Stupid design / difficult repairs caused by "packaging"

[M4cruiser]

Having recently repaired a washer motor pump, it set me thinking. Why put the whole bottle in the front wheel arch - where it's a lot more difficult to get to it? You can't even easily test the electric connections without removing the wheel arch lining, and breaking some of the plastic clips in the process!

Do you have any more examples!

Another that springs to mind is the lack of a full-sized spare, just for convenience of the designer and CO2 reasons. Ludicrous.

[richs2891]

Headlight bulbs that can not be changed without removing the entire light or in some case the bumper

Or lights that require a special tool to remove them

[Miserablegit]

Whilst I agree entirely with the light nonsense that requires a bumper removal and seems to be the reason so many people are driving with duff lights it doesn’t help when manufacturers go the other way:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...

[anonymous-user]

I see your point, but given how much "stuff" there is on a modern car it must be exceptionally difficult/impossible to package it so that everything is easily accessible. Some manufacturers really don't seem to give the slightest st about it though, and stuff like putting the timing chain at the back of the engine shows nothing short of contempt for long term owners.

[98elise]

M4cruiser said:

Having recently repaired a washer motor pump, it set me thinking. Why put the whole bottle in the front wheel arch - where it's a lot more difficult to get to it? You can't even easily test the electric connections without removing the wheel arch lining, and breaking some of the plastic clips in the process!

Do you have any more examples!

Another that springs to mind is the lack of a full-sized spare, just for convenience of the designer and CO2 reasons. Ludicrous.

I'm with you on the bottle washer, probably done for cost reasons.

I disagree on the space saver though. My wife recently had a puncture and the full size wheel weighed a ton. The space saver was easy to get on in comparison. No way she could have lifted and fitted a full size wheel.

[finlo]

98elise said:

I'm with you on the bottle washer, probably done for cost reasons.

I disagree on the space saver though. My wife recently had a puncture and the full size wheel weighed a ton. The space saver was easy to get on in comparison. No way she could have lifted and fitted a full size wheel.

Was the one she removed not full size then?

[anonymous-user]

finlo said:

Was the one she removed not full size then?

Miles easier to get a wheel off than put one on and line it up, then hold it in place while you get a couple of the bolts in place to hold it there. Easier with studs, but still much harder than taking a wheel off.

I know plenty of people, and not just women, who'd have a real struggle doing that with a modern 19"+ wheel.

[Sheepshanks]

stickleback123 said:

Miles easier to get a wheel off than put one on and line it up, then hold it in place while you get a couple of the bolts in place to hold it there. Easier with studs, but still much harder than taking a wheel off.

I know plenty of people, and not just women, who'd have a real struggle doing that with a modern 19"+ wheel.

My Merc, and I think (but not certain) wife's VW, has a screw in guide bar for this. Both cars have space-savers.

You're not meant to change wheels yourself these days, anyway! I'm impressed if your wife did it - if they were 19" wheels they're blinking heavy. My wife got someone else to do it and daughter just called the AA.

[Otispunkmeyer]

stickleback123 said:

I see your point, but given how much "stuff" there is on a modern car it must be exceptionally difficult/impossible to package it so that everything is easily accessible. Some manufacturers really don't seem to give the slightest st about it though, and stuff like putting the timing chain at the back of the engine shows nothing short of contempt for long term owners.

We have a Renault scenic at work... The battery is under a load of plastic and tubing for the air intake. The air box itself is then buried completely under the windscreen. Like basically under the top of the dash. So air filter change requires removing a load of plastic, ducting and the battery to even access the air box. Horrible car.

On every other car I've worked on, air box is front and centre. Couple of clips or screws and the filter is done < 2 mins. Not for the French tho.

[OllieJolly]

A20DTH (2.0 CDTI) engine on Insignias, Astras, etc, that have an oil pickup seal issue, requiring removal of oil sump. If not fixed, main bearings are starved of oil and will seize. At worst this requires removal of gearbox to access two sump bolts.

