangling off the boom) as you will reduce the draught and hopefully float free.
My preference is fin...I have a Sabre 27 myself and the performance upwind is much better. Although the Sabre is a ploddy cruiser, I also race high performance dinghies (49er and Fireball) and I'm of the school of thought that a boat like a Sabre needs all the help it can in terms of speed and bilge keels won't help. My sailing tends to be weekends in the Solent with a longer trip away plus the odd club race and the Round the Island, so fin works well for me. Ken Endean, regular contributor to Yachting Monthly, has cruised extensively in his bilge keeled Sabre, and will often spend a month exploring all over the Scillies, so the ability to dry out makes bilge the logical choice.
Some of the more modern bilge keelers such as the RM range have the best of both worlds....they will still dry out but have much more modern high-aspect foils and have good performance upwind anyway.
Thank you, that makes sense.Fin keel means much better sailing performance to windward especially. However you can only dry out upright in soft mud, and to scrub off you'll either need to get hauled out or dry out alongside a wall or scrubbing piles. If you do go aground, you have more chance of getting off as heeling the boat (using the sails or crew dangling off the boom) as you will reduce the draught and hopefully float free.
My preference is fin...I have a Sabre 27 myself and the performance upwind is much better. Although the Sabre is a ploddy cruiser, I also race high performance dinghies (49er and Fireball) and I'm of the school of thought that a boat like a Sabre needs all the help it can in terms of speed and bilge keels won't help. My sailing tends to be weekends in the Solent with a longer trip away plus the odd club race and the Round the Island, so fin works well for me. Ken Endean, regular contributor to Yachting Monthly, has cruised extensively in his bilge keeled Sabre, and will often spend a month exploring all over the Scillies, so the ability to dry out makes bilge the logical choice.
Some of the more modern bilge keelers such as the RM range have the best of both worlds....they will still dry out but have much more modern high-aspect foils and have good performance upwind anyway.
How often, generally speaking, do boats need scrubbed off? Obviously there's a loss of speed the longer it's left, any other drawbacks to leaving it longer between scrubs?
I do agree fin keel boats are better sailors and for offshore sailing they are a no-brainer.
But this your first boat - I can't recommend enough going for something robust & forgiving until you've got quite a few miles under your belt. For example, you'll likely run aground on a falling tide a few times or find the withies in smaller harbours aren't so accurate - you don't want to do that on a fin keel, it really ruins your day. It also limits places you can visit.
Christchurch harbour - perfect example. Lovely place to visit and stay overnight, but I wouldn't recommend you take a fin keeler in there unless you have been there a few times already and know your way around.
But this your first boat - I can't recommend enough going for something robust & forgiving until you've got quite a few miles under your belt. For example, you'll likely run aground on a falling tide a few times or find the withies in smaller harbours aren't so accurate - you don't want to do that on a fin keel, it really ruins your day. It also limits places you can visit.
Christchurch harbour - perfect example. Lovely place to visit and stay overnight, but I wouldn't recommend you take a fin keeler in there unless you have been there a few times already and know your way around.
db said:
Thank you, that makes sense.
How often, generally speaking, do boats need scrubbed off? Obviously there's a loss of speed the longer it's left, any other drawbacks to leaving it longer between scrubs?
It's purely down to sailing performance really. Weed on your hull will absolutely kill performance. And even a few barnacles on your prop will seriously impair it's efficiency. If you are just living aboard and not moving, it hardly matters. Conversely, if you are moving and sailing a lot, the weed and critters tend not to stick to your boat so much. If you are in a tidal mud berth, the same is true rather than a boat which is constantly afloat. The amount of fouling will depend on where you keep the boat, and the quality of your antifouling. I tend to scrub off properly once or twice a year, and perhaps a swim around with a scrubber in a quiet anchorage in the summer.How often, generally speaking, do boats need scrubbed off? Obviously there's a loss of speed the longer it's left, any other drawbacks to leaving it longer between scrubs?
Arnold Cunningham said:
I do agree fin keel boats are better sailors and for offshore sailing they are a no-brainer.
But this your first boat - I can't recommend enough going for something robust & forgiving until you've got quite a few miles under your belt. For example, you'll likely run aground on a falling tide a few times or find the withies in smaller harbours aren't so accurate - you don't want to do that on a fin keel, it really ruins your day. It also limits places you can visit.
Christchurch harbour - perfect example. Lovely place to visit and stay overnight, but I wouldn't recommend you take a fin keeler in there unless you have been there a few times already and know your way around.
Whilst I partly agree, if you can't navigate Chi harbour fairly safely you probably need to be brushing up on your pilotage skills rather than worrying about your keels. Running aground in a bilge keeler can also be a nightmare...either way you have an unscheduled 12 hour stop regardless! But certainly agree on something robust and forgiving. And don't learn to sail in a yacht, learn in a dinghy.But this your first boat - I can't recommend enough going for something robust & forgiving until you've got quite a few miles under your belt. For example, you'll likely run aground on a falling tide a few times or find the withies in smaller harbours aren't so accurate - you don't want to do that on a fin keel, it really ruins your day. It also limits places you can visit.
Christchurch harbour - perfect example. Lovely place to visit and stay overnight, but I wouldn't recommend you take a fin keeler in there unless you have been there a few times already and know your way around.
blueg33 said:
Been thinking about this thread, and concluded that I would need a much bigger boat than a 30-40 footer to actually live on and have any quality of life. Nothing worse than a damp, cramped smelly floating caravan IMO
This. Whilst we have done four adults for a fortnight on my 27 footer, it is cramped, even on your own. Bear in mind that on most boats of that size in your budget, you'll have one tap, one sink, and the kettle is your only means of hot water. Storage space will be limited, and you will be fighting a constant battle against mould and damp. It will be freezing in the winter, and whilst you can start fitting things like calorifiers for hot water and diesel heaters for warmth, they will all start taking up valuable stowage/locker space.Did many years racing on a Co32, and they really are great boats, but they are pretty small below... I couldn't stand upright, and all the berths were boarderline for me to sleep in with any comfort - I would expect a 26 to be pushing it.
After a few years on a Dufour 36, we're now on a Beneteau 45, and that's plenty big enough for 6 blokes to do several days off shore on.
After a few years on a Dufour 36, we're now on a Beneteau 45, and that's plenty big enough for 6 blokes to do several days off shore on.
I agree with your point re navigation - but I'm particularly mindful the the OP said he's not yet skilled enough that he'd be happy to single crew a boat.
And I chose Christchurch (not Chichester
) as an example because it's a nice place to stay overnight, but the sandbanks move a lot, therefore even in the channel, it's easy to get caught out sometimes. Personally, I'd happily take any boat anywhere as sounds like you would too, but IMVHO, the most important thing on the learning curve of anything to do with the sea is to not find yourself in an unplanned situation without adequate "Plan B's"
And I chose Christchurch (not Chichester
) as an example because it's a nice place to stay overnight, but the sandbanks move a lot, therefore even in the channel, it's easy to get caught out sometimes. Personally, I'd happily take any boat anywhere as sounds like you would too, but IMVHO, the most important thing on the learning curve of anything to do with the sea is to not find yourself in an unplanned situation without adequate "Plan B's"Hard-Drive said:
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Hard-Drive said:
And don't learn to sail in a yacht, learn in a dinghy.
This is great advice. I did the first 10-15 years of my sailing in 30 - 40 ft yachts (cruising and as racing crew) and I thought I knew how to sail. Then I tried to sail a dinghy and realised that all I actually knew was water-caravanning, nav / pilotage, manouvering under engine etc etc. The actual sailing bit I was clueless at!Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff