Why do aircrew look so scruffy?
Discussion
Cossieflyer said:
Ever thought that the reason some pilots are scruffy is a "statement" to the fact of how they are feeling, like over worked disillusioned and under paid ?? Especially as YIPPER says
" There's nothing glamorous about having to pay for your own flight training or being jammed into a tiny seat next to a fat man with BO"
Which I completely agree with
There also seems to be a lot of sexist remarks here with wanting to get over friendly with comments like
"what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
"young ladies would aspire to date or marry one" (quote: from streetrod)
"Sitting next to a man with BO". I'm sure you could also be sitting next to a fat women with BO
REALLY!!!! I haven't read any comments regarding glamorous nymphomaniac stewards or young men aspiring to date or marry a pilot
If you go back in time when pilots levitated as they walked through the airport, having young kids run up to these self appointed Demi Gods for autographs, looking well turned out...... Just remember so we're their passengers!! Men in a suit and tie and women dressed up to the nines as if going to see royalty, they don't do that anymore either, whether first class or cattle class. Everybody today dress for comfort and that means casual, except if your looking for a free upgrade the. You have to look like the bees knees to get free upgrade. It happened to me on a KLM flight to the USA.
Given the choice rather than looking at the flight crews attire, I would much rather see their personnel file showing how much flight time they have and especially on type. I would like to know if they have failed any of their skills tests at anytime and whether if need be they would surrender control to their co-pilot if at any time the flight was going south.
Nympho Stewards? Dear Lord, they're at it far more than us knackered farts in the cockpit. Now, there is the old stereotype about all stewards being gay, but the cockpit is very far from an exclusively heterosexual place of work as well." There's nothing glamorous about having to pay for your own flight training or being jammed into a tiny seat next to a fat man with BO"
Which I completely agree with
There also seems to be a lot of sexist remarks here with wanting to get over friendly with comments like
"what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
"young ladies would aspire to date or marry one" (quote: from streetrod)
"Sitting next to a man with BO". I'm sure you could also be sitting next to a fat women with BO
REALLY!!!! I haven't read any comments regarding glamorous nymphomaniac stewards or young men aspiring to date or marry a pilot
If you go back in time when pilots levitated as they walked through the airport, having young kids run up to these self appointed Demi Gods for autographs, looking well turned out...... Just remember so we're their passengers!! Men in a suit and tie and women dressed up to the nines as if going to see royalty, they don't do that anymore either, whether first class or cattle class. Everybody today dress for comfort and that means casual, except if your looking for a free upgrade the. You have to look like the bees knees to get free upgrade. It happened to me on a KLM flight to the USA.
Given the choice rather than looking at the flight crews attire, I would much rather see their personnel file showing how much flight time they have and especially on type. I would like to know if they have failed any of their skills tests at anytime and whether if need be they would surrender control to their co-pilot if at any time the flight was going south.
Of all industries, I am probably safe in saying that airlines are one of the least bothered by irrelevances such as who someone has sex with. Most of us simply couldn't give a monkeys.
I'm glad to say that whilst there is the inevitable dinosaur left in some places, having women flying is also generally not remarked upon at all now (other than by PR departments trying to make a point) which is exactly as it should be.
We shouldn't need to make a big thing about acceptance. The simple truth is that women are as welcome as men are. You can either fly or not and getting hung up about phraseology doesn't change anything.
Oh and just FYI. I have sat next to many smelly blokes in cockpits, but I can never recall sitting next to a woman who had bad BO. Though that appears to be true in real life too not just onboard.
Halmyre said:
Cossieflyer said:
There also seems to be a lot of sexist remarks here with wanting to get over friendly with comments like
"what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
Tongue firmly in cheek..."what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
Shakermaker said:
Halmyre said:
Cossieflyer said:
There also seems to be a lot of sexist remarks here with wanting to get over friendly with comments like
"what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
Tongue firmly in cheek..."what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?"
Shakermaker said:
But hey, the stereotype exists with good reason and examples still prevail. One of my wife's best friends is cabin crew, she enjoys all the night stops they have to do if the stories she tells my wife are true.
My sister was BA CC for just over a year and a huge number of the girls she worked with were hoping to bag themselves a pilot, many succeeded to varying degrees. One first officer my sister worked with was quite persistent with her, creepy little bugger was probably used to getting his own way. I think my dad was quietly hoping she would find herself a nice man with epaulettes, ‘twas not to be.djc206 said:
Shakermaker said:
But hey, the stereotype exists with good reason and examples still prevail. One of my wife's best friends is cabin crew, she enjoys all the night stops they have to do if the stories she tells my wife are true.
