Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 Engine Failure
Discussion
paul0843 said:
An aircraft engineer that I sat next to on a flight yesterday told me that the biggest
concern was the window being pierced.
Apparently this should never have happened.
Paul
The pax windows won’t withstand a blow from an engine part at high velocity. It would never be designed to I don’t think?! Engine parts must weigh a fair bit I’d say?concern was the window being pierced.
Apparently this should never have happened.
Paul
Edited by Jamesgt on Monday 23 April 08:18
Speed 3 said:
Like I said, it's a somewhat outdated design principle orginated from props which have a bit more blunt, low pressure force but you are right in that a small puncture (even at high energy/velocity) is preferable to a whole window blowing. The area is typically thicker aluminium alloy than the general fuselage on some aircraft, being a "belt" principle.
They could just strengthen it with Kevlar backing here or something? Jamesgt said:
paul0843 said:
An aircraft engineer that I sat next to on a flight yesterday told me that the biggest
concern was the window being pierced.
Apparently this should never have happened.
Paul
The pax windows won’t withstand a blow from an engine part at high velocity. It would never be designed to I don’t think?! Engine parts must weigh a fair bit I’d say?concern was the window being pierced.
Apparently this should never have happened.
Paul
That said, the parts which rotate have a huge amount of energy imparted.
From listening to various ATC recordings it does seem that the American controllers sometimes struggle to determine initially between a minor problem and a major problem... Their phraseology seems more conversational "I need to declare an emergency" rather than mayday mayday mayday which sets the situation immediately.
Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
surveyor said:
From listening to various ATC recordings it does seem that the American controllers sometimes struggle to determine initially between a minor problem and a major problem... Their phraseology seems more conversational "I need to declare an emergency" rather than mayday mayday mayday which sets the situation immediately.
Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
The standard of RT in the States is very poor, a natural product of having the overwhelming majority of flights being operated by native English speakers I guess, everything is very casual.Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
We had a mayday this week involving one of the major US carriers which didn’t involve the word Mayday despite the potential severity of the incident. Just “we’ll be declaring an emergency”, which you’d get if someone had bumped their head down the back, they’d donned masks having suffered a decompression or were literally falling out of the sky. Very woolly and why we have Pan and Mayday to differentiate between urgency and distress.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
IME that might be down to the fact that Sectors in the US are responsible for FAR more a/c than their European equivalents.
I can only speak for my corner of the UK but the number of aircraft we work at any given time is largely dictated by frequency occupancy. On bigger sectors with fewer aircraft requiring deconfliction you can have a far greater number of aircraft on frequency.I was basing that on my experience of working Euro Civie ATC as opposed to US Civie ATC.
With the former, IME, you got calm, collected, comms with a repeat if you needed.
With the latter you could get overloaded with the sheer speed of their comms and who betide you if you missed a message!
With the former, IME, you got calm, collected, comms with a repeat if you needed.
With the latter you could get overloaded with the sheer speed of their comms and who betide you if you missed a message!
surveyor said:
From listening to various ATC recordings it does seem that the American controllers sometimes struggle to determine initially between a minor problem and a major problem... Their phraseology seems more conversational "I need to declare an emergency" rather than mayday mayday mayday which sets the situation immediately.
Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
I have been thinking this too. Lots have praised the crew and ATC for their professionalism but I found the comms between the two a bit wishy washy. Not to say they didn't do a good job, but I thought they could be clearer to each other. At the start of the video the crew explain engine fire and are on one engine but no mention of the de-pressurisation and no mayday call (This isn't essential as given the problem they explained the controller should understand it's an emergency and they will be squawking 7700). Then a minute later the ATC ask if they're single engine. Although there is a recording of a Aer Lingus losing an engine on take off at Orlando.. ATC's first reply to the mayday is "are you declaring an emergency"....
Even at the start of the video, SWA1380 calls centre and say "SWA1380 has an engine fire, descending" ATC come back with "You're descending right now?"
Maybe it's due to the airspace around that area being very congested?
I think it's just the way the American's do it. Like Philly approach having lengthy chats about how helpful he can be, rather than actually sticking to the point and being helpful.
Major contrast to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE&t=
Clear, concise and everyone knows what the score is. Okay, no de-pressurisation, so it might not be a fair comparison, but they also had much less height to play with.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I was basing that on my experience of working Euro Civie ATC as opposed to US Civie ATC.
With the former, IME, you got calm, collected, comms with a repeat if you needed.
With the latter you could get overloaded with the sheer speed of their comms and who betide you if you missed a message!
Absolutely. There’s a good recording from one of the New York airports of a BA pilot giving a bit of a passive aggressive response to the controller after he asks for a repeat and gets a bWith the former, IME, you got calm, collected, comms with a repeat if you needed.
With the latter you could get overloaded with the sheer speed of their comms and who betide you if you missed a message!
king. I guess we have Reagan to thank for the FAA’s short staffing.The irony is I find myself most often repeating and correcting Americans of all the pilots I have the pleasure of controlling. A waypoint and a level in the same transmission invariably evokes a response of “I understand.....” which is American for ‘I haven’t a clue what you said so I’m just going to mutter some nonsense and hope you correct me’. Thank god we have mode S these days, an extra level of protection.
Krikkit said:
Most of them are actually relatively light, being posh titanium/aluminium alloys. A fan blade, for example, is usually a hollow structure to allow cooling air to be passed through.
That said, the parts which rotate have a huge amount of energy imparted.
Why does a fan blade need cooling? That said, the parts which rotate have a huge amount of energy imparted.
Jamesgt said:
Krikkit said:
Most of them are actually relatively light, being posh titanium/aluminium alloys. A fan blade, for example, is usually a hollow structure to allow cooling air to be passed through.
That said, the parts which rotate have a huge amount of energy imparted.
Why does a fan blade need cooling? That said, the parts which rotate have a huge amount of energy imparted.
El stovey said:
I think it’s just a terminology issue. I think it’s usually only the turbine blades that have cooling holes etc. The “fan” is the bit at the front and not very hot.
That’s better! As for the part of the fuselage with the missing window. That is nothing more than the aircon riser duct located there, hence no window. On an -800 there are two riser ducts on left side, one on right side.
Edited by Jamesgt on Tuesday 24th April 07:59
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