SECTION 184 HIGHWAYS ACT 1980- DRIVING OVER A FOOTWAY .
Discussion
Friends /Romans/ legal gents, lend me your ears. Recently a few of us locally have received a letter ,where it's ALLEGED that we drive over pavement ,not constructed to allow vehicles to cross, and the above act is quoted. I've had a visit from our local county Councillor, where her reasoning was that unless unless my car parked on pavement prevented access, where a passer by ( eg a pram etc) had to move onto the road , then no breach of law existed.
Can ANY of our learned friends comment on this and give Law chapter & verse on the allegations made by our local highways department ,that an offense exists.
Can ANY of our learned friends comment on this and give Law chapter & verse on the allegations made by our local highways department ,that an offense exists.
The Highway Code is only guidance. Always go to the relevant legislation.
It is only that which determines what offence, if any, has been committed.
It does not prohibit anything, nor does it create an offence. Sounds to me like the department is talking out of its bureaucratic a**e.
The prohibition of riding/driving on a footway is found in Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835.
AFAIK it is permissible to cross it to gain lawful access to an adjacent property, or in an emergency.
The LA would probably prefer you didn't regularly cross a raised kerb/pavement due to the possibility of damage thereto.
Hence the powers granted it under Section 184.
Have a look at this - researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01170/SN01170.pdf
I assume you're not in London where there is a long-standing ban on pavement parking (except where specifically allowed by signs like this).
It is only that which determines what offence, if any, has been committed.
Who me said:
Recently a few of us locally have received a letter ,where it's ALLEGED that we drive over pavement ,not constructed to allow vehicles to cross, and the above act is quoted.
Section 184 refers to the LA's powers to construct a vehicle crossing over a footway or verge.It does not prohibit anything, nor does it create an offence. Sounds to me like the department is talking out of its bureaucratic a**e.
The prohibition of riding/driving on a footway is found in Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835.
AFAIK it is permissible to cross it to gain lawful access to an adjacent property, or in an emergency.
The LA would probably prefer you didn't regularly cross a raised kerb/pavement due to the possibility of damage thereto.
Hence the powers granted it under Section 184.
Have a look at this - researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01170/SN01170.pdf
I assume you're not in London where there is a long-standing ban on pavement parking (except where specifically allowed by signs like this).
Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 20th June 07:54
Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 20th June 07:58
Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 20th June 08:00
In the definitions at the beginning of the highways act, the carriageway is for the passage and repassage of vehicles, whereas the footway is for pedestrian traffic. Obstruction of the footway, that prevents a couple of prams passing, is a potential offence.
Perhaps it would have been more simple to state the obvious, do not park on the footway, do not obstruct the carriageway, do park in your driveway / garage
You would not buy a dishwasher if you did not have space in your kitchen. The same logic should be applied to cars, but is not.
Perhaps it would have been more simple to state the obvious, do not park on the footway, do not obstruct the carriageway, do park in your driveway / garage
You would not buy a dishwasher if you did not have space in your kitchen. The same logic should be applied to cars, but is not.
rdjohn said:
In the definitions at the beginning of the highways act, the carriageway is for the passage and repassage of vehicles, whereas the footway is for pedestrian traffic. Obstruction of the footway, that prevents a couple of prams passing, is a potential offence.
Quite, but the potential obstruction offence is a matter for the police, not the LA's Highways Department.Assuming of course that there is no yellow paint involved.
Interestingly, even if there is, several (largely rural) LAs still don't have CPE powers.
Most notably in East Sussex, Oxfordshire, and East Anglia.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
No 'parking n***s' there.
Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 20th June 08:37
Correct, RD. Road is extremely narrow, as housed were built circa 1938, and there's rumours of WW2 GERMAN POW building the road . As a result of "parking wars" in another part of the road, those of us who converted our front garden into parking spaces and gave up at the shock of the cost of a "properly constructed vehicle access over the footway" have recieved correspondence alleging to the "illegal crossing of a footpath without a properly constructed access" and violation of section 184 has been quoted.I've tried to get a disabled space to be told that road is too narrow
For years , a few residents have been trying to get the County to reduce the pavement width to provide parking for vehicles so that EV can pass. With the County getting nasty, I've asked my County Councillor to help. Her interpretation of the above act is that it only applies if I park wholly on the pavement and block it. My question is simply, if legal gents can help- WHAT DOES THIS SECTION SAY.
For years , a few residents have been trying to get the County to reduce the pavement width to provide parking for vehicles so that EV can pass. With the County getting nasty, I've asked my County Councillor to help. Her interpretation of the above act is that it only applies if I park wholly on the pavement and block it. My question is simply, if legal gents can help- WHAT DOES THIS SECTION SAY.
It says a whole bunch of stuff.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
Presumably they've sent you a notice under either 1(a) that they're going to rebuild the footway so that it is suitable for you to cross it (and then recover the cost of doing so from you) or a notice under 1(b) imposing conditions on your use of it?
Does the letter they've sent not say anything helpful? It won't just say "you've been crossing a footway that's not designed to be crossed" but presumably what they intend to do about it.
Or does it say they've already imposed conditions under 1(b) and they're fining you under 17 for breaching them?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
Presumably they've sent you a notice under either 1(a) that they're going to rebuild the footway so that it is suitable for you to cross it (and then recover the cost of doing so from you) or a notice under 1(b) imposing conditions on your use of it?
Does the letter they've sent not say anything helpful? It won't just say "you've been crossing a footway that's not designed to be crossed" but presumably what they intend to do about it.
Or does it say they've already imposed conditions under 1(b) and they're fining you under 17 for breaching them?
Pretty sure you can’t just convert your garden to parking then drive up the kerb when you feel like using it , you would need to apply for a drop kerb and pay for it ! There might be good reason why they might not approve one. And as you probably know it’s not cheap. some one near me has decided to do exactly this , got into a battle with the council and basically ignored all requests not to park there. In the end they concreted in bollards outside his house so it’s impossible to park there ! Game over !!!
Who me said:
Correct, RD. Road is extremely narrow, as housed were built circa 1938, and there's rumours of WW2 GERMAN POW building the road . As a result of "parking wars" in another part of the road, those of us who converted our front garden into parking spaces and gave up at the shock of the cost of a "properly constructed vehicle access over the footway" have recieved correspondence alleging to the "illegal crossing of a footpath without a properly constructed access" and violation of section 184 has been quoted.I've tried to get a disabled space to be told that road is too narrow
For years , a few residents have been trying to get the County to reduce the pavement width to provide parking for vehicles so that EV can pass. With the County getting nasty, I've asked my County Councillor to help. Her interpretation of the above act is that it only applies if I park wholly on the pavement and block it. My question is simply, if legal gents can help- WHAT DOES THIS SECTION SAY.
What exactly are you asking your County Councillor for help with.? Reducing the pavement width so that you can park on street or getting a dropped kerb put in?For years , a few residents have been trying to get the County to reduce the pavement width to provide parking for vehicles so that EV can pass. With the County getting nasty, I've asked my County Councillor to help. Her interpretation of the above act is that it only applies if I park wholly on the pavement and block it. My question is simply, if legal gents can help- WHAT DOES THIS SECTION SAY.
These are two different solutions to your problem but need to be kept separate to avoid everyone involved becoming thoroughly confused (see below).
If your Councillor's response is in respect of the pavement narrowing/reconstruction issue, its a fudge.
If the Council isn't interested in doing this, what she is really saying is she won't/can't help you and the other residents to change its mind.
Parking on the pavement is an offence in London (other places may have local byelaws, but there is no statutory blanket prohibition ouside the capital).
The police might still 'do' you for obstruction though - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Usually they are too busy with other priorities.
To get back to your question. Section 184 has nothing to do with parking on the pavement.
Your Councillor is conflating two very different things (crossing and parking on). IOW she is confused and talking out of her a**e.
The Highways Department is referring to Section 184(17) which creates the offence. It then leads back to Section 184(1)(b).
The 'reasonable conditions' will be the provision of a dropped kerb - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
You say above that you balked at the cost of providing one and gave up. You can't have your cake and eat it I'm afraid.
In the meantime, you may find these links of interest.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.ph...
https://www.buyaplan.co.uk/blog/posts/89-10-tips-f...
http://www.wilsham.co.uk/dropped-kerb-law-and-drop...
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/kerbdropping#refused
Yes it's an offence to drive on the footway. The raised kerb is delineation between footway and carriageway. A dropped vehicle access is the only way you can (legally) cross a footway with a car. In getting a drop kerb (aka vehicle access) installed, you agree to Ts and Cs in agreement with the "Highway Authority", a statutory body (usually the County Council) in the area you live who have the power to permit the crossing of a footway.
In my area, these are the Ts and Cs you sign up to: http://www.essexhighways.org/for-residents/vehicle...
OP what area are you in?
In my area, these are the Ts and Cs you sign up to: http://www.essexhighways.org/for-residents/vehicle...
OP what area are you in?
[quote=Who me ?]those of us who converted our front garden into parking spaces and gave up at the shock of the cost of a "properly constructed vehicle access over the footway" have recieved correspondence alleging to the "illegal crossing of a footpath without a properly constructed access" and violation of section 184 has been quoted.
[/quote]
Yeah you need to stop behaving like a bell end and stump up the cash.
You'll soon be moaning when your house floods when the drain that might be under the footpath collapses and blocks.
[/quote]
Yeah you need to stop behaving like a bell end and stump up the cash.
You'll soon be moaning when your house floods when the drain that might be under the footpath collapses and blocks.
Car-Matt said:
Did anyone who converted their garden to parking (using paving or tarmac) apply for the relevant planning permission to convert natural soak away to hard standing?
Don't need it - if you are likely to flood your own house, then it's your problem. If a 2.5m x 5m parking bay is going to cause that much additional water run-off to create a flood risk, then your house has bigger problems than just a lack of parking! Edited by Car-Matt on Thursday 21st June 14:00
Foliage said:
Who me said:
those of us who converted our front garden into parking spaces and gave up at the shock of the cost of a "properly constructed vehicle access over the footway" have recieved correspondence alleging to the "illegal crossing of a footpath without a properly constructed access" and violation of section 184 has been quoted.
Yeah you need to stop behaving like a bell end and stump up the cash. You'll soon be moaning when your house floods when the drain that might be under the footpath collapses and blocks.
Yes the drain may collapse. Also, there could be damage to BT/gas/electric plant, and the bill for those works will make a drop kerb installation price look like sweety money.
Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 21st June 14:59
OpulentBob said:
Don't need it - if you are likely to flood your own house, then it's your problem. If a 2.5m x 5m parking bay is going to cause that much additional water run-off to create a flood risk, then your house has bigger problems than just a lack of parking!
If you are changing previously porous land to a non porous hardstanding such as a front garden to park on then I’m afraid you do need planning permission if it’s more than 5sqm https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/commo...
Car-Matt said:
OpulentBob said:
Don't need it - if you are likely to flood your own house, then it's your problem. If a 2.5m x 5m parking bay is going to cause that much additional water run-off to create a flood risk, then your house has bigger problems than just a lack of parking!
If you are changing previously porous land to a non porous hardstanding such as a front garden to park on then I’m afraid you do need planning permission if it’s more than 5sqm https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/commo...
I own 2 properties that are next door but one from each other in South Bucks that never had off street parking or dropped curbs.
I wanted to add a dropped curb to one and when I had the approved contractor out, he said that it wouldn’t be much more expensive to do the 2 rather than just the one. From memory, the extra one cost less than £500 to add to the mix.
Planning app was not required, but we did get certificate of lawfulness (I think it’s called).
Really efficient process and great end result.
What I suggest you do is everyone who has this issue, join forces and it’ll reduce the costs dramatically.
I wanted to add a dropped curb to one and when I had the approved contractor out, he said that it wouldn’t be much more expensive to do the 2 rather than just the one. From memory, the extra one cost less than £500 to add to the mix.
Planning app was not required, but we did get certificate of lawfulness (I think it’s called).
Really efficient process and great end result.
What I suggest you do is everyone who has this issue, join forces and it’ll reduce the costs dramatically.
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