RAF & Navy hardware looking quite modern nowadays
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
yellowjack said:
(b) I, too was wondering what happened to GG. Last time she posted anything was December 2018. I hope she's OK, she could be a bit abrasive at times but often had something significant to add to a thread.
Somewhat of a hand grenade, anyone that disagreed with her was pulling the pin 
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Boom78 said:
dukeboy749r said:
Anyway, it seems the U.K. army are to get a new ‘Ranger Regiment’ (that’s a s
t name), so perhaps more kit coming their way. And seemingly in the US, 100 booties overcame 1500 US troops, using technology to massively improve their odds.
In some respects ‘modern warfare’, at this stage in the 21st C, is about cyber, stealth and tech, rather than armament, equipment and sheer numbers.
Yup, modern soldiering will be done in very small specialist teams with quality cyber, kit and tech. The Royal Marines are trialling reducing their squads from 6 to 4 bootnecks as part of their future commando vision, army doing the same. Line infantry is a thing of yesteryear t name), so perhaps more kit coming their way. And seemingly in the US, 100 booties overcame 1500 US troops, using technology to massively improve their odds.In some respects ‘modern warfare’, at this stage in the 21st C, is about cyber, stealth and tech, rather than armament, equipment and sheer numbers.
Thread useless without pics; new rifles, new uniforms and kit, if I was baddie and he and buddies turned up I’d s*** myself
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 22 March 10:31
4 person teams may work for SF (for a number of reason) but booties are not SF and are not deployed the same.
There is not a lot of resilience in a four person team, especially if you take a casualty.
Boom78 said:
But tier 2 SF is the direction our infantry and marines are going in; stealth in, cause absolute havoc, hit hard, fade away. No need for mass invasions or holding. There’s some v good official royal marines videos doing the rounds talking about it. They’ll be globally positioned too rather than waiting at their main U.K. bases. I guess they’re changing approach based on the threat, eg Russian green men popping up.
How much of that will rely on the ability of the airforce, air corps and artillery to bring effects onto a target? It's hard to fight-light against anything armoured with a rifle, maybe a light ATGW, and a grenade launcher.Evanivitch said:
Boom78 said:
But tier 2 SF is the direction our infantry and marines are going in; stealth in, cause absolute havoc, hit hard, fade away. No need for mass invasions or holding. There’s some v good official royal marines videos doing the rounds talking about it. They’ll be globally positioned too rather than waiting at their main U.K. bases. I guess they’re changing approach based on the threat, eg Russian green men popping up.
How much of that will rely on the ability of the airforce, air corps and artillery to bring effects onto a target? It's hard to fight-light against anything armoured with a rifle, maybe a light ATGW, and a grenade launcher.Boom78 said:
But tier 2 SF is the direction our infantry and marines are going in; stealth in, cause absolute havoc, hit hard, fade away. No need for mass invasions or holding. There’s some v good official royal marines videos doing the rounds talking about it. They’ll be globally positioned too rather than waiting at their main U.K. bases. I guess they’re changing approach based on the threat, eg Russian green men popping up.
I see where you're coming from, but there is a role for very capable and flexible elite infantry...who backfills? How well would the new super bootie or para switch back to goose green / style tasking having spent a year developing small unit SF tactics.
It was interesting reading one of the sas books years ago - forget which now - but the author concluded that sas days were numbered. To be replaced by small skinny techno-geek with a brief case. Then the gulf and Afghanistan happened.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
It was interesting reading one of the sas books years ago - forget which now - but the author concluded that sas days were numbered. To be replaced by small skinny techno-geek with a brief case. Then the gulf and Afghanistan happened.
That's a horrible way to describe JTAC Defence is switching away from COIN to focus on the peer* or near peer adversary. The UK's peer/near peer adversaries have such special operations capabilities which the review aims at developing. Unfortunately, they also have huge conventional capability also. SpecOps capability, backed up by information manoeuvre and cyber as demonstrated by Russia in Crimea, the Donbass and going back to the 2nd Georgia conflict can be hugely successful. These type of operations are shaping and can be decisive. To counter that with similar operations, whilst possible risks the escalation in to conventional conflict at which the UK is totally out matched.
It is a gamble that we can neutralise the threat of such operations whilst not being able to escalate. In fact, the inability to match and escalation, means there is huge risk in committing to countering any similar hostile action.
When you think about it, how many folk in the UK armed forces can even remember a time where we weren't conducting COIN in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was the last major conventional conflict which lasted 26days. 18yrs ago. Those who were company commanders may now be Brigadiers, but only maybe 5-10% of those are still in.
It is a gamble that we can neutralise the threat of such operations whilst not being able to escalate. In fact, the inability to match and escalation, means there is huge risk in committing to countering any similar hostile action.
When you think about it, how many folk in the UK armed forces can even remember a time where we weren't conducting COIN in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was the last major conventional conflict which lasted 26days. 18yrs ago. Those who were company commanders may now be Brigadiers, but only maybe 5-10% of those are still in.
- Peer being an adversary deemed to have equal in capability not necessarily scale. Could be smaller or larger.
Evanivitch said:
How much of that will rely on the ability of the airforce, air corps and artillery to bring effects onto a target? It's hard to fight-light against anything armoured with a rifle, maybe a light ATGW, and a grenade launcher.
