The best 40 to 50ft Yacht

[pequod]

The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?

All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?

No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?

[CarbonXKR]

pequod said:

The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?

All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?

No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?

We live in Orkney, the wife used to go to the creels with her brother to earn pocket money and skippered the boat around some serious tidal/weather conditions without hesitation. Shes up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.
I will be giving her the "graveyard" watch though, not sure of her thoughts on that …..

[SimonTheSailor]

XJSJohn said:

Amels are fantastic RTW'ers but there are multiple examples of most production cruisers and even cruiser racers off sailing around the world very successfully and very happily, it just depends on the extremes you are going to go to, and the level of risk you are comfortable with.

There are several FB groups for cruisers with lots of info, and unsurprisingly lots of opinions, and as we all know, everyone has opinions, they all also have aholes ...

We noticed so few that every time we saw a Bavaria or Beneteau (sp?)
we were like -'WTF ? That's a brave chap !'

But yes, they can make it, I'm just not sure many do it in them.

[pequod]

CarbonXKR said:

pequod said:

The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?

All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?

No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?

We live in Orkney, the wife used to go to the creels with her brother to earn pocket money and skippered the boat around some serious tidal/weather conditions without hesitation. Shes up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.
I will be giving her the "graveyard" watch though, not sure of her thoughts on that …..

Inshore experience is great, particularly with serious tidal/weather conditions but this is not the same as sailing offshore for days/weeks and the different challenges that it presents.

In my experience, a good crew when sailing offshore who can stand watch (4 on/4 off, day and night), prepare meals, and generally accept that living in a floating box of tricks is not always a glamorous lifestyle, is the key over and above what boat you are sailing. Saying that, a storm tossed night or 5 in the middle of an ocean will test even the best of us and that lightweight coastal 'bargain' may or may not look after you and the VIP!

It's all my opinion, of course, and everyone who ventures offshore needs to assess their own competence/depth of pocket but only you can determine that and your choice of boat.

P

[Castrol for a knave]

pequod said:

CarbonXKR said:

pequod said:

The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?

All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?

No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?

We live in Orkney, the wife used to go to the creels with her brother to earn pocket money and skippered the boat around some serious tidal/weather conditions without hesitation. Shes up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.
I will be giving her the "graveyard" watch though, not sure of her thoughts on that …..

Inshore experience is great, particularly with serious tidal/weather conditions but this is not the same as sailing offshore for days/weeks and the different challenges that it presents.

In my experience, a good crew when sailing offshore who can stand watch (4 on/4 off, day and night), prepare meals, and generally accept that living in a floating box of tricks is not always a glamorous lifestyle, is the key over and above what boat you are sailing. Saying that, a storm tossed night or 5 in the middle of an ocean will test even the best of us and that lightweight coastal 'bargain' may or may not look after you and the VIP!

It's all my opinion, of course, and everyone who ventures offshore needs to assess their own competence/depth of pocket but only you can determine that and your choice of boat.

P

What he said. Inshore is very different to days of rotating watches, wet pants and trying to sleep in a pilot berth. Add to the need to have someone on nav, across watches - it's character building.

I guess it is a question of going for a modern boat, 40.4 or 44.4 or such, built to a price and probably a touch light or an older boat and accepting you might have to spend a bit. Some of the older French kit is actually heavily built - even a 30 yr old Sun Fizz can be made into a decent offshore cruiser.

There is a Salona on Boatshed at the moment - basically a heavier Elan - nice boat.

A Maxi maybe or to be honest, some of the more esoteric Swedish / Danish brands are worth a look - solid build and heavily laid up with a good keel and most are keel stepped (I know this is not the be all and end all and mast glands can be fun....). The Oceanlord is still a good and very safe boat - I know plenty that have gone bluewater.

I had a Murray 42 - massive rig, running back stays and twin wheel. One down from a Humphries washing machine. Great fun but maybe not offshore, with the wife...If anyone knew Predator from the Solent circuit, that'd me me.

[pequod]

Castrol for a knave said:

pequod said:

CarbonXKR said:

pequod said:

The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?

All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?

No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?

We live in Orkney, the wife used to go to the creels with her brother to earn pocket money and skippered the boat around some serious tidal/weather conditions without hesitation. Shes up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.
I will be giving her the "graveyard" watch though, not sure of her thoughts on that …..

Inshore experience is great, particularly with serious tidal/weather conditions but this is not the same as sailing offshore for days/weeks and the different challenges that it presents.

In my experience, a good crew when sailing offshore who can stand watch (4 on/4 off, day and night), prepare meals, and generally accept that living in a floating box of tricks is not always a glamorous lifestyle, is the key over and above what boat you are sailing. Saying that, a storm tossed night or 5 in the middle of an ocean will test even the best of us and that lightweight coastal 'bargain' may or may not look after you and the VIP!

