New Cirrus Jet
Discussion
They're bloody slow and get in the way. In fairness this one apparently has a ceiling of FL280 so isn't trying to cruise at big boy levels unlike other small jets such as the Citation Mustang but it's still much much slower than most private jets and airliners which can be a nuisance.
Wobbegong said:
Personally I'd probably just fly the full GODLU1F arrival and take the extra fuel burn and few minutes flying on the chin rather than drop out of CAS anywhere near Shoreham and the white cliffs which is a minefield on a nice day.DrDeAtH said:
What is with the Americans and the twin tail on their aircraft? (Not just this aircraft)
Its not a 'Twin tail', it's a 'V tail' or 'Butterfly tail'.The advantages of this set up are that you effectively have 2 control surfaces (wings + ruddervators) as opposed to 3 (wings, fin, tailplane), thus you have less structural weight. More important is the reduced surface area leading to less Induced and Parasite Drag (although NASA studies question this since a V tailed a/c tends to require a larger tail than does a conventionally tailed a/c). Additionally the reduction of intersection surfaces from 3 to 2 produces a net reduction in drag through elimination of interference drag.
Also in the case of the Cirrus, having a V tail means that the tail surfaces are clear of the jet efflux.
The disadvantages are that when yawing, the V tail produces an excessive rolling moment, coupled with a higher likelihood of overload failure.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Wednesday 26th July 20:25
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
DrDeAtH said:
What is with the Americans and the twin tail on their aircraft? (Not just this aircraft)
Its not a 'Twin tail', it's a 'V tail' or 'Butterfly tail'.The advantages of this set up are that you effectively have 2 control surfaces (wings + ruddervators) as opposed to 3 (wings, fin, tailplane), thus you have less structural weight. More important is the reduced surface area leading to less Induced and Parasite Drag (although NASA studies question this since a V tailed a/c tends to require a larger tail than does a conventionally tailed a/c). Additionally the reduction of intersection surfaces from 3 to 2 produces a net reduction in drag through elimination of interference drag.
Also in the case of the Cirrus, having a V tail means that the tail surfaces are clear of the jet efflux.
The disadvantages are that when yawing, the V tail produces an excessive rolling moment, coupled with a higher likelihood of overload failure.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Wednesday 26th July 20:25
- except overload failure certainly a risk in the very low percentiles given the technology and testing put into this machine?
And I do hope lots and lots of private jets are bought and clog up the airways; given the amount of space GA is being left down here near the deck maybe the powers that be will finally give us back more sky to fly in so GA jets then won't bother the companies up at the high FL's. Guess who is bored to tears with commercial aviation getting all their own way........infact I may well take a few more FL trips to annoy people
Best take my asprin now before the heart goes.....!kurt535 said:
- except overload failure certainly a risk in the very low percentiles given the technology and testing put into this machine?
One would hope so given modern materials technology!The fact remains, however, that the loading on a V tail will always be greater than that on an equivalent conventional tail.
WRT GA I feel your pain. I flew to Staverton last month on 'Project Propellor'. It felt really odd bimbling around at 2000 - 2500 ft QNH. My head was in swivel gear since every other bugger and his dog was at similar altitude.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
kurt535 said:
- except overload failure certainly a risk in the very low percentiles given the technology and testing put into this machine?
One would hope so given modern materials technology!The fact remains, however, that the loading on a V tail will always be greater than that on an equivalent conventional tail.
WRT GA I feel your pain. I flew to Staverton last month on 'Project Propellor'. It felt really odd bimbling around at 2000 - 2500 ft QNH. My head was in swivel gear since every other bugger and his dog was at similar altitude.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
djc206 said:
Not another VLJ!
This man is correct.Also, if someone could set fire to all examples of the following, id be most appreciative :\
- Dash 8
- Pilatus PC12.
Yours, a frazzled ATCO.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
No, they have the audacity to try and cruise at FL250 though, which is the interface level for us.
Climb profiles on the new A359s are another annoyance of late. Absolute pants!
Most airbuses are sClimb profiles on the new A359s are another annoyance of late. Absolute pants!
te so that didn't come as much of a surprise. You must remember the Sri Lankan A343 that used to skim the white cliffs on its way towards KOK every night.djc206 said:
They're bloody slow and get in the way. In fairness this one apparently has a ceiling of FL280 so isn't trying to cruise at big boy levels unlike other small jets such as the Citation Mustang but it's still much much slower than most private jets and airliners which can be a nuisance.
I'm not denying that they are slow but the Mustang has a ceiling of 41,000 ft which is above the level most commercial stuff travels at. Like some of the other VLJs, the only way you can get the range out of them is to fly them at ceiling, so they are often above the big boys. I used to fly a similar performing aircraft and being slow does have its benefits (being vectored off the airways & getting more direct routings so you don't get in the way ;-)FuzzyLogic said:
I'm not denying that they are slow but the Mustang has a ceiling of 41,000 ft which is above the level most commercial stuff travels at. Like some of the other VLJs, the only way you can get the range out of them is to fly them at ceiling, so they are often above the big boys. I used to fly a similar performing aircraft and being slow does have its benefits (being vectored off the airways & getting more direct routings so you don't get in the way ;-)
Except most of the time they play around at 380/390 which most of the modern big boys fly at. They're also difficult to integrate with real bizjets. You've got GLEXs, GLF's and everything made by Dassault bombing around at .85+ with those bloody things in their way. They can't even convert to a decent IAS, a jet that can't keep up with a Dash 8, shameful!Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff