End of the A380?
Discussion
We all know the 747 is coming to the end of its life.
Well only 10 years after the A380 came into service it looks like it might be going the same way.
Apparently there are some carriers who are looking to park their 380s and some have already started to do so due to running costs.
I wonder if the recent engine issues have not helped..
Anyway quite shocking news really given the A380 Plus is due to go into production soon. I always wanted to fly on one but might never get the chance if they end up getting scrapped or turned into cargo. Emirates are looking to sell as many as they can and replace with 787s!
Well only 10 years after the A380 came into service it looks like it might be going the same way.
Apparently there are some carriers who are looking to park their 380s and some have already started to do so due to running costs.
I wonder if the recent engine issues have not helped..
Anyway quite shocking news really given the A380 Plus is due to go into production soon. I always wanted to fly on one but might never get the chance if they end up getting scrapped or turned into cargo. Emirates are looking to sell as many as they can and replace with 787s!
Sorry it was Singapore who are selling, well I say selling they terminated the lease and the aircraft now has no engines and has been returned to the leasing company. Currently one so far but I think they also have another which is going the same way.
Emirates have no orders and are trying their best to slow down the past orders. They are still due around 45 aircraft. It seems they are operating the A380 on some fairly short haul routes which must be killing their profits. Airbus say they will save carriers 12-15% with upgrades but is it enough?
Seems most long haul airlines still have aircraft on back order but its not as simple as that I guess as orders can be cancelled. I think the fact that Airbus have the A350 on the go kind of shows where things are going?
Emirates have no orders and are trying their best to slow down the past orders. They are still due around 45 aircraft. It seems they are operating the A380 on some fairly short haul routes which must be killing their profits. Airbus say they will save carriers 12-15% with upgrades but is it enough?
Seems most long haul airlines still have aircraft on back order but its not as simple as that I guess as orders can be cancelled. I think the fact that Airbus have the A350 on the go kind of shows where things are going?
red_slr said:
Sorry it was Singapore who are selling, well I say selling they terminated the lease and the aircraft now has no engines and has been returned to the leasing company. Currently one so far but I think they also have another which is going the same way.
Emirates have no orders and are trying their best to slow down the past orders. They are still due around 45 aircraft. It seems they are operating the A380 on some fairly short haul routes which must be killing their profits. Airbus say they will save carriers 12-15% with upgrades but is it enough?
Seems most long haul airlines still have aircraft on back order but its not as simple as that I guess as orders can be cancelled. I think the fact that Airbus have the A350 on the go kind of shows where things are going?
Singapore have just invested a huge amount having 14 A380’s refitted with new interiors which shows they intend to keep the type for some time yet. They also have orders to replace the early aircraft as do Emirates I believe.Emirates have no orders and are trying their best to slow down the past orders. They are still due around 45 aircraft. It seems they are operating the A380 on some fairly short haul routes which must be killing their profits. Airbus say they will save carriers 12-15% with upgrades but is it enough?
Seems most long haul airlines still have aircraft on back order but its not as simple as that I guess as orders can be cancelled. I think the fact that Airbus have the A350 on the go kind of shows where things are going?
It’s been far from a success but they’ll be lumbering around our skies for a long time yet.
Fundamentally it just isn’t an efficient design.
4 engines, double deck, so the OEW/ Seat (weight of aircraft per seat) actually isn’t very good, it is only cost effective because it is big, which means you have to fill it. A modern aircraft (A350 or B787) is better on a per seat basis, with less risk, and a B777-300ER not much worse
Singapore aren’t selling, but they are handing the keys back at the end of the lease as new ones arrive so the fleet size is staying the same
In an odd way, they should have made it bigger. The wings and vertical stabiliser were actually sized to allow a stretch- another reason why it isn’t as efficient as it could be. The value of the 380 to airlines is for routes/ times where you can fill all the seats, so having 650 or 700 seats in a stretch A380 is worth it vs 300 seats in an A350
It is quiet and a nice plane to fly on
4 engines, double deck, so the OEW/ Seat (weight of aircraft per seat) actually isn’t very good, it is only cost effective because it is big, which means you have to fill it. A modern aircraft (A350 or B787) is better on a per seat basis, with less risk, and a B777-300ER not much worse
Singapore aren’t selling, but they are handing the keys back at the end of the lease as new ones arrive so the fleet size is staying the same
In an odd way, they should have made it bigger. The wings and vertical stabiliser were actually sized to allow a stretch- another reason why it isn’t as efficient as it could be. The value of the 380 to airlines is for routes/ times where you can fill all the seats, so having 650 or 700 seats in a stretch A380 is worth it vs 300 seats in an A350
It is quiet and a nice plane to fly on
Just to add - SQ are handing the keys back at 12 years, not 9. Aircraft finance leases are almost always 12 years.
A380 in service date was 2006. There is also an issue with the early build ones (like the SQ ones) with the wiring so they are heavier, and maintenance is a bespoke nightmare pig, so no one in their right mind will want them. Later ones are more likely to fly for 20 years plus
Then again, early build B787-8 (up to number 15-20 ISTR) are even worse...
A380 in service date was 2006. There is also an issue with the early build ones (like the SQ ones) with the wiring so they are heavier, and maintenance is a bespoke nightmare pig, so no one in their right mind will want them. Later ones are more likely to fly for 20 years plus
Then again, early build B787-8 (up to number 15-20 ISTR) are even worse...
I would also say very unlikely to be converted to freighters. Only useful for package operators like Fedex, and will need special equipment for loading.
The B777 is also not going to be a good conversion candidate- the pax floor isn’t strong enough so will be a major rebuild. The B747 was designed at the start to be an easy/ good conversion, as the assumption was that they would be made obsolete by supersonic aircraft in the passenger business!
The B777 is also not going to be a good conversion candidate- the pax floor isn’t strong enough so will be a major rebuild. The B747 was designed at the start to be an easy/ good conversion, as the assumption was that they would be made obsolete by supersonic aircraft in the passenger business!
wisbech said:
I would also say very unlikely to be converted to freighters. Only useful for package operators like Fedex, and will need special equipment for loading.
The B777 is also not going to be a good conversion candidate- the pax floor isn’t strong enough so will be a major rebuild. The B747 was designed at the start to be an easy/ good conversion, as the assumption was that they would be made obsolete by supersonic aircraft in the passenger business!
FedEx seem to be moving towards twin engined for their fleet. Wikipedia suggests that they’re replacing all their old MD’s and Airbus’ with 767’s and 777F’s. Makes sense. Just as an aside I flew out of Memphis in September and the FedEx setup there is simply astounding. Playing guess the type whilst walking around was made very difficult by the sheer variety of old stuff they fly.The B777 is also not going to be a good conversion candidate- the pax floor isn’t strong enough so will be a major rebuild. The B747 was designed at the start to be an easy/ good conversion, as the assumption was that they would be made obsolete by supersonic aircraft in the passenger business!
There’s something special about the 747 that means I’ll be sad to see them go. The A380 as nice as it is to fly on is just not cool.
red_slr said:
I always thought the mixed use 747 was always a great idea but it never really took off.
There were quite a few built, but new combi's are now pretty much impossible, after a crash back in the 80's the regulators have made it uneconomic to design a new one.Plus a B777-300ER or an A350 is a combi in terms of capacity. 300+ passengers and 20-25 tonnes of cargo.
An Irish based leasing firm has a number on order that it's not manged to get rid of. They are planning to start their own airline...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/leasing-com...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/leasing-com...
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