It's all my opinion, of course, and everyone who ventures offshore needs to assess their own competence/depth of pocket but only you can determine that and your choice of boat.

P

What he said. Inshore is very different to days of rotating watches, wet pants and trying to sleep in a pilot berth. Add to the need to have someone on nav, across watches - it's character building.

I guess it is a question of going for a modern boat, 40.4 or 44.4 or such, built to a price and probably a touch light or an older boat and accepting you might have to spend a bit. Some of the older French kit is actually heavily built - even a 30 yr old Sun Fizz can be made into a decent offshore cruiser.

There is a Salona on Boatshed at the moment - basically a heavier Elan - nice boat.

A Maxi maybe or to be honest, some of the more esoteric Swedish / Danish brands are worth a look - solid build and heavily laid up with a good keel and most are keel stepped (I know this is not the be all and end all and mast glands can be fun....). The Oceanlord is still a good and very safe boat - I know plenty that have gone bluewater.

I had a Murray 42 - massive rig, running back stays and twin wheel. One down from a Humphries washing machine. Great fun but maybe not offshore, with the wife...If anyone knew Predator from the Solent circuit, that'd me me.

I also wouldn't dismiss one of these either!

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1984/nauticat-4...

[Steve_D]

CarbonXKR said:

.............. She's up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.…..

Well that rules out the ocean crossings as you will be out there for days/weeks in whatever weather is thrown at you.

In which case your initial choice of boat could work well enough without having to seek out higher spec craft.

Steve

[XJSJohn]

CarbonXKR said:

XJSJohn said:

lots of Q's for that, some already asked.

for ocean crossings or coastal cruising?

where, staying in northern europe? The med? the carribean? south pacific? SE Asia? round the world?

would you be staying in warmer latitudes or be interested in cruising the upper ends of the globe?

just you and your spouse or would you be looking for other crew?

does your budget / lifestyle dream involve spending significant time in marina's or anchored off in remote locations?

what is your sailing experience?

what is your maintenance experience (fibreglass, wood, steel, engines, rigging, electrics etc)

what additional budget do you have for fit-out?


remember - BOAT - bring out another thousand.

for ocean crossings or coastal cruising?

Bit of both depending on the health come retirement. It's pretty good just now but you never know...

where, staying in northern europe? The med? the carribean? south pacific? SE Asia? round the world?

Canaries, Cabo Verde, Carribean...

would you be staying in warmer latitudes or be interested in cruising the upper ends of the globe?

Would likely stick to warmer climes

just you and your spouse or would you be looking for other crew?

Me and the missus....

does your budget / lifestyle dream involve spending significant time in marina's or anchored off in remote locations?

Anchored rather than marinas...

what is your sailing experience?

20 years skipper of various size fishing boats up to 26m, sailing not so much....

what is your maintenance experience (fibreglass, wood, steel, engines, rigging, electrics etc)

Engines, electrics general maintenance all okay. Have Class 2 Fishing engineering and lots of own maintenance....

what additional budget do you have for fit-out?

£10 - 20k

from what you have suggested there, perhaps skip the canaries, and buy something already in the Caribbean, lots of good options there, many are already set up having got themselves there so saves you some effort. This will get some people spitting, but if you will be actively looking for the good weather window's and SWMBO doesnt want to spend extended periods of time offshore a catamaran could be an option. although getting tight on the budget for a nice one

on the "anchored off" rather than marinas part, that then means you need plenty of solar power, perhaps a genset and definitely fuel tanks for teh engine. a watermaker may be something to consider also.

if sticking to the more tropical latitudes, you want a boat with good through ventilation, and teh ability to rig lots of sun awnings - through drafts and keeping sun off the deck are your comfort objectives here.

experience wise, sounds like you probably have more than me when it comes to applied common sense, the WAFI bit is just pulling string in the right order, seamanship is teh same whatever you are on.

