Scary outriggers!!

Scary outriggers!!

Author
Discussion

PotlessPaul

Original Poster:

332 posts

239 months

Monday 18th June 2018
quotequote all
Hi all,

After a couple of years of putting it off and knowing that my outriggers could be described at least as "past their best" I decided to bite the bullet and do a partial lift to see the extent of the rot. Using the excellent guide posted on here by TVRgit (many thanks to you my friend, I owe you a drink) and the collective knowledge of the S Massif, notably Alan461I lfted the body and discovered this:





The offside one is far worse than the nearside but could only be seen from underneath after I hit it with a hammer to expose the crack that can be seen in the top photo (also note TVR's lovely straight welding!!) the rot on the nearside one could'nt be seen at all until the body was lifted.

Progress so far is that the n/s is done and the o/s is still work in progress, fabricated and in place but still needing to be welded but I've run out of time to get it done by S Club so I will be there but the car won't.
The new o/s outrigger in place.

Anybody else going to go out and check theirs?eek


Deeman

1,609 posts

181 months

Monday 18th June 2018
quotequote all
Urggh! Thats like asking everyone to check their balls Paul. We all know we should, but wouldn't want to deal with the consequences of not doing so either!

PotlessPaul

Original Poster:

332 posts

239 months

Monday 18th June 2018
quotequote all
Pete, if your gonads look like that, all flaky with holes in them, then you've got bigger problems than me!!! blah

tileart

156 posts

74 months

Monday 18th June 2018
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PotlessPaul said:
Anybody else going to go out and check theirs?
Forgive me if the mantra of "outriggers, outriggers, outriggers" occasionally confuses me. Does anyone have a photo of their outriggers after one or both failed, and what actually happened ?

TVRees

1,080 posts

111 months

Monday 18th June 2018
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I think that the main problem will be that your car will fail the MOT. Then you will have to get them repaired.

mrufcs1

81 posts

234 months

Monday 18th June 2018
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I've often wondered that !

They clearly support the body tub at its extremities but the main 'structure' is the space frame backbone. So do the replacements really need to be welded or can something else be engineered to support the tub without needing to lift it for the welding ?

phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
mrufcs1 said:
do the replacements really need to be welded or can something else be engineered to support the tub without needing to lift it for the welding ?
Short answer..............

Yes and no wink

Chim450

1,452 posts

260 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
tileart said:
PotlessPaul said:
Anybody else going to go out and check theirs?
Forgive me if the mantra of "outriggers, outriggers, outriggers" occasionally confuses me. Does anyone have a photo of their outriggers after one or both failed, and what actually happened ?
I guess you’ll find out if you are in a collision! Aren’t the seat belt mounts and seats bolted to the outriggers? Also if the outriggers are corroded then there is a fair chance that other chassis areas will be too.

BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

222 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
tileart said:
Forgive me if the mantra of "outriggers, outriggers, outriggers" occasionally confuses me. Does anyone have a photo of their outriggers after one or both failed, and what actually happened ?
On my 350i I had a problem opening / closing the doors which was getting steadily worse. I cannot remember the exact details as it was about 15 years ago, but on casual inspection it looked as though the doors had dropped. Anyway, turned out that the outriggers were completely shot. No longer have photos as it was before I had a digital camera and the photos were in the history file that I passed to the new owner when I sold it. New outriggers fitted and the doors suddenly worked again.

It would never have failed an MOT as they were not visible without removing the side skirts and for this reason I was blissfully unaware.

tileart

156 posts

74 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
So perhaps I don't need to change the door hinges after all ? Oh it makes me MAD....banghead
https://youtu.be/WzqSuHy8G-o

AutoAndy

2,265 posts

214 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
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PotlessPaul said:
Anybody else going to go out and check theirs?eek
...now why would I want to do that and spoil a nice day...

Glad you are getting it sorted Paul...just try to avoid it creeping into a full re-build.. wink

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
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PotlessPaul said:
Anybody else going to go out and check theirs?eek
No need, they're good hehe

chiefyo

279 posts

164 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
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(also note TVR's lovely straight welding!!) .

If that refers to the angle of the corner plates to the tube, I do believe they are meant to be like that. Mine certainly were

Also nice axle stands I looked at similar ones for a few years, when under various green things


Edited by chiefyo on Tuesday 19th June 17:32

mrufcs1

81 posts

234 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
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I'm not letting this one go !

Unlike a normal monocoque production car where the sills are part of the structural integrity of the car, in the S's the 'outriggers' do not give any rigidity to the chassis. All the rigidity is provided by the race car type space frame chassis. And they are certainly not built to withstand a side impact as they would give no protection at all to the occupant, especially when you consider the height of them to the modern car which is about to T bone you.

I understand that it is integral for keeping the body tub rigid, but a Morgan would do that with wood. TVR would have welded in the factory as when the chassis's were built that would be the easiest and most cost effective way to do it, but in a repair scenario it isn't as cost effective. The point being that it needs to be strong enough to support the body tub (including flexing of the door apertures), not to keep the four corners of the car connected together in the way the sills do on a monocoque car.

I agree that the seat belt anchor needs to be in secure metal, I'm more challenging whether a repair section needs to be welded (needing the body lift) or more practically a professionally 'engineered' bolted connection. Aircraft wings are bolted on, not welded. I work on a chemical plant in the north east, a lot of our pipebridges and structures are welded through it being cost effective, but where needed a bolted or riveted joint would be used. It is just as strong, just more costly to manufacture.


On a monocoque car, only the structural parts are welded ? The others are bolted or even glued !

PotlessPaul

Original Poster:

332 posts

239 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
AutoAndy said:
...just try to avoid it creeping into a full re-build.. wink
My bank balance will stop me doing that!!

PotlessPaul

Original Poster:

332 posts

239 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
No need, they're good hehe
I would'nt expect anything less than perfect from you Richard!!

phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
scratchchin Welding or riveting or glueing or whatever I'd have thought the body tub will need lifting (it's not a particulaly big job) to give access?




idea How about "Kee Klamps" ....



Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 19th June 20:59

PotlessPaul

Original Poster:

332 posts

239 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
chiefyo said:
(also note TVR's lovely straight welding!!) .

If that refers to the angle of the corner plates to the tube, I do believe they are meant to be like that. Mine certainly were



Edited by chiefyo on Tuesday 19th June 17:32
Does anybody know if they are supposed to be like that and if so why?

AlfaSpider

213 posts

197 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
I’ve just replaced the outriggers which were the same. It’s because the bottom of the body is level at the front of the footwell but the outriggers tilt upwards from the chassis rails outwards if that makes sense.

mrufcs1

81 posts

234 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
phillpot said:
Welding or otherwise I'd have thought the body tub will need lifting (it's not a particulaly big job) to give access?


Possibly, though you may have space to slide a larger bore tube over the top (or inside?). I guess it is really dependant of how far the rot has migrated !

How about "Kee Klamps" .... scratchchin

Sort of the principle I was thinking but I think a little extra 'precision engineering' would be required !