My sister was BA CC for just over a year and a huge number of the girls she worked with were hoping to bag themselves a pilot, many succeeded to varying degrees. One first officer my sister worked with was quite persistent with her, creepy little bugger was probably used to getting his own way. I think my dad was quietly hoping she would find herself a nice man with epaulettes, ‘twas not to be.Streetrod said:
I am currently doing some consultancy work at Gatwick so on a daily basis I am seeing a lot of flight deck crew wandering around.
What has surprised is how overweight and scruffy a number of them look. As a child of the 60’s I remember aircrew in the late 60’s and 70’s looking very dashing and smart. Kids used to ask for their autographs and pics to be taken with them and young ladies would aspire to date or marry one.
The ones I saw today had ill-fitting and very cheap looking uniforms and none of the flight crew had the demeanour of someone working in what I thought used to be a glamorous job as a pilot.
Where did it all go wrong?
The 'Glamour' days of Pilots and Cabin Crew are sadly long gone.What has surprised is how overweight and scruffy a number of them look. As a child of the 60’s I remember aircrew in the late 60’s and 70’s looking very dashing and smart. Kids used to ask for their autographs and pics to be taken with them and young ladies would aspire to date or marry one.
The ones I saw today had ill-fitting and very cheap looking uniforms and none of the flight crew had the demeanour of someone working in what I thought used to be a glamorous job as a pilot.
Where did it all go wrong?
The reason the majority of flight crew have ill-fitting and cheap looking uniforms is for that very reason!
Going back around 15 years ago in my first Airline job, all Pilots had a professional fitting with a Tailor who would ensure that we all had a correctly fitting uniform made from quality, and hard wearing materials.
Today, the mass majority of Pilots have a set of standard sized garments to choose from, and they pick the closest size they can find. As the Airlines don't generally offer a personal Tailoring service anymore, any alterations would have to be arranged and paid for by the crew member and so this doesn't generally happen. In order to keep costs down, the general quality of fabrics used in these uniforms is poor with very light and thin material being used which tends to crease and wear very quickly.
The final factor is that the Pilots and Air Crew are generally worked a lot harder than they were back in the day, so uniforms suffer far more wear and tear than they would have years ago, and the crew get less 'down time' between duty's in which to clean and maintain the uniform.
So to sum it all up, The uniforms are cheaper, and the crew work harder - end result = shabby, tired crew.
And why?? Because the general public want to fly around the world for £25 meaning airline overheads need to be lower and crew productivity higher.
I was on a Thompson long haul flight a few years ago sat up front. The FO kept coming out every hour or so to use the loo, get a drink, chat to the crew etc and each time he looked like he had been fighting wild animals in the cockpit whilst eating a kebab.
About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
red_slr said:
I was on a Thompson long haul flight a few years ago sat up front. The FO kept coming out every hour or so to use the loo, get a drink, chat to the crew etc and each time he looked like he had been fighting wild animals in the cockpit whilst eating a kebab.
About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
That will have been on the 767 which has no 'crew rest' area. Often operated with 3 flight crew who would fly in rotating shifts in order to extend the crew operating hours on longer flights. A cabin seat was kept vacant to allow the non operating crew member to 'rest' away from the flight deck. Not an ideal situation for either Pilots or Passengers but a compromised means of meeting requirements at the time.About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
However, just because the Pilot enjoyed the odd potato snack whilst watching a movie (like most people) I'd rest assured they still had the required skills to fly the aircraft safely!
Now that airline have 787's for the longer flights which come with a 'crew rest' area upstairs at the rear of the aircraft. This means the crew can operate for longer hours as they can physically lie flat for a couple of hours. This doesn't help their appearance however when they re-emerge however having been lay in a tight, enclosed and sweaty space for a couple of hours in their uniform!
Sifly said:
Now that airline have 787's for the longer flights which come with a 'crew rest' area upstairs at the rear of the aircraft. This means the crew can operate for longer hours as they can physically lie flat for a couple of hours. This doesn't help their appearance however when they re-emerge however having been lay in a tight, enclosed and sweaty space for a couple of hours in their uniform!
Flight deck rest areas are typically close to the flight deck, saves the flight crew traipsing through the cabin to get there. Most recent A/C actually have pretty decent sized rest areas too these days.I'm not sure if it's policy or not between airlines, but most cabin and flight deck crew I know get changed for their 3 or so hours rest. (BA/Virgin)
Badgerboy said:
Flight deck rest areas are typically close to the flight deck, saves the flight crew traipsing through the cabin to get there. Most recent A/C actually have pretty decent sized rest areas too these days.
