“Operational Reasons”

Author
Discussion

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
It was a joke, perhaps a weak one, based on the premise that by definition all reasons affecting an operation are operational.


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
geeks said:
PurpleTurtle said:
I was once on an EasyJet flight home from Cyprus, but the inbound plane had a blowout on landing.

They don’t carry a spare wheel, who knew!?

Despite the Captain coming to the departure gate personally, standing on a table so everyone could see/hear him and explaining in plain English “we’ve had a blow out, there is no spare, one is already on its way from Luton, but you are sadly not going home tonight, we will put you up in a hotel”, still people accused him of ‘lying’ about it.

I’ve never seen a piece of more honest corporate problem handling yet still some dicks had beef with him.
People are dicks, this is amplified when people are supposed to be on a plane.


OP, this isn't a pop at you. I got the question and the interest behind it.
I’ve had similar pretty much every time I’ve gone to speak to passengers about a delay. Made worse now because people start filming you also.

I’ve got colleagues that ask people to stop filming and if they don’t, they just apologise to the rest and say they’re not continuing as someone refuses to stop filming them.

The questions you usually get from a couple of passengers go along the lines of. .

“How do we know you’re telling the truth”
“How do we know it’s properly fixed?”
“You might just be saying it to get us on”
“Is this just a lie to avoid paying us compo”
“Will you be paying us compo”
“What if the engine breaks after we take off?”
Etc etc


After explaining the situation and still being accused of lying to get them onboard, I tend to ask why would pilots want to trick passengers to get on an unsafe aircraft?

99% of passengers are great and I enjoy interacting with them and they appreciate you coming into the terminal to talk to them face to face, but there’s always a couple that think they know it all and that everyone’s out to trick them.

I had one guy the other day asking all about a broken part in the aircraft. He was contradicting me and talking rubbish, I asked him if he had much experience of this aircraft. and he told me he did. . on flightsim. His poor wife was trying to shut him up but he wasn’t having it. Even after I showed him the relevant section in a technical manual, he made out that “it must have changed recently”










hutchst

3,696 posts

95 months

Monday 21st October 2019
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As they say where technical or weather problems arise, it's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here.

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
Remember the unpronounceable volcano eruption in 2010? That caused me two extra nights' stay in Naples, which was stressful as I missed a death & funeral at home

jamiem555

750 posts

210 months

Monday 21st October 2019
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surveyor said:
Might be nice to hear that we are just waiting for a mechanical defect to be repaired. We expect this to take an hour, but will update you if it looks like being longer.
I’m an aircraft engineer, although it’s offshore helicopters, the principle is the same. I never tell ops how long it will take. Not because we’re being difficult, it’s because genuinely you cannot predict how long it will take until it’s fully investigated and the parts replaced. If I gave a time I might not stick to that. It also puts undue pressure on engineers.

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
jamiem555 said:
I’m an aircraft engineer, although it’s offshore helicopters, the principle is the same. I never tell ops how long it will take. Not because we’re being difficult, it’s because genuinely you cannot predict how long it will take until it’s fully investigated and the parts replaced. If I gave a time I might not stick to that. It also puts undue pressure on engineers.
Do it right, to hell with how long it takes. smile

Tony1963

4,699 posts

161 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
What some people struggle to accept is that every form of travel has risks involved. We try to minimise the risks, and learn from mistakes, but in the end the fare paying passenger should start every journey knowing that there are many factors out of their control, and they might arrive late or not at all.

And as the posts above hint at, commercial time pressures have to be reduced as far as possible. If not, shortcuts and mistakes will be made. So trying to insist on a time that an aircraft will be made serviceable, because your journey is so important, is you asking to not arrive at all, except in a wet body bag.

jamiem555

750 posts

210 months

Monday 21st October 2019
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
jamiem555 said:
I’m an aircraft engineer, although it’s offshore helicopters, the principle is the same. I never tell ops how long it will take. Not because we’re being difficult, it’s because genuinely you cannot predict how long it will take until it’s fully investigated and the parts replaced. If I gave a time I might not stick to that. It also puts undue pressure on engineers.
Do it right, to hell with how long it takes. smile
Exactly! To answer the question, “When will it be ready?” When I’m finished.

MarkwG

4,812 posts

188 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2019
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jamiem555 said:
Exactly! To answer the question, “When will it be ready?” When I’m finished.
See also - "do you want it now, or right...?"

blueg33

35,585 posts

223 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2019
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My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.

4941cc

25,867 posts

205 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2019
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blueg33 said:
My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.
Speed tape. It's literally what it's for.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.
https://onemileatatime.com/duct-tape-airplane/

blueg33

35,585 posts

223 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
4941cc said:
blueg33 said:
My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.
Speed tape. It's literally what it's for.
Not confidence inspiring! Especially as he was having some grief actually making it stick

MarkwG

4,812 posts

188 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
4941cc said:
blueg33 said:
My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.
Speed tape. It's literally what it's for.
Not confidence inspiring! Especially as he was having some grief actually making it stick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape - does what it says on the tin wink

JuniorD

8,616 posts

222 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
blueg33 said:
4941cc said:
blueg33 said:
My least favourite “Operational Reasons” delay, meant I could look out of the window at an engineer sticking a bit of loose engine cover down with duck tape! The pilot then explained that there was an engine issue and an engineer was working on it.
Speed tape. It's literally what it's for.
Not confidence inspiring! Especially as he was having some grief actually making it stick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape - does what it says on the tin wink
I have loads of rolls of speed tape but I still haven't found a single useful alternative for it over the uses in the wiki article.