All for a <£10 rubber o-ring.


Also to mention, my 307cc has a guide bar also to aid fitting wheel. You just screw it into the hub, and then place the wheel over the bar and onto the hub. Then you can just spin the other 3 nuts in and unscrew it.

[bluezedd]

richs2891 said:

Headlight bulbs that can not be changed without removing the entire light or in some case the bumper

Or lights that require a special tool to remove them

This is the case on a honda jazz of all things. I mostly rip up my hand through the wheel arch liner to replace a bulb.

I can kinda understand in something which is performance related where you'll be expected to have some compromises. This shouldn't be the case on a granny commuter car though.

[Ninja59]

stickleback123 said:

I see your point, but given how much "stuff" there is on a modern car it must be exceptionally difficult/impossible to package it so that everything is easily accessible. Some manufacturers really don't seem to give the slightest st about it though, and stuff like putting the timing chain at the back of the engine shows nothing short of contempt for long term owners.

Usually driven by the fact the EU for pedestrian accident regulations want the engines mounted lower to avoid head injuries from large heavy metal items and give more space.

In fact if you look at most manufacturers recent engines nearly all north south engines are now rear mounted timing chain setups

[ZX10R NIN]

As others have said changing a headlight bulb is a joke.

[anonymous-user]

Ninja59 said:

In fact if you look at most manufacturers recent engines nearly all north south engines are now rear mounted timing chain setups

Serious question, not PH tttyness, does any manufacturer outside of Germany do this?

[markyb_lcy]

richs2891 said:

Headlight bulbs that can not be changed without removing the entire light or in some case the bumper

MR2 Roadster (facelift) headlight bulbs are like this. They look like they’re going to be easy, but the clip to hold them in once changed is an absolute pain in the arse.

What I expected to be a 5 min job turned into a couple of hours and involved removing the bumper. Seriously hope I never have need to do it at the roadside!

[Eyersey1234]

My old Fiesta was a PIA to change the headlight bulb on, at least my Focus is a lot easier.

[M4cruiser]

Miserablegit said:

Whilst I agree entirely with the light nonsense that requires a bumper removal and seems to be the reason so many people are driving with duff lights it doesn’t help when manufacturers go the other way:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...

Agree it's silly to make it too easy, but surely acceptable to make opening the bonnet (or boot) necessary to change a bulb. That's sensible security, and true on my car(s).

[M4cruiser]

stickleback123 said:

Miles easier to get a wheel off than put one on and line it up, then hold it in place while you get a couple of the bolts in place to hold it there. Easier with studs, but still much harder than taking a wheel off.

I know plenty of people, and not just women, who'd have a real struggle doing that with a modern 19"+ wheel.

Good point, but it's odd that many "French hatchbacks" (i.e. shopping / commuter cars) have bolts not studs. Changing a wheel on my OH's car is a pain, the rear ones will just about stay in place whilst you rotate it to line up the holes, but the front ones won't.

Also the spare is under the floor (accessed/released from inside the boot) but it was even beyond my strength to get it out and back in again without another assistant. That's just crazy. I think Renault just want you to call them out and pay them for it.

[M4cruiser]

stickleback123 said:

finlo said:

Was the one she removed not full size then?

Miles easier to get a wheel off than put one on and line it up, then hold it in place while you get a couple of the bolts in place to hold it there. Easier with studs, but still much harder than taking a wheel off.

I know plenty of people, and not just women, who'd have a real struggle doing that with a modern 19"+ wheel.

... and when you've done it, where do you put the full sized one!!!!! By definition it won't fit in the place the space saver came out from. Slight inherent design cock-up.

[Muddle238]

Not so much a packaging issue but more to do with the manufacturer choice of fixings -

Take the undertray on my previous car for example. There were seven T30 torx fixings, six 10mm hex bolts and three plastic clips. Why couldn't everything be held on with just a single type of fixing? Very fiddly buggering about changing the bit on the ratchet spanner under the car and a first world PITA.