Planning permission dropped kerb
Discussion
Hello,
I hope this is the right place to post. I've done a bit of research which brings me to this site but I cannot find anything which relates to my circumstances.
My wife and I own a flat in a converted townhouse type building. There are 3 flats including ours and we each hold a share of the freehold. Next door is a mirror image but I'm not sure of the freehold situation (not that it really matters).
The deeds show that the ground floor flat owns the garden. The middle and top floor flats have access via the side and has their own access path. The ground floor flat has access to their property from the front and has their own path leading from the street to the flat.
The ground floor flat has now applied for permission to get the kerb dropped so they can park on their drive. This has to go through planning permission first due to it being a flat on a classified road.
I'm trying to find what valid reasons there could be for objecting to this planning permission, everything I read relates to houses and proposed developments such as extensions but in this case nothing is going to change except for a car being parked where it previously hasn't been.
As i said above, next door is a mirror image so the garden and layout is exactly the same so i'm wondering if the fact there will be a car on one side will effect the look of the building which will give a valid objection. There will be no change to the look of the property besides the fact there will be a car on one side and not the other.
The car will not be parked on an existing pathway, but the middle and top floor flats do use the garden as a short cut (they are aware the deeds show this to belong to the ground floor). So in theory should not block their access.
The car would not be blocking anyone's light, but would remove a parking space from outside the building (which is on a public road so not allocated to anyone in particular).
Is there anyone who had any experience of this that could think of any valid reasons for objecting to this application?
Thank you
I hope this is the right place to post. I've done a bit of research which brings me to this site but I cannot find anything which relates to my circumstances.
My wife and I own a flat in a converted townhouse type building. There are 3 flats including ours and we each hold a share of the freehold. Next door is a mirror image but I'm not sure of the freehold situation (not that it really matters).
The deeds show that the ground floor flat owns the garden. The middle and top floor flats have access via the side and has their own access path. The ground floor flat has access to their property from the front and has their own path leading from the street to the flat.
The ground floor flat has now applied for permission to get the kerb dropped so they can park on their drive. This has to go through planning permission first due to it being a flat on a classified road.
I'm trying to find what valid reasons there could be for objecting to this planning permission, everything I read relates to houses and proposed developments such as extensions but in this case nothing is going to change except for a car being parked where it previously hasn't been.
As i said above, next door is a mirror image so the garden and layout is exactly the same so i'm wondering if the fact there will be a car on one side will effect the look of the building which will give a valid objection. There will be no change to the look of the property besides the fact there will be a car on one side and not the other.
The car will not be parked on an existing pathway, but the middle and top floor flats do use the garden as a short cut (they are aware the deeds show this to belong to the ground floor). So in theory should not block their access.
The car would not be blocking anyone's light, but would remove a parking space from outside the building (which is on a public road so not allocated to anyone in particular).
Is there anyone who had any experience of this that could think of any valid reasons for objecting to this application?
Thank you
Alucidnation said:
That's a good thing, shirley?
It means that you could also have off street parking if you applied.
Not if I was the owner of the middle and top floor flat as it’s only the ground floor which owns the garden. That’s the only possible space for a car to be parked.It means that you could also have off street parking if you applied.
I’m just really (and probably badly) trying to find out what reasonable objections there could be from neighbours in this situation. Would it be reasonable to say the top and middle floor neighbours don’t want to see or walk past a car in the front garden which doesn’t belong to them. (They would be walking past as their access path runs alongside the garden)
As joint freeholders, wouldn't the ground floor flat need the permission from the middle and top floor flat first?
So assuming they have this permission, the council could object if the entry/exit to the driveway is dangerous i.e. hidden/on a bend etc. You may have a reasonable objection if this removes an on street parking space and parking is already difficult.
So assuming they have this permission, the council could object if the entry/exit to the driveway is dangerous i.e. hidden/on a bend etc. You may have a reasonable objection if this removes an on street parking space and parking is already difficult.
Planning permission is only required for a vehicle access on a classified road, so highway safety is one of the main potential issues - reversing out onto a busy road for example,or too close to a junction.
If the car will be parked near a different flat's bedroom window then it could cause a disturbance, but if there is only one ground floor flat then that wouldn't be an issue.
