Engine Flush. Good or Bad
Discussion
My recently purchased Cerbera has been sat idol for 2 years. I was going to change the oil and filter on it but then someone said "make sure you give it an engine flush", So I was about to do it when I was told by a friend that and engine flush was the cause of the damage on his RS Escort a good while ago as it stripped the coating off the crank!!!.
So as unlikely as that sounds, what is the opinion of you guys. Flush or no Flush.
So as unlikely as that sounds, what is the opinion of you guys. Flush or no Flush.
It depends how bad and how gunged up it is inside.
If it is quite black inside with crusty bits IME an oil change and even 3 does almost nothing to shift the crud ; I've had it going black straight away in a petrol engine, like it would in a diesel. In this case I'd be tempted to flush it out. You have nothing to lose if the engine is that bad inside.
If it has simply been stood and not started up that often over time with the engine look OK inside the filler cap I'd then just do a normal oil and filter change.
If it is quite black inside with crusty bits IME an oil change and even 3 does almost nothing to shift the crud ; I've had it going black straight away in a petrol engine, like it would in a diesel. In this case I'd be tempted to flush it out. You have nothing to lose if the engine is that bad inside.
If it has simply been stood and not started up that often over time with the engine look OK inside the filler cap I'd then just do a normal oil and filter change.
I never ever change oil without an additive type flushing agent. I have been using it on my own and on customers' cars for over 25 years. I have never once seen any detrimental effect but there are plenty of positives such as the speed of draining for a start. It won't get all the black gunge out in one go, but over successive oil changes you can definitely see the difference.
I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
Hi Sandy,
I have bought a Cerbera AJPV8 4.5. I tried my best not too but it wasn't enough, It is in my garage up on axle stands awaiting new tyres, brake discs and pads. Calipers refurbished and painted and oil and filter change. The cats need put back on and then an MOT.
It will probably be September before that happens as work and family holidays will get in the way but looking forward to getting behind the wheel of a Cerb again.
I tried to loosen the sump plug tonight but it would not budge, I need to get the car up higher but I managed to brake my small ratchet trying to get the nut of so I have soaked it and will revisit it tomorrow.
I think I will put an engine flush through it when I get the nut off. Thanks for the replies guys.
I have bought a Cerbera AJPV8 4.5. I tried my best not too but it wasn't enough, It is in my garage up on axle stands awaiting new tyres, brake discs and pads. Calipers refurbished and painted and oil and filter change. The cats need put back on and then an MOT.
It will probably be September before that happens as work and family holidays will get in the way but looking forward to getting behind the wheel of a Cerb again.
I tried to loosen the sump plug tonight but it would not budge, I need to get the car up higher but I managed to brake my small ratchet trying to get the nut of so I have soaked it and will revisit it tomorrow.
I think I will put an engine flush through it when I get the nut off. Thanks for the replies guys.
phillpot said:
TwinKam said:
I never ever change oil without an additive type flushing agent.
So is this an additive you put in with the dirty oil, run a bit then drain the lot?What do you recommend?
I'm currently using 'Wynns Engine Flush', about a fiver a can (retail).
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I was in a similar quandary. I've got a bottle of engine flush sat on the shelf in the garage, and wondering whether i should use it.
As I'm doing the valve clearances at the moment, then the pockets of oil that keep the cam followers lubricated have been drained and cleaned out.
However, if I run the engine flush around the engine, then I'm assuming I'll have those pockets filled with a mix of oil and flush agent for quite some time, before the fresh oil dilutes that mixture out. Their main means of draining is via overflows.
I suspect I'm being a bit paranoid, but given the insides of the camshaft and timing areas seemed relatively clean for a 60k engine I suspect I'm just going to stick to the regular oil changes and leave the flush oil on the shelf.
I'll maybe chuck the flush into the Saab as it's maybe more useful for keeping the pipework to the turbo clean.
Brian
As I'm doing the valve clearances at the moment, then the pockets of oil that keep the cam followers lubricated have been drained and cleaned out.
However, if I run the engine flush around the engine, then I'm assuming I'll have those pockets filled with a mix of oil and flush agent for quite some time, before the fresh oil dilutes that mixture out. Their main means of draining is via overflows.
I suspect I'm being a bit paranoid, but given the insides of the camshaft and timing areas seemed relatively clean for a 60k engine I suspect I'm just going to stick to the regular oil changes and leave the flush oil on the shelf.
I'll maybe chuck the flush into the Saab as it's maybe more useful for keeping the pipework to the turbo clean.
Brian
TwinKam said:
I never ever change oil without an additive type flushing agent. I have been using it on my own and on customers' cars for over 25 years. I have never once seen any detrimental effect but there are plenty of positives such as the speed of draining for a start. It won't get all the black gunge out in one go, but over successive oil changes you can definitely see the difference.
I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
The issues is that the "cleaning" does indeed clean, but can also deposit crap into the sump which then is trapped by the pickup pipe.I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
Only recommended in my opinion if you then change the pickup pipe afterwards.
xjay1337 said:
TwinKam said:
I never ever change oil without an additive type flushing agent. I have been using it on my own and on customers' cars for over 25 years. I have never once seen any detrimental effect but there are plenty of positives such as the speed of draining for a start. It won't get all the black gunge out in one go, but over successive oil changes you can definitely see the difference.