Also sounds like you are more than handy enough for teh running maintenance to save a few bob, can also make a bit of pocket money as you travel as other cruisers are often looking for people with skills

You will notice i am not suggesting any specific boats, from my experience of doing these exercises at the club bar over the years, you need to start with a wish list of what you want to do, then start cross referring it against what is feasible for all involved, and for teh budget, as you wash through this process you start to build a bit of a requirements list, and that will show you a set of boats that meet needs and budget, then you come and ask us idiots, which of these 3 boats etc etc

this idiot will be here to bounce ideas about as will all the others i am sure

[NickCQ]

XJSJohn said:

anchored off ... genset

Just what every peaceful anchorage needs

[CarbonXKR]

XJSJohn said:

from what you have suggested there, perhaps skip the canaries, and buy something already in the Caribbean, lots of good options there, many are already set up having got themselves there so saves you some effort. This will get some people spitting, but if you will be actively looking for the good weather window's and SWMBO doesnt want to spend extended periods of time offshore a catamaran could be an option. although getting tight on the budget for a nice one

on the "anchored off" rather than marinas part, that then means you need plenty of solar power, perhaps a genset and definitely fuel tanks for teh engine. a watermaker may be something to consider also.

if sticking to the more tropical latitudes, you want a boat with good through ventilation, and teh ability to rig lots of sun awnings - through drafts and keeping sun off the deck are your comfort objectives here.

experience wise, sounds like you probably have more than me when it comes to applied common sense, the WAFI bit is just pulling string in the right order, seamanship is teh same whatever you are on.

Also sounds like you are more than handy enough for teh running maintenance to save a few bob, can also make a bit of pocket money as you travel as other cruisers are often looking for people with skills

You will notice i am not suggesting any specific boats, from my experience of doing these exercises at the club bar over the years, you need to start with a wish list of what you want to do, then start cross referring it against what is feasible for all involved, and for teh budget, as you wash through this process you start to build a bit of a requirements list, and that will show you a set of boats that meet needs and budget, then you come and ask us idiots, which of these 3 boats etc etc

this idiot will be here to bounce ideas about as will all the others i am sure

Thanks for this John, most helpful and provides food for thought. It's a bit like our euro road trips, the drive through the UK to get to decent locations is long and tedious. Starting in the Caribbean sounds like an excellent idea - take in a holiday "boat viewing" would be the next step! And I wouldn't refer to you all as idiots, most helpful advice from all and has got the thought process going a bit faster.

[ecsrobin]

NickCQ said:

Just what every peaceful anchorage needs

You probably won’t notice them running even when onboard. Fischer Panda generators are all around 54db at max rpm.

[XJSJohn]

ecsrobin said:

NickCQ said:

Just what every peaceful anchorage needs

You probably won’t notice them running even when onboard. Fischer Panda generators are all around 54db at max rpm.

Exactly, a properly installed genset with insulation and a well placed exhaust is almost silent, you are thinking of a Honda pull cord jobbie on someone’s foredeck.

Remember of living aboard for extended periods, and wanting to be self sufficient, but still have some creature comforts (fridge / freezer, fans, maybe aircon, TV, nav, lights etc - all takes its toll) solar panels are great and can cover your needs, but not everyone wants 4sqm of solar panels around their boat, they also get bloody hot!

[XJSJohn]

CarbonXKR said:

XJSJohn said:

from what you have suggested there, perhaps skip the canaries, and buy something already in the Caribbean, lots of good options there, many are already set up having got themselves there so saves you some effort. This will get some people spitting, but if you will be actively looking for the good weather window's and SWMBO doesnt want to spend extended periods of time offshore a catamaran could be an option. although getting tight on the budget for a nice one

on the "anchored off" rather than marinas part, that then means you need plenty of solar power, perhaps a genset and definitely fuel tanks for teh engine. a watermaker may be something to consider also.

if sticking to the more tropical latitudes, you want a boat with good through ventilation, and teh ability to rig lots of sun awnings - through drafts and keeping sun off the deck are your comfort objectives here.

experience wise, sounds like you probably have more than me when it comes to applied common sense, the WAFI bit is just pulling string in the right order, seamanship is teh same whatever you are on.

Also sounds like you are more than handy enough for teh running maintenance to save a few bob, can also make a bit of pocket money as you travel as other cruisers are often looking for people with skills

You will notice i am not suggesting any specific boats, from my experience of doing these exercises at the club bar over the years, you need to start with a wish list of what you want to do, then start cross referring it against what is feasible for all involved, and for teh budget, as you wash through this process you start to build a bit of a requirements list, and that will show you a set of boats that meet needs and budget, then you come and ask us idiots, which of these 3 boats etc etc

this idiot will be here to bounce ideas about as will all the others i am sure

Thanks for this John, most helpful and provides food for thought. It's a bit like our euro road trips, the drive through the UK to get to decent locations is long and tedious. Starting in the Caribbean sounds like an excellent idea - take in a holiday "boat viewing" would be the next step! And I wouldn't refer to you all as idiots, most helpful advice from all and has got the thought process going a bit faster.

Please note, I am no expert, all I am giving is observations and bar talk from 15 years of living and weekend sailing in the sort of destination that you might be considering.