I'm not sure if it's policy or not between airlines, but most cabin and flight deck crew I know get changed for their 3 or so hours rest. (BA/Virgin)
There are plenty of aircraft where the crew rest areas can be optioned at the rear of the jet. I'm not sure if it's policy or not between airlines, but most cabin and flight deck crew I know get changed for their 3 or so hours rest. (BA/Virgin)
In my mob, we all get changed out of uniform before getting in the bunks. Doing otherwise is, frankly, grim.
Testaburger said:
Badgerboy said:
Flight deck rest areas are typically close to the flight deck, saves the flight crew traipsing through the cabin to get there. Most recent A/C actually have pretty decent sized rest areas too these days.
I'm not sure if it's policy or not between airlines, but most cabin and flight deck crew I know get changed for their 3 or so hours rest. (BA/Virgin)
There are plenty of aircraft where the crew rest areas can be optioned at the rear of the jet. I'm not sure if it's policy or not between airlines, but most cabin and flight deck crew I know get changed for their 3 or so hours rest. (BA/Virgin)
In my mob, we all get changed out of uniform before getting in the bunks. Doing otherwise is, frankly, grim.
On the planes with no crew rest, we would use one of the first class suites, which was much more pleasant than the claustrophobic box at the back!
Sifly said:
red_slr said:
I was on a Thompson long haul flight a few years ago sat up front. The FO kept coming out every hour or so to use the loo, get a drink, chat to the crew etc and each time he looked like he had been fighting wild animals in the cockpit whilst eating a kebab.
About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
That will have been on the 767 which has no 'crew rest' area. About 6 hours in he came out and sat down for an hour to watch some TV and sat there chomping on some crisps whilst mashing the touch screen TV with greasy paws.
Didn't fill me with confidence I must say.
Like in any job or groups of people, there are differences in what people view as acceptable standards.
I try to look smart whenever in public, I wouldn’t feel happy otherwise. Others aren’t as bothered. If you go to a country where people make the effort then you notice it, it makes you feel better, it has a knock on positive affect on many little things.
As others have said, if you see scruffy people, especially when they are responsible for your safety, you can’t help but feel they might be scruffy in other aspects of their job.
I know this isn’t often actually the case but that’s because I know scruffy pilots that are great at their job.
I’m sure we all know people that look scruffier than others, are they scruffy in other aspects of their lives or their jobs? Not necessarily.
It does show though that people’s appearances are important in how you asses things, we’re very influenced by all sorts of biases, even if it’s not immediately obvious to us.
I try to look smart whenever in public, I wouldn’t feel happy otherwise. Others aren’t as bothered. If you go to a country where people make the effort then you notice it, it makes you feel better, it has a knock on positive affect on many little things.
As others have said, if you see scruffy people, especially when they are responsible for your safety, you can’t help but feel they might be scruffy in other aspects of their job.
I know this isn’t often actually the case but that’s because I know scruffy pilots that are great at their job.
I’m sure we all know people that look scruffier than others, are they scruffy in other aspects of their lives or their jobs? Not necessarily.
It does show though that people’s appearances are important in how you asses things, we’re very influenced by all sorts of biases, even if it’s not immediately obvious to us.
Rubymurray said:
On the 777, the pilots rest area is normally at the front of the aircraft. Emirates, in their wisdom, deleted this option in order to have a higher ceiling in first class. The pilots therefore have to walk the entire length of the plane to rest, dodging passengers and crew on the way. Most will get changed into pjs before they head back.
On the planes with no crew rest, we would use one of the first class suites, which was much more pleasant than the claustrophobic box at the back!
Indeed. I spent quite a while on the 777 with the standard forward crew rest area. All told, it's still probably the best in the business. My Jazzy new A350 has a similarly located rest area - though even further forward. On the planes with no crew rest, we would use one of the first class suites, which was much more pleasant than the claustrophobic box at the back!
There are some garbage ones out there, though. The Airbus 340 underfloor springs to mind. I'm also not fond of the 747 flight deck crew rest, as you can still hear the chimes and what-not.
Halmyre said:
IforB said:
Halmyre said:
Oh boo hoo, what other job gives you the chance to indulge in massive cockpit orgies with nymphomaniac stewardesses?
Can you point me to that airline please? I've been trying to sort that out for years, but never got passed getting punched in the face.As we descended, the door swung inward, and she was sitting on one of the flight crew’s lap, attempting to poke her tongue through his ear and out of the other one.
hyphen said:
Streetrod said:
I am currently doing some consultancy work at Gatwick so on a daily basis I am seeing a lot of flight deck crew wandering around.
What has surprised is how overweight and scruffy a number of them look.
Do you see a difference by airline though? Airlines from some countries are regarded to still be in the 'lose weight or lose your job' camp.What has surprised is how overweight and scruffy a number of them look.
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