I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
The issues is that the "cleaning" does indeed clean, but can also deposit crap into the sump which then is trapped by the pickup pipe.I believe the phrase is 'Don't put clean oil into a dirty engine'
Only recommended in my opinion if you then change the pickup pipe afterwards.
The fact remains that I have probably done in excess of 12,500* oil changes using an additive type flush and have only good things to report. Cleaner engines, faster draining, absolutely no fails.
- That's a simple calc based on 2 per day over 25 years
I'm not denying that you may have done many of them.
But I argue 2 points, one being that it can deposit gunk in places it's not supposed to be, and two, what is honestly the point?
There is only so much cleaning a dilute amount of fluid in an engine can do. 500ML of acid in 5000ML of oil won't do much. It may remove some deposits but it cannot fully melt / dissolve these into a liquid and you will end up with some chunks which are floating around. In the same way that if you put too much sugar into a small volume of water there comes a point where the sugar cannot dissolve anymore.
Secondly, in my own experience, assuming your car is fairly well serviced there is no need for these types of treatments.
My car is a dirty diesel, heavily tuned, and abused. The original, stock cylinder head was removed at 180k to fit a ported and flowed head.
There was no build up at all in the head. At all. No gunky deposits.
So in my opinion these cleaning agents are simply an UPSELL product to garages, usually small / independent garages. As it's very, very rare that these types of products are used in a main dealer environment.
But I argue 2 points, one being that it can deposit gunk in places it's not supposed to be, and two, what is honestly the point?
There is only so much cleaning a dilute amount of fluid in an engine can do. 500ML of acid in 5000ML of oil won't do much. It may remove some deposits but it cannot fully melt / dissolve these into a liquid and you will end up with some chunks which are floating around. In the same way that if you put too much sugar into a small volume of water there comes a point where the sugar cannot dissolve anymore.
Secondly, in my own experience, assuming your car is fairly well serviced there is no need for these types of treatments.
My car is a dirty diesel, heavily tuned, and abused. The original, stock cylinder head was removed at 180k to fit a ported and flowed head.
There was no build up at all in the head. At all. No gunky deposits.
So in my opinion these cleaning agents are simply an UPSELL product to garages, usually small / independent garages. As it's very, very rare that these types of products are used in a main dealer environment.
I have no wish to enter into any argument. I am 100% convinced of its merits over many many years and I will continue its use.
Main dealers have and do push it, I have seen display cans on their service desks when visiting parts depts, 'Forte' is the most popular brand and they charge IRO £10 for it... now that IS an upsell!
On occasions that I have had to partially strip engines (eg renew head gasket, renew corroded sump pan) that I have 'flushed' when serviced over a few years, I have found all internals clean... when I have past service notes informing the customer that the area inside the oil filler was 'gungy'.
It does not claim to dissolve carbon (which is a huge but different issue affecting the inlet tracts especially on those filthy derv burners and which is dealt with in a different way).
What it does dissolve is the black greasy 'tar' that coats the engine internals, holding it in suspension so that it gets drained out. It doesn't work miracles, it can take years to undo years of abuse (neglected oil changes etc). On an engine that has had regular and frequent oil changes it may not be (so) necessary, but I do use it on all my cars and bikes even though none go past a year/5,000 miles between changes; those 'extended' service intervals have a lot to answer for.
The best analogy I can give is probably spray-on bath cleaner... or mouthwash... there's no scrubbing involved, it just dissolves the outermost surface of 'dirt', if it's a thick layer then it may take many goes, it's not getting under the bottom 'layer' and breaking it all off in one go!
That's probably why I see the results, because I use it every time.
Main dealers have and do push it, I have seen display cans on their service desks when visiting parts depts, 'Forte' is the most popular brand and they charge IRO £10 for it... now that IS an upsell!
On occasions that I have had to partially strip engines (eg renew head gasket, renew corroded sump pan) that I have 'flushed' when serviced over a few years, I have found all internals clean... when I have past service notes informing the customer that the area inside the oil filler was 'gungy'.
It does not claim to dissolve carbon (which is a huge but different issue affecting the inlet tracts especially on those filthy derv burners and which is dealt with in a different way).
What it does dissolve is the black greasy 'tar' that coats the engine internals, holding it in suspension so that it gets drained out. It doesn't work miracles, it can take years to undo years of abuse (neglected oil changes etc). On an engine that has had regular and frequent oil changes it may not be (so) necessary, but I do use it on all my cars and bikes even though none go past a year/5,000 miles between changes; those 'extended' service intervals have a lot to answer for.
The best analogy I can give is probably spray-on bath cleaner... or mouthwash... there's no scrubbing involved, it just dissolves the outermost surface of 'dirt', if it's a thick layer then it may take many goes, it's not getting under the bottom 'layer' and breaking it all off in one go!
That's probably why I see the results, because I use it every time.
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