If it would harm the appearance of the property with an ugly forecourt and removal of all landscaping then that could be a potential issue.
If the car will be parked near a different flat's bedroom window then it could cause a disturbance, but if there is only one ground floor flat then that wouldn't be an issue.
If it would harm the appearance of the property with an ugly forecourt and removal of all landscaping then that could be a potential issue.
Hub, yes it’s on a classified road but even if it wasn’t planning permission is still required as it’s a flat. But I’ve checked and this planning permission is required for this. I think what makes it so much harder to research is because nothing is going to change. If planning permission is granted and the kerb dropped all what will change is that a car can cross the pavement.
Car won’t be parked outside anyone’s bedroom window and no change will be made to the existing garden besides having a car parked where it hasn’t been previously. When the car is not there it would be as though nothing has changed.
Car won’t be parked outside anyone’s bedroom window and no change will be made to the existing garden besides having a car parked where it hasn’t been previously. When the car is not there it would be as though nothing has changed.
If it is a classified road then you need to be able to drive in and then drive out nose first, if the space available does not allow a car to be able to manoeuvre in order to do such then highways will object and planning probably refused anyway as a result.
All other matters are legal between the parties not planning issues.
All other matters are legal between the parties not planning issues.
Paul, are you sure? I don’t mean to question you (and you are most probably correct) but there are other dropped kerbs down the road which have a much smaller drive and would not be able to turn as you said. Also, there is nothing on the council website which states this, so would seem a bit unfair to allow us to apply and pay the fees if there is no chance it would have ever been approved due to having to drive in and our nose first.
Past results are not a guarantee of future performance so they say! just because others have got away with it in the past does not set any precedent.
I can only comment on my dealings with my LA, but the highways authority here insist on such for all classified roads.
I even had a battle with them when I put in a new drive on a country lane, it had no classification, and was covered by permitted development, but they tried to claim that "unclassified" was actually a classification! (you could not make it up, people on here wonder why I have no respect for the planning system) they tried to bully me into submitting a retrospective planning application.
Needless to say they gave up in the end.
You have two issues if it is a classified road
First is you need planning permission and second is highways approving such, and then having to use one of their approved contractors to charge a fortune to do a simple job.
You can apply for planning even if you don't own the land the drive will be on, but obviously the leaseholders could take legal action regardless if you try to do the work even if approved by the LA and Highways.
I can only comment on my dealings with my LA, but the highways authority here insist on such for all classified roads.
I even had a battle with them when I put in a new drive on a country lane, it had no classification, and was covered by permitted development, but they tried to claim that "unclassified" was actually a classification! (you could not make it up, people on here wonder why I have no respect for the planning system) they tried to bully me into submitting a retrospective planning application.
Needless to say they gave up in the end.
You have two issues if it is a classified road
First is you need planning permission and second is highways approving such, and then having to use one of their approved contractors to charge a fortune to do a simple job.
You can apply for planning even if you don't own the land the drive will be on, but obviously the leaseholders could take legal action regardless if you try to do the work even if approved by the LA and Highways.
Edited by PAUL500 on Saturday 23 June 13:17
Thanks Paul. This is all alien to me.
Might need to look into the legal side of things if we get the planning permission. Wouldn’t want to annoy the other freeholders (they don’t live there though, the properties are rented out). But the land registery does show that the garden is part of our property so I’m trying to understand why anyone can tell us what we can and can’t do with it.
Was just really trying to get an understanding of why they would object and for what reasons could be “reasonable”. I will be annoyed if the council reject because we can’t drive in and out nose first. I’ve spoken to them and looked at what they have put on their website and nothing states that the drive needs to be big enough to turn round if it’s a classified road.
Might need to look into the legal side of things if we get the planning permission. Wouldn’t want to annoy the other freeholders (they don’t live there though, the properties are rented out). But the land registery does show that the garden is part of our property so I’m trying to understand why anyone can tell us what we can and can’t do with it.
Was just really trying to get an understanding of why they would object and for what reasons could be “reasonable”. I will be annoyed if the council reject because we can’t drive in and out nose first. I’ve spoken to them and looked at what they have put on their website and nothing states that the drive needs to be big enough to turn round if it’s a classified road.
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