RWD cossie wil

4,295 posts

172 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
quotequote all
El stovey said:
geeks said:
PurpleTurtle said:
I was once on an EasyJet flight home from Cyprus, but the inbound plane had a blowout on landing.

They don’t carry a spare wheel, who knew!?

Despite the Captain coming to the departure gate personally, standing on a table so everyone could see/hear him and explaining in plain English “we’ve had a blow out, there is no spare, one is already on its way from Luton, but you are sadly not going home tonight, we will put you up in a hotel”, still people accused him of ‘lying’ about it.

I’ve never seen a piece of more honest corporate problem handling yet still some dicks had beef with him.
People are dicks, this is amplified when people are supposed to be on a plane.


OP, this isn't a pop at you. I got the question and the interest behind it.
I’ve had similar pretty much every time I’ve gone to speak to passengers about a delay. Made worse now because people start filming you also.

I’ve got colleagues that ask people to stop filming and if they don’t, they just apologise to the rest and say they’re not continuing as someone refuses to stop filming them.

The questions you usually get from a couple of passengers go along the lines of. .

“How do we know you’re telling the truth”
“How do we know it’s properly fixed?”
“You might just be saying it to get us on”
“Is this just a lie to avoid paying us compo”
“Will you be paying us compo”
“What if the engine breaks after we take off?”
Etc etc


After explaining the situation and still being accused of lying to get them onboard, I tend to ask why would pilots want to trick passengers to get on an unsafe aircraft?

99% of passengers are great and I enjoy interacting with them and they appreciate you coming into the terminal to talk to them face to face, but there’s always a couple that think they know it all and that everyone’s out to trick them.

I had one guy the other day asking all about a broken part in the aircraft. He was contradicting me and talking rubbish, I asked him if he had much experience of this aircraft. and he told me he did. . on flightsim. His poor wife was trying to shut him up but he wasn’t having it. Even after I showed him the relevant section in a technical manual, he made out that “it must have changed recently”
Being a B1/2 Engineer & PPL, it never ceases to amaze me how utterly rude/thick/angry the average punter is.

Earlier this year I was booked onto a 6am flight to Innsbruck, as everyone who skis knows is a great, but oft weather limited airport.

Of course, the morning of the flight BA announced we were delayed as the airfield was pretty much fogged in. Pilots took the time to come & explain that due to missing their slot & weather at destination etc, we wouldn’t be going for at least 2 hours & duly handed out the vouchers for grub/drinks etc.

Straight away people were up in his face, accusing him of lying “as we have seen planes land on flight radar rolleyes “... People kicking off about connecting flights, transfers etc.... If you book an early morning winter flight to a mountain bound airport, surely you need to expect weather to play a part?! I’m sure people would complain even if they understood flying into a mountain at 300kts isn’t the best start to your ski trip.

As it turns out, we took off a few hours late, & the weather was crystal clear, the approach was spectacular through the alps, right down to a few hundred feet, then hit thick cloud & had to go around (I loved it, TOGA climb & a free tour of the alps again!) & almost diverted to Munich, before finally getting in.

Anyway, I think that you should have to pass an exam before being allowed to buy a ticket, surely stupid people shouldn’t be allowed to fly?

Tony1963

4,699 posts

161 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
quotequote all
RWD cossie wil said:
If you book an early morning winter flight to a mountain bound airport, surely you need to expect weather to play a part?! I’m sure people would complain even if they understood flying into a mountain at 300kts isn’t the best start to your ski trip.
This is one of my points frequently made to people, and for any form of travel. All travel involves risk. How many people have never been caught in heavy traffic while driving their own car? How may people haven't been delayed because of a defect with their car? And yet they expect an aircraft and airports and all routes to be able to work just for them, every time.

And I just love conspiracy theorists.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
quotequote all
Part of it is about not having any control over the experience.

People get stressed about air travel, maybe an early start, maybe stress from finishing a busy work schedule or sorting out packing or getting to the airport etc, the queues at checkin or security, seemingly pointless rules, busy terminal, kids kicking off and complaining, finally the gate gets announced let’s go . . and the wife vanishes to buy stuff etc etc etc

Then they eventually get to the gate and there’s a delay maybe we’ll get some compo what if we miss a day holiday, oh it’s weather they don’t have to pay do they? Some blokes got Flightradar24 on his phone, planes are landing and taking off, why aren’t we?

Here’s some pilots, nice of them to come in to talk. Seems reasonable what they’re saying, Maybe they could have come sooner, what about that Flightradar24 thing though? they’re probably lying. They’re answering questions, I’m going to ignore the wife and go and tell them I’m not happy.

Yacht Broker

3,158 posts

266 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
quotequote all
Took a flight out to Palma from Bournemouth with Ryanair. The inbound plane landed on time and we all queued up on the tarmac ready to board. Having stood around for about 20 mins, we were sent back inside. Apparently there was a problem with the refueling system.

Ryanair were actually very good. They told us what the problem was, told us what they were doing about it, told us how long we would likely be delayed, have us food/drink vouchers and gave us compensation forms.

Within minutes they had one of their Learjets in the air from Stansted with an engineer aboard. The learjet arrived in no time and pulled up next to our plane, an engineer hopped out with a step ladder and a bag of spanners and a few minutes later it was all fixed and off we went.

No real complaints from anyone as it was clear what was happening and how speedily they were sort it.

Teddy Lop

8,294 posts

66 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
quotequote all
Yacht Broker said:
Within minutes they had one of their Learjets in the air from Stansted with an engineer aboard. The learjet arrived in no time and pulled up next to our plane, an engineer hopped out with a step ladder and a bag of spanners and a few minutes later it was all fixed and off we went..
wow, I bet that guy enjoys making RAC/AA blokes feel a bit emasculatedlaugh