Berlin Airlift

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Discussion

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Tyre Smoke said:
You are correct Eric. I did know that.

I remember watching a series when I was a lad (late 70s?) about a bloke who started an airline business after the war with an ex services Dakota. Think it was called 'Airline' actually. Second series saw him on the verge of bankruptcy, then along came the blockade. Roy Marsden was in it I think.
A good series too. Sadly, plans for a follow up series failed to materialise. This was partly due to the fact that the aeroplane they had their eye on, which was an ex KLM Lockheed Constellation (N7777G), had been stored in the open at Dublin Airport since 1974. When they looked at it they found it was too badly corroded to be made flyable. The good news is that the film company sold it to the Science Museum where it is held in store to this day.

Abandoned at Dublin -



As restored -

'Airline' was 1982. One season, nine episodes... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083378/episodes?ref_...

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Yep. They did plan a second series using the Constellation but the plan fell flat when they discovered that the Connie they had their eye on was too far gone.

It wasn't based on any one of the "maverick" airline early post war British airline entrepreneurs. It actually encompassed aspects of ALL of them. That included the founders of Dan Air, Freddie Laker, Mike Keegan (later founder of British Air Ferries and father of racing driver, Rupert Keegan) and even the TV presenter Hughie Green (who had made himself a fortune buying up and selling war surplus aircraft).

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

260 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Everyone, I cannot thank you all enough for your help.

From early last evening of a flaky rumour of the Airlift and an intriguing death certificate to not only confirmation of the rumour to knowing how and when and in what aircraft he died. My mind is completely blown.

I've emailed the BBAA to ask if they have any more information, perhaps they know how many sorties he flew, etc.

Once again, thank you all so much.

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
It's highly likely that the Lancastrian was operated by a civilian airline, such as Airwork or BSAA. Therefore, you may find the accident report if you look online.

In fact, I've just done that and the aircraft in question was Lancastrian G-AHJW, operated by Flight Refueling Ltd. It crashed at 17.08 on 22 November 1948 in fog at a place called Conholt Park which is nine miles north of Thruxton Airfield.

Summary of the accident here -

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id...

Here is a photo of G-AHJW



And a side-on profile -



As you can see, it was a rather specialised Lancastrian in that it was fitted with a very early version of in-flight refueling apparatus. Most Lancastrians had streamlined nose and tail cones, replacing the front and rear turrets you would find on a normal Lancaster. As can be seen in the pictures, G-AHJW retained some "Lancaster" features.

Here is a more "normal" Lancastrian -


yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Everyone, I cannot thank you all enough for your help.

From early last evening of a flaky rumour of the Airlift and an intriguing death certificate to not only confirmation of the rumour to knowing how and when and in what aircraft he died. My mind is completely blown.

I've emailed the BBAA to ask if they have any more information, perhaps they know how many sorties he flew, etc.

Once again, thank you all so much.
It would appear that the National Archive has a copy of the accident report, but only hard copy, at Kew... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/...

Reading through this... http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?61... ...it's difficult to be sure, but seems that your grandfather (?) may have been travelling as a passenger (or supernumerary crew) as the sole survivor is listed as the "other" Radio Operator, a Canadian called Paul Stanley Vincent who was thrown from an escape hatch "with his clothes on fire". Sadly, for the purposes of tracing any history for him, Paul Stanley Vincent will be difficult to find online, due to the rock band Kiss (Paul Stanley and Vinnie Vincent). Any references to a Canadian Radio Operator who survived a crash in 1948 will be far below references to a daft rock band on a Google search.

ETA:

Perhaps you could try contacting Flight Refuelling Ltd directly, to see if they have any archive material or records? They are now under the umbrella of "Cobham plc, Brook Road, Wimborne, Dorset, BH21 2BJ, United Kingdom" as far as I can tell. My brother-in-law worked for them at Hurn, but that was a couple of decades ago. If I see him I'll ask if he still knows anyone there, but can't promise to be of any use to you... http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/tag/flight-refuelling-...



Edited by yellowjack on Tuesday 26th November 10:29

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Photo here... https://www.airhistory.net/photo/10975/G-AHJW



And some more detail here... https://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Braas... ...and here... http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14...

From a link in the above site, it seems that six of those lost that day are buried under a memorial in Andover... https://www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/news/2456144.f... ...although there is no mention of which specific cemetery/churchyard.

Sorry if you've already found this stuff, but hope it helps you find more linked info.

Edited by yellowjack on Tuesday 26th November 10:45

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
It's all good stuff. I knew that "normal" Lancastrians were used to ferry fuel into Berlin but I hadn't realised that the special "air to air refueling" test aircraft of Flight Refueling were also used.

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
More stuff now! The FR Ltd aircraft involved would have needed to return to Tarrant Rushton for servicing/inspection after each period of 50 flying hours, which was what G-AHJW was 'positioning' for when it was lost. Later in the Airlift, that period was extended to 75 hours between services/inspections.

I seem to be finding this almost accidentally. Try this page... https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=43649&a... ...but scroll down past the "PC Gone Mad" guff, and there's a good post about FR Ltd and their participation in the Berlin Airlift. Of particular note is this bit...

"...tragedy came to Tarrant Rushton on the misty and foggy late autumn afternoon of November 22nd 1948, when a Lancastrian carrying eight people became lost and crashed at Conholt Park between Ludgershall and Andover in north Hampshire.
On charter to British European Airways, and with 40 sorties into West Berlin under its belt, Lancastrian tanker G-AHJW - known as "Jig Willie" - was on its way back from Wunstorf in Germany to Tarrant Rushton for aircraft servicing and an aircrew rest period.
Seven men on board the tanker were killed - three crew members and four passengers. But radio operator Vincent Stanley cheated certain death and survived with serious burns and shock. He was thrown through the Lancastrian’s escape hatch in the impact which saw the aircraft burst into flames in a copse. The names of the seven fliers who died are included on a Berlin Airlift memorial at Tempelhof Airport, Berlin, and a headstone in St Mary’s Churchyard, Andover..."

Which I think is the church, and churchyard, just up High Street from Market Place right in the centre of Andover... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Church+Cl,+Andov...

I'm not local to there anymore, but perhaps a tame local PHer could be enlisted to find, and possibly post a photo of that memorial? I'd volunteer my services if I wasn't more than an hour away by car.

Edited by yellowjack on Tuesday 26th November 11:18

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
I've been over that way quite a few times over the past few years on my way to camp sites at Devizes and the surrounding area. It's the northern section of the Salisbury Plain and it seems the aircraft had inadvertently tuned into the radio beacon at RAF Netheravon, thinking it was Tarrant Rushton.

The earlier report that Thruxton was the airfield seems to be incorrect.

Flight Refueling Ltd was the company set up by famous 1920/30s pioneer flyer Sir Alan Cobham to carry out research into using air to air refueling as a means to extend aircraft range. Initially, he thought it would have civil applications but, as we all know, it has now become an essential part of military flying.

The company still exists in the form of Cobham PLC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobham_plc

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
This is the location of Conholt Park... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Conholt,+Andover... ...but i believe it's quite a large estate so almost certainly not the exact spot of the crash.

It's a fair way from Thruxton, probably closer to RAF Andover (now Army HQ and an industrial/warehouse estate visible from the A303).

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
I think that was the trading estate where Ocado had that massive fire earlier this year.


yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I think that was the trading estate where Ocado had that massive fire earlier this year.

The Ocado fire was east of Andover, north of the A303 near Twinings Tea roundabout, Picket Piece. RAF Andover is (was) west of Andover, near Weyhill. The main body of the field was south of the A303 where the old services used to be, but the top sliver of the airfield was "snipped" off when the A303 dual carriageway went in.

This... https://www.google.com/maps/dir/51.208148,-1.52666... ...from Google Maps shows them about 4 miles or so apart. "North Site" is where the Belfast Truss hangars were built in WW1. The grass flying surfaces were bounded by Weyhill Road to the north and Red Post lane to the west/southwest. Most of it is covered by a solar farm and the Co-op distribution centre, but there are some concrete pads still extant in fields either side of the modern A303 which cut through the northern edge of the airfield, and there are some surviving RAF buildings in the old 'technical' site where the road layout either side of Monxton Road is pretty much as it was when an RAF Station. The Ocado site was fields behind a smaller commercial area, and back when I knew it it didn't swamp the area around Finckley Down Farm Park, where we used to take our eldest for days out, but that was more than 20 years ago, and much has changed since then.


Edited by yellowjack on Tuesday 26th November 13:12

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
You can come across whole convoys of Co-Op trucks heading down the A303 these days.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

260 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Wow! I'm blown away by everybody's help.

I've also discovered Dornford Robertson was a New Zealander, born in Dunedin. How I came to be born in Penzance to his unmarried daughter, I will never know! That said, I probably will whenever I track her down.


aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It's highly likely that the Lancastrian was operated by a civilian airline, such as Airwork or BSAA. Therefore, you may find the accident report if you look online.

In fact, I've just done that and the aircraft in question was Lancastrian G-AHJW, operated by Flight Refueling Ltd. It crashed at 17.08 on 22 November 1948 in fog at a place called Conholt Park which is nine miles north of Thruxton Airfield.

Summary of the accident here -

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id...

Here is a photo of G-AHJW



And a side-on profile -



As you can see, it was a rather specialised Lancastrian in that it was fitted with a very early version of in-flight refueling apparatus. Most Lancastrians had streamlined nose and tail cones, replacing the front and rear turrets you would find on a normal Lancaster. As can be seen in the pictures, G-AHJW retained some "Lancaster" features.

Here is a more "normal" Lancastrian -

Yep, Flight Refuelling operated about a dozen Lancastrian during the Berlin Airlift, using 32 full crews, and transported over 100,000 tons of fuel into RAF Gatow during the airlift.



Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

260 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Back in 1989, I stayed on what was then RAF Gatow because my girlfriend at the time had a sister married to a RAF groundcrew.

Little did I know.

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
There's a nice museum at RAF Gatow now.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

260 months

Tuesday 26th November 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
There's a nice museum at RAF Gatow now.
I can see I might have to spend some of next Spring and Summer going around Andover area and perhaps another trip to Berlin.

Last time I was at Gatow I had a pleasant evening doughnutting a LHD Hertz Sierra down a closed and very snowy runway.

Benni

3,509 posts

210 months

Wednesday 27th November 2019
quotequote all
If the OP follows the link he will se a picture of the names list

on the base of the Berlin Airlift Memorial, the text above reads :

"They gave their lives for Berlin´s freedom, on duty in the airlift 1948 / 49"

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=56...

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

260 months

Wednesday 27th November 2019
quotequote all
Benni said:
If the OP follows the link he will se a picture of the names list

on the base of the Berlin Airlift Memorial, the text above reads :

"They gave their lives for Berlin´s freedom, on duty in the airlift 1948 / 49"

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=56...
Thanks Benni, already seen that. thumbup