I know many cruisers and liveaboards out here, and most of them will be able to give you as many reasons why not to pick the same boat as them as will be able to give reasons for (they will all however love and rave their boats)

On the subject of the liveaboard cruisers, you can genuinely live month to month on very little if you are set up Well and happy on the hook most of the time and don’t need fillet steak, caviar and fine wines every night. Having said that, you do need a healthy contingency fund that is able to keep topping up from passive income (note, I didn’t call it a sinking fund)

Get an idea of what the followings might cost (parts usually pretty close worldwide, then labor varies)

New sails (say every 5 years)
New standing rigging (again every 5 years)
New running rigging (ongoing “how longs a piece of string”)
Engine service kits (annual)
Haul out and antifouling (annual / bi-annual)
Electronics upgrades (depends on preference)
Insurance (hull, rigging, contents, personal, indemnity)
Flights home from somewhere extremely exotic (absolute middle of fkin nowhere) for family emergencies

Edit - not supposed to be scary - the research and selection part is half the fun.

Ohh and FYI - personally I would avoid the Cyclades in general. Most were designed and spec’ed for the charter fleet, even if they weren’t chartered. This means they will have bunk space for 8 to 10 people, rather than living space for 2 plus a few guests occasionally. They also tend to have short rigs for the charter fleets, so less sail area, so slow and don’t actually sail well. (IMHO)

Edited by XJSJohn on Thursday 19th September 15:23

[Fastchas]

I know the MD of this company. Maybe these guys have something for you...

https://www.maiden-marine.co.uk/boats-for-sale/Use...

[alfaman]

Interesting discussion.

I’d second the point about considering a cat.

Also : boat age is a consideration ... I know several people out here in SE Asia who bought sturdy blue water 40+ footers ... from mid 80s to 90s vintage and have had some big bills for replacing or fixing major items / or bringing boat up to standard.

Eg : leaky fuel tank on a boat which was designed in a way that fuel tank not removable (french made from mid to late 80s)

and a 44 foot Ron Holland (1980s) .. where $200k was spent on top of purchase price to fix various things.

I know someone currently starting to sail their boat back to the UK via Indonesia - a 47 foot janeau sun odyssey from 1992.... seems to work well despite being a French plastic fantastic

Just dont buy anything like ‘cheeky rafiki’ a beneateau first 40 which had keel damage from hitting reefs, not repaired properly / damage hidden ... later sank in the Atlantic with the loss of all lives when the keel came off.

Edited by alfaman on Thursday 19th September 16:10

Edited by alfaman on Thursday 19th September 16:14

[CarbonXKR]

Fastchas said:

I know the MD of this company. Maybe these guys have something for you...

https://www.maiden-marine.co.uk/boats-for-sale/Use...

Thanks for this, I'm a bit away yet from retiring but good to see what's available and the different specs for the money...

[CarbonXKR]

pequod said:

I also wouldn't dismiss one of these either!

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1984/nauticat-4...

I like the look of that, good basic engine too based on Ford unit. I used to have a Lehman in my first creel boat - 37 ft clinker built, we were pioneers at the time heading all the way out West from Orkney to Sule Skerry and North Rona with a boat load of 260 creels to catch lobsters. Didn't know much about stability then, a good job we had plenty beam! A coolbox with Mince, stew and a hen and a bag of tatties and some UHT milk did us 10 days..... oh and Fray Bentos pies

[SimonTheSailor]

Hallberg Rassy - that's what I was trying to think of the other day.

And standing rigging - every 10 years surely ? Think that's what insurance companies require if you go off shore.

[Yacht Broker]

Take a look at my website (in my profile). Got a few options on there. Been selling blue water sailing yachts for over 20yrs so know a bit about it. Can also recommend a couple of other UK-based brokers who can give you good advice (I am UK-based but do most of my business overseas).

If you go for anything that was built outside of Europe, make sure you ask the right questions about CE compliancy or exemption otherwise you could be buying yourself unwittingly into a whole world of legal pain. Many brokers don't really know what constitutes exemption, so don't get rolled over.

Always happy to answer questions, irrespective of whether it involves me doing business. Just send me a mail via my website.

Best

[CarbonXKR]

Yacht Broker said:

Take a look at my website (in my profile). Got a few options on there. Been selling blue water sailing yachts for over 20yrs so know a bit about it. Can also recommend a couple of other UK-based brokers who can give you good advice (I am UK-based but do most of my business overseas).

If you go for anything that was built outside of Europe, make sure you ask the right questions about CE compliancy or exemption otherwise you could be buying yourself unwittingly into a whole world of legal pain. Many brokers don't really know what constitutes exemption, so don't get rolled over.

Always happy to answer questions, irrespective of whether it involves me doing business. Just send me a mail via my website.

Best

Thanks for that, will have a look