Based on the USMC squadrons being pretty much permanently assigned to cohabit our carriers and our marines/paras based in the states integrating (from uniforms to rifles) that’s the future right there, combined U.K/USMC reaction force isn’t it? The join up goes far beyond the usual nato partner thing. Our lads, lasses and hardware form an element of a very sharp pointy stick Boom78 said:
Based on the USMC squadrons being pretty much permanently assigned to cohabit our carriers and our marines/paras based in the states integrating (from uniforms to rifles) that’s the future right there, combined U.K/USMC reaction force isn’t it? The join up goes far beyond the usual nato partner thing. Our lads, lasses and hardware form an element of a very sharp pointy stick
That's not great against peer. I'm thinking about the current lack of weight and precision guidance in the Royal artillery, as well as a lack of heavy-ATGM carriers. We only have very few armed UAS too. Evanivitch said:
That's not great against peer. I'm thinking about the current lack of weight and precision guidance in the Royal artillery, as well as a lack of heavy-ATGM carriers. We only have very few armed UAS too.
Quite. I was working at BAE Systems when 60 odd AS90s were dismantled. Oh no, we won't be needing them again... Boom78 said:
Yup, modern soldiering will be done in very small specialist teams with quality cyber, kit and tech. The Royal Marines are trialling reducing their squads from 6 to 4 bootnecks as part of their future commando vision, army doing the same. Line infantry is a thing of yesteryear
Thread useless without pics; new rifles, new uniforms and kit, if I was baddie and he and buddies turned up I’d s*** myself
Well we are definitely hitting the image bit on the nose.Thread useless without pics; new rifles, new uniforms and kit, if I was baddie and he and buddies turned up I’d s*** myself
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 22 March 10:31
Apart from the cable tie to ensure the torch doesn't come adrift.
We (seemingly) will 'always' need cable ties...
X-post -
andy_s said:
For interest, the Defence Review '21 is out -
"The Integrated Review set out the Government’s current assessment of the major trends that will shape the national security and international environment to 2030. It is a context in which the nature and distribution of global power is changing as we move towards a more competitive and multipolar world. Over the coming decade, we judge that four overarching trends will be of particular importance to the UK and the changing international order:
• Geopolitical and geo-economic shifts, such as
the growing importance of the Indo-Pacific,
China’s increasing international assertiveness
and the influence of middle powers.
• Systemic competition, including between
states, and between democratic and
authoritarian values and systems of
government.
• Rapid technological change, that will reshape
our economies and societies, bringing
enormous benefits but also becoming an
arena of intensifying geopolitical competition.
• Transnational challenges that require
collective action, such as climate change,
biosecurity risks, terrorism and serious and
organised crime."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
"The Integrated Review set out the Government’s current assessment of the major trends that will shape the national security and international environment to 2030. It is a context in which the nature and distribution of global power is changing as we move towards a more competitive and multipolar world. Over the coming decade, we judge that four overarching trends will be of particular importance to the UK and the changing international order:
• Geopolitical and geo-economic shifts, such as
the growing importance of the Indo-Pacific,
China’s increasing international assertiveness
and the influence of middle powers.
• Systemic competition, including between
states, and between democratic and
authoritarian values and systems of
government.
• Rapid technological change, that will reshape
our economies and societies, bringing
enormous benefits but also becoming an
arena of intensifying geopolitical competition.
• Transnational challenges that require
collective action, such as climate change,
biosecurity risks, terrorism and serious and
organised crime."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Is the reality as a stand-alone nation we can’t afford or man-up the demands of where future conflicts or friction will be most likely contented e.g artic? Better to be part of a sharp pointy joint U.K/USMC force than rock up on own with next to sod all. Do we need dated tanks etc? If we can provide amazing naval/air assets and a good volume of quality tier 1 or 2 SF that’s punching isn’t it? What do we actually need as ‘musts’?
dukeboy749r said:
Boom78 said:
Yup, modern soldiering will be done in very small specialist teams with quality cyber, kit and tech. The Royal Marines are trialling reducing their squads from 6 to 4 bootnecks as part of their future commando vision, army doing the same. Line infantry is a thing of yesteryear
Thread useless without pics; new rifles, new uniforms and kit, if I was baddie and he and buddies turned up I’d s*** myself
Well we are definitely hitting the image bit on the nose.Thread useless without pics; new rifles, new uniforms and kit, if I was baddie and he and buddies turned up I’d s*** myself
Edited by Boom78 on Monday 22 March 10:31
Apart from the cable tie to ensure the torch doesn't come adrift.
We (seemingly) will 'always' need cable ties...
Boom78 said:
Do we need dated tanks etc? If we can provide amazing naval/air assets and a good volume of quality tier 1 or 2 SF that’s punching isn’t it?
Spoken like someone who has never had their sorry skin saved by a big angry 70 ton behemoth throwing lots of 120 at the bad guys trying to kill you.What we need is investment to make up for the 15ish years of stagnation. Dropping another regiments worth of MBT isn't the answer.
Air is great until you don't have aerial superiority.
Naval is great until you go to a landlocked country
DuncsGTi said:
Boom78 said:
Do we need dated tanks etc? If we can provide amazing naval/air assets and a good volume of quality tier 1 or 2 SF that’s punching isn’t it?
Spoken like someone who has never had their sorry skin saved by a big angry 70 ton behemoth throwing lots of 120 at the bad guys trying to kill you.What we need is investment to make up for the 15ish years of stagnation. Dropping another regiments worth of MBT isn't the answer.
Air is great until you don't have aerial superiority.
Naval is great until you go to a landlocked country
Boom78 said:
Is the reality as a stand-alone nation we can’t afford or man-up the demands of where future conflicts or friction will be most likely contented e.g artic? Better to be part of a sharp pointy joint U.K/USMC force than rock up on own with next to sod all. Do we need dated tanks etc? If we can provide amazing naval/air assets and a good volume of quality tier 1 or 2 SF that’s punching isn’t it? What do we actually need as ‘musts’?
All very well until you get divided political views. e.g. Falklands and Vietnam. Then you're fked. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff