Get out of First Class, I'm having 2 seats

Get out of First Class, I'm having 2 seats

Author
Discussion

popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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egor110 said:
how do you work out he's small from that ?
That was a shot in the dark - I notice he's not denying it though.

seawise

2,144 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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The reason people who pay the considerable premium for a first class season ticket (or daily) generally (on commuter services in and out of London) is to give a better than average chance of a seat. I do it with a view that a seat twice a day 5 days a week for the majority of the year on a 50 minute journey is worth the cost of a holiday. Now if someone who has not paid the premium then denies someone who has, rightly i would be quite pissed off and vocal. Just because the train is busy does not warrant a declassification of the first class areas. Now if after the last stop in bound before the train runs fast to London someone without a valid ticket wants to take an empty first class seat i have no objection. Unless they smell, when they can F right off.

Captain Smerc

3,015 posts

115 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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Far more likely to get a seat. Much quieter. Generally very nice, polite people. In my (limited) experience anyway. Last travelled down to London by First two weeks ago and it was very pleasant. On the return both cattle and First were full and there was attempted overspill into standing room from cattle - swiftly dealt with by staff. If I'm not travelling at peak periods I take cattle everytime as it's better value if booked enough in advance. I'll offer a pregnant lady or older woman/man my seat on a bus or even on a train, but I'm fked if I'll be happy with non payers enjoying First for free unless there's a medical reason.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
seawise said:
The reason people who pay the considerable premium for a first class season ticket (or daily) generally (on commuter services in and out of London) is to give a better than average chance of a seat. I do it with a view that a seat twice a day 5 days a week for the majority of the year on a 50 minute journey is worth the cost of a holiday. Now if someone who has not paid the premium then denies someone who has, rightly i would be quite pissed off and vocal. Just because the train is busy does not warrant a declassification of the first class areas. Now if after the last stop in bound before the train runs fast to London someone without a valid ticket wants to take an empty first class seat i have no objection. Unless they smell, when they can F right off.
No i'd agree with that , but if there are vacant seats in 1st , none in standard then i'd have no problem sitting in 1st until someone with a 1st class ticket came to claim the seat .

In my experience to date 1st class ticket holders are a little bit shouty but once they realise your not moving they return to there seat and sulk,.

popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
egor110 said:
seawise said:
The reason people who pay the considerable premium for a first class season ticket (or daily) generally (on commuter services in and out of London) is to give a better than average chance of a seat. I do it with a view that a seat twice a day 5 days a week for the majority of the year on a 50 minute journey is worth the cost of a holiday. Now if someone who has not paid the premium then denies someone who has, rightly i would be quite pissed off and vocal. Just because the train is busy does not warrant a declassification of the first class areas. Now if after the last stop in bound before the train runs fast to London someone without a valid ticket wants to take an empty first class seat i have no objection. Unless they smell, when they can F right off.
No i'd agree with that , but if there are vacant seats in 1st , none in standard then i'd have no problem sitting in 1st until someone with a 1st class ticket came to claim the seat .

In my experience to date 1st class ticket holders are a little bit shouty but once they realise your not moving they return to there seat and sulk,.
The First Class carriages I've been on have conductors constantly coming and going, drinks, check tickets etc. If you managed to avoid them I'd have no qualms reporting you. Unless of course you fully intend paying for your upgraded seat ?

Zippee

13,442 posts

233 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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popeyewhite said:
egor110 said:
seawise said:
The reason people who pay the considerable premium for a first class season ticket (or daily) generally (on commuter services in and out of London) is to give a better than average chance of a seat. I do it with a view that a seat twice a day 5 days a week for the majority of the year on a 50 minute journey is worth the cost of a holiday. Now if someone who has not paid the premium then denies someone who has, rightly i would be quite pissed off and vocal. Just because the train is busy does not warrant a declassification of the first class areas. Now if after the last stop in bound before the train runs fast to London someone without a valid ticket wants to take an empty first class seat i have no objection. Unless they smell, when they can F right off.
No i'd agree with that , but if there are vacant seats in 1st , none in standard then i'd have no problem sitting in 1st until someone with a 1st class ticket came to claim the seat .

In my experience to date 1st class ticket holders are a little bit shouty but once they realise your not moving they return to there seat and sulk,.
The First Class carriages I've been on have conductors constantly coming and going, drinks, check tickets etc. If you managed to avoid them I'd have no qualms reporting you. Unless of course you fully intend paying for your upgraded seat ?
We're talking totally different levels of 1st class here, (PS I'm not small - more a 15st fattie). The local services are around 16 seats that barely look different ot normal.
I'd say you're talking about inter city type seats with the service and freebies that go with.

popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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Zippee said:
We're talking totally different levels of 1st class here, (PS I'm not small - more a 15st fattie). The local services are around 16 seats that barely look different ot normal.
I'd say you're talking about inter city type seats with the service and freebies that go with.
Yes, I am. I didn't realise there were varying levels. If I travel First it's MAN - LON intercity, so Eggs Benedict etc. 15st isn't fat. I'm 16 rofl Touche.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
egor110 said:
seawise said:
The reason people who pay the considerable premium for a first class season ticket (or daily) generally (on commuter services in and out of London) is to give a better than average chance of a seat. I do it with a view that a seat twice a day 5 days a week for the majority of the year on a 50 minute journey is worth the cost of a holiday. Now if someone who has not paid the premium then denies someone who has, rightly i would be quite pissed off and vocal. Just because the train is busy does not warrant a declassification of the first class areas. Now if after the last stop in bound before the train runs fast to London someone without a valid ticket wants to take an empty first class seat i have no objection. Unless they smell, when they can F right off.
No i'd agree with that , but if there are vacant seats in 1st , none in standard then i'd have no problem sitting in 1st until someone with a 1st class ticket came to claim the seat .

In my experience to date 1st class ticket holders are a little bit shouty but once they realise your not moving they return to there seat and sulk,.
The First Class carriages I've been on have conductors constantly coming and going, drinks, check tickets etc. If you managed to avoid them I'd have no qualms reporting you. Unless of course you fully intend paying for your upgraded seat ?
When cattle class is rammed full , your conductor won't fight your fight .

popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
egor110 said:
When cattle class is rammed full , your conductor won't fight your fight .
They have, so far in my experience, been quite surprisingly abrupt and authoritative with any interlopers into First. Maybe on the criminally busy commuting runs in and out of the capital they turn more of a blind eye though.

rs1952

5,247 posts

258 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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popeyewhite said:
egor110 said:
When cattle class is rammed full , your conductor won't fight your fight .
They have, so far in my experience, been quite surprisingly abrupt and authoritative with any interlopers into First. Maybe on the criminally busy commuting runs in and out of the capital they turn more of a blind eye though.
It will depend on the individual circumstances on the day and also (possibly) the demeanour of the Train Manager.

A couple of years ago I ended up at Newquay, and came back to civilisation on the 1510 through train to Paddington as far as Westbury, formed of a full 8-car HST. Unbeknown to me until I turned up for the train, there had been some sort of surfing bunfight at Newquay that weekend and the platform approach (I don't think "concourse" is the right word to use for what's left of Newquay station) was twelve deep in teenagers and twenty-somethings all going home after the fun.

There was standing room only before the train left its starting point and, at Par, it picked up another load of passengers that had come up from further west on the booked connection. Things only got worse as it went further east, especially after we left Plymouth.

The guard/ train manager/ whatever we're calling them this week did his best. He was telling people to go and stand in first class because there wasn't a lot of spare air, let alone spare space, down the back end. (Incidentally, there weren't any empty seats in first class either).

heebeegeetee

28,596 posts

247 months

Friday 13th July 2018
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
The First Class carriages I've been on have conductors constantly coming and going, drinks, check tickets etc. If you managed to avoid them I'd have no qualms reporting you. Unless of course you fully intend paying for your upgraded seat ?
In this case the person who complained and was kicking passengers out hadn't paid for his ticket, it's a perk of his job, whereas the passengers he was kicking out had paid. In the majority of cases the passengers are paying many thousands of pounds per year for no seating and to be "just" six minutes late, etc.

48k

12,983 posts

147 months

Friday 13th July 2018
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popeyewhite said:
Yes, I am. I didn't realise there were varying levels. If I travel First it's MAN - LON intercity, so Eggs Benedict etc. 15st isn't fat. I'm 16 rofl Touche.
This is the key point. IMO suburban train services shouldn't need first class compartments.

Also worth pointing out to the "train company should provide me an equivalent seat if a standard sear is not available" mob that your ticket does not actually entitle you to a seat if you read the T&Cs.

irocfan

40,153 posts

189 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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Zippee said:
Really not sure why you have to refer to it as cattle class either - makes you sound like a snobby twunt who thinks he's better than everyone else.
TBF I've always referred to it as cattle-class, and I've never bought a 1st class ticket. It's more a comment on how the rail companies treat the majority of their paying customers.



WRT to twunt features in 1st - I wonder, did he pay extra for his bag to be on a 1st class seat?

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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48k said:
This is the key point. IMO suburban train services shouldn't need first class compartments.

Also worth pointing out to the "train company should provide me an equivalent seat if a standard sear is not available" mob that your ticket does not actually entitle you to a seat if you read the T&Cs.
As to your first point, therein lies some of the problem - many of the trains on suburban services are also used, for example, on services between London and Kings Lynn (and if they ever sort the timetables out, Brighton and Cambridge). That's a fairly long haul, and not unreasonable to expect first class accommodation to be available. Of course, with the trains that have just been introduced (procured by the DfT, not the train company), they are declassifying by stealth - other than a table and a powerpoint (available in cattle class on the older trains), and an antimacassar, First Class is the same - still the same phenomenally uncomfortable, thinly padded seats, still 4 abreast seating, still crap legroom.

As to your second point - exactly!

bakerstreet

4,755 posts

164 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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Countdown said:
"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.
The train company are not obliged to provide passengers with a seat. If you want a guaranteed seat, then pay for first class or get earlier trains that aren't as busy (This is what I do) It really is that simple.



egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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bakerstreet said:
Countdown said:
"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.
The train company are not obliged to provide passengers with a seat. If you want a guaranteed seat, then pay for first class or get earlier trains that aren't as busy (This is what I do) It really is that simple.

Apart from when they cancel trains so you end up having double the passengers on the next one , you can kiss goodbye to the guard looking after you in 1st class when that happens.