Are modern warships armour plated?
Discussion
jkh112 said:
If the armour doesn’t stop the ship being disabled or sinking then what is it there for?
There will always be threats developed which can go beyond the design limitations of a particular protection system, but the armour used in modern warship design is selected and placed to maintain the fight, move, float capabilities when the ship is hit by specified threats. With the new armour in place the ship will survive a hit by these threats, without the armour the ship would not survive.
The only reason any armour is fitted to modern ships is to provide protection to its crew.There will always be threats developed which can go beyond the design limitations of a particular protection system, but the armour used in modern warship design is selected and placed to maintain the fight, move, float capabilities when the ship is hit by specified threats. With the new armour in place the ship will survive a hit by these threats, without the armour the ship would not survive.
Do i need to remind you about HMS Nottingham that was damaged so badly by a rock that she never went back into active service even after 30+ million being spent to repair her.
Wolf rock caused a 160 foot gash from her bow to her bridge and nearly sank her
If that had been a torpedo instead of a rock no amount of armour(that she did not have in her bows) would have made a difference.
citizensm1th said:
The only reason any armour is fitted to modern ships is to provide protection to its crew.
It is a shame that this is a topic which cannot be discussed in too much detail on a public forum as your statement above is far from the truth.In terms of Nottingham, the gash from bow to bridge as you put it, is not a typical damage from a threat weapon and so is not what modern armour is designed to protect against. That type of damage is better dealt with by other types of protection and design features.
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 11th January 23:07
Evanivitch said:
I don't know if they use much in ships, but I do know that if it is indeed an armoured grade then I'm pretty sure it's not British steel.
They use kevlar to provide splinter protection in crew areas , it is just not worth the weight penalty to use anything else in modern warships.They work on the basis of decoy,dodge or shoot down any threats.
with modern anti ship weapons you don't want heavy armour transmitting shock waves through your delicate equipment (modern torpedoes don't even hit a ship they explode under the ship using the water to transmit the shock wave and do the damage)
There is a school of thought that lighter thinner ships may be better as badly fused weapons may well just pass right through before exploding as happened several times in the falklands.
jkh112 said:
Armour has never stopped ships getting hit.
Armour can still be used to stop ships sinking.
HMS Hood had a lot of armour.Armour can still be used to stop ships sinking.
http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs2.htm
Are shaped charges considered a threat in the naval theatre?
citizensm1th said:
They use kevlar to provide splinter protection in crew areas , it is just not worth the weight penalty to use anything else in modern warships.
Splinters? Are we still sailing wooden ships? Perhaps you mean spalling Evanivitch said:
Are shaped charges considered a threat in the naval theatre?
No i don't look up shell/bomb splinterscitizensm1th said:
They use kevlar to provide splinter protection in crew areas , it is just not worth the weight penalty to use anything else in modern warships.
Splinters? Are we still sailing wooden ships? Perhaps you mean spalling Evanivitch said:
Are shaped charges considered a threat in the naval theatre?
Citizen smith is really showing his knowledge and convincing me he knows what he is talking about. Not only does he seem to refer to spalling or maybe fragmentation as splinters but he seems ignorant of the weight penalty taken in modern warships to provide far more substantial armour than just Kevlar type in crew areas. This armour is designed and located to improve the survivabilty of the ship and is not necessarily located in crew areas. It is fitted to modern warships and has a significant impact on the layout, weight, cost and production but is still deemed effective enough that these penalties are accepted.citizensm1th said:
They use kevlar to provide splinter protection in crew areas , it is just not worth the weight penalty to use anything else in modern warships.
Splinters? Are we still sailing wooden ships? Perhaps you mean spalling There were lessons from the Falklands around “splinters” but these were purely in relation to crew protection and nothing to do with ship survivability.
Edit to add: off to bed now. I’ll leave citizensmith to tell how ship protection armour is obsolete on the basis he seems to know a bit about how Kevlar is used to protect the crew from secondary effects.
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 11th January 23:38
FourWheelDrift said:
IIRC The USS Iowa was as part of its museum agreement but I think that has now been cancelled and it's no longer in reserve, just a museum.
Ahh ok, it did seem rather optimistic to try and return her to service. jkh112 said:
OP asked about modern warships.
valid point!As a more general point, didn't the concept of "armoured" ships begin with "Ironclads" where the sides of wooden ships had sheets of iron to prevent canon balls penetrating, As canons got more powerful the steel got thicker - then the ships were made completely of steel/iron with thick sides (WW1). However as the guns got more powerful and achieved greater range, the shells were "plunging" - aircraft bombs also came vertically ...and so the thinner horizontal decks also needed thick armour and the whole ship got a lot heavier ....and also needed below waterline "anti torpedo blisters".
A fascinating topic and certainly German armour proved very effective with the Bismark!
A fascinating topic and certainly German armour proved very effective with the Bismark!
Dad served on HMS Dido in WW2
When a Leander Class Frigate was named Dido (F104) he was down to Chatham like a shot, and to say he was welcomed in every mess and Wardroom was an understatement. .....I drove home after pouring him in the bsack of the car
Back to armour. When he was in the forward mess he leant back angainst the hull and he moved it!!
He went on about how much the old girls had in WW2 ,and was told nowadays ( back in the 60's!) it is better to let the missile go through without going off than have a big bang on the side.
Really loved the Navy Days back then at Pompey and Chatham Went on one of the County Class destroyers and it had wooden panelling on some decks!!!
When a Leander Class Frigate was named Dido (F104) he was down to Chatham like a shot, and to say he was welcomed in every mess and Wardroom was an understatement. .....I drove home after pouring him in the bsack of the car
Back to armour. When he was in the forward mess he leant back angainst the hull and he moved it!!
He went on about how much the old girls had in WW2 ,and was told nowadays ( back in the 60's!) it is better to let the missile go through without going off than have a big bang on the side.
Really loved the Navy Days back then at Pompey and Chatham Went on one of the County Class destroyers and it had wooden panelling on some decks!!!
jkh112 said:
Armour has never stopped ships getting hit.
Armour can still be used to stop ships sinking.
I spent several months working onboard a Cold War era Russian built seismic ship, the MV Baki, a decade or so ago. Apparently all ships built in that period had to be up to military spec, regardless of their purpose. This thing was heavy, like a tank, Hull frames every 18 inches, all internal fuel tanks were separate to the hull, you could walk around between them below decks. Normally they are welding in as part of the ships structure but these were double layered. Armour can still be used to stop ships sinking.
There was also a shower system built in, that could deluge the whole the the superstructure with massive amounts of sea water, in case of nuclear fallout.
All internal doors were heavy watertight doors, every room, cabin, office below decks was like that.
Due to a shortage of cabins I was second in the ships hospital. Full surgical facility, but rather dated. The only good thing was the huge bathtub, big enough to full immerse burn victims. Absolutely grand to soak in after work, endless hot water, nothing but my face above water level.
Time on th Russian ship would be really interesting. I have spent time onboard military from many nations but never an active Russian one.
The pre-wet system to cover the top sides in water in the event of NBCD attack is fitted to our ships as well. Great fun walking the upper deck when it is active, someone has to check the nozzles!
The pre-wet system to cover the top sides in water in the event of NBCD attack is fitted to our ships as well. Great fun walking the upper deck when it is active, someone has to check the nozzles!
BrettMRC said:
^ re the videos - what always interests me with the modern(ish) stuff is how long they stay afloat for even with seemingly catastrophic damage and no damage repair taking place, power or pumps running,
Remember that the ships in videos do not have any fuel or munitions on board. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff