Double glazing in a listed building?
Discussion
I'm about to receive a very large estimate for repairing and replacing a large number of rotten timber casement windows and doors in my listed property. I wondered if this might be a good opportunity to put in some double glazing. I wondered if anyone had any experience getting planning approval for these kind of works - or any recommendations as to the kind of product which might be acceptable. The property is about 500 years old. Cheers
I'd never buy a listed building again. When I asked to replace some doors and windows in a listed building they flat said no. There was no architectural merit in the rotten ones that were fitted and I knew they didn't know what they looked like so I just changed them myself. House long since sold, no issues.
Equus said:
It depends entirely on the individual building (and to a slightly lesser extent the attitude of the individual Conservation Officer).
It is therefore pointless trying to draw any inference from anything anyone says on here: you need to discuss it with the CO at your local authority.
Cheers, is this something that can be done on an informal basis, or does it need a written application etcIt is therefore pointless trying to draw any inference from anything anyone says on here: you need to discuss it with the CO at your local authority.
Equus said:
It depends entirely on the individual building (and to a slightly lesser extent the attitude of the individual Conservation Officer).
It is therefore pointless trying to draw any inference from anything anyone says on here: you need to discuss it with the CO at your local authority.
OP, it's as Equus says. There are so many variables but it is by no means impossible. It is therefore pointless trying to draw any inference from anything anyone says on here: you need to discuss it with the CO at your local authority.
My house (grade 2 listing) has double glazing (slim profile panels) in it. We have extended directly onto it and the extention has triple glazed windows bar some front aspect ones which the planners said had to be doubles.
Assuming we're talking Grade 2 listing, Equus is absolutely right, as usual. FWIW my Conservation Officer told me to fit secondary glazing (despite the impossibility due to inward opening windows). We ended up £30k lighter on single glazed units, but no requirement to fit conservation glass, which is really the whole point of restoring them sensitively. You'll need permission for each window, but you knew that. Good luck with your CO, they're a law unto themselves....
We've just added some Extraglaze to some of our single glazed windows to give it a try and I must say it is easy to install, looks great and hardly noticable and isn't that expensive - averaged around £100 per window. It now feels warmer in the rooms I have installed it and the condensation in the mornings has now gone. I've now just ordered some more and will order more as we refurb the old windows and replace the 1970's/80's windows with something more in keeping. But single glazed as we have a stickler CO, but I would do it that way anyway as I love the old wavy glass so even the replacements we have had wavy glass installed.
FFG
FFG
pidsy said:
1 or 2 listing OP?
Equus is (as others have said) on point with his post.
I do have experience with replacing windows in a listed commercial building - sound out your PO and maybe find a company that specialise in dealing with heritage and go from there.
Grade 2. Equus is (as others have said) on point with his post.
I do have experience with replacing windows in a listed commercial building - sound out your PO and maybe find a company that specialise in dealing with heritage and go from there.
The purpose is to improve heat retention as this house leaks heat at a ridiculous rate.
Amateurish said:
Cheers, is this something that can be done on an informal basis, or does it need a written application etc
You will ultimately need a formal application (for Listed Building Consent, not Planning - they're two different things).But since LBC (unlike Planning) is free of charge, so the Conservation Officers know they're going to have to deal with it sooner or later, many will engage with you informally, before you prepare the application.
Be aware that they tend to have very high workloads (by Local Authority standards), though, so you might find they take some time and a bit of polite chasing before they get round to it.
Elderly said:
In these days of climate emergency and the need to reduce the quantity of fossil fuels used,
is it sensible not to always allow the use of thin panel double glazing?
It depends.is it sensible not to always allow the use of thin panel double glazing?
Taken as an extreme example: one of my teachers at Junior School owned a listed farmhouse, one of the most historically important features of which was that some of its windows were still glazed with genuine, cast Elizabethan glass.
Then there's the Grade II* listed parish church we're currently converting to a dwelling over in Wales... which has fine (if not extraordinary) stained glass windows.
I myself lived in a Grade II listed 'Arts & Crafts' cottage by Ernest Gimson, which still had it's original front door (complete with 9" long key... I got some funny looks when I carried that in my trouser pocket) and some of its windows. Again, they were considered to be important original features. That cottage had secondary double glazing, but the gap under the front door was big enough for the mice to march though wearing top hat and tails.
If you make blanket rules, they need to be applicable in all circumstances.
Varies hugely, have two (grade ii) listed projects on go currently, both circa 250 yo.
Project 1 (chapel in Wales) Refusal to permit slimline glazing on original large sash windows, just secondary glazing. But same conservation officer then agreed slimline double glazing on huge arched church windows and looks like she’ll permit it on replacement lancet (arched windows).
Project 2 (old brick barn, west berks) Agreement to replace wooden french doors with aluminium bi folds, really is a lottery.
Well worth seeking out the conservation officer, they are generally more sympathetic if what you have in situ is past repair. In which case take a photographic record and tradesmens advice to meeting. If it’s salvageable and original you’ll be directed towards secondary glazing.
It’s not impossible to get LBC for replacement double glazing in a Grade 2 property. I am doing so for a client at the moment. The LA are largely supportive however we are proposing a steel frame with only a 16mm dg unit. In effect we are replicating the old single glazed Crittall frames with the modern equivalent. The client wanted modern 28mm upvc frames, need I repeat the planners initial reaction.
I have also been advised on other properties that a thin dg unit in a timber sash would be acceptable. I’d recommend pre app discussions with the LA. Most of the time you will end up wanting to smash ya head through the window but sometimes they do surprise you.
I have also been advised on other properties that a thin dg unit in a timber sash would be acceptable. I’d recommend pre app discussions with the LA. Most of the time you will end up wanting to smash ya head through the window but sometimes they do surprise you.
When we first moved in I spoke to our CO and invited him around to have a look and let him know what I wanted to do to gauge his views. After that he was very accommodating as he could see I was doing teh right thing for the building and removing the 60's-80's fook ups which threatened to destroy the fabric of the house. Unfortunately he isn't the CO anymore and the council have employed a much less accommodating CO. I'm in Redditch btw but the "rules" and interpretation varies around the country so its down to where you live and the CO you have to deal with.
Its depressing watching all these old building refurbs on the TV which seem to overlook, or certainly don't mention, any LBC which may apply.
FFG
Its depressing watching all these old building refurbs on the TV which seem to overlook, or certainly don't mention, any LBC which may apply.
FFG
FlipFlopGriff said:
We've just added some Extraglaze to some of our single glazed windows to give it a try and I must say it is easy to install, looks great and hardly noticable and isn't that expensive - averaged around £100 per window.
FFG
We have problems with condensation in the bedrooms and live near the town center so we'd benefit from a bit of noise insulation.FFG
Fairly big windows at 1.8x1.1m. I checked the online quote tool and it was £150 supplied and around £795 supplied and fitted. Eek.
The answer is probably remove the lower pane, but what do you do when you want to open the window in the Summer?
pushthebutton said:
We have problems with condensation in the bedrooms and live near the town center so we'd benefit from a bit of noise insulation.
Fairly big windows at 1.8x1.1m. I checked the online quote tool and it was £150 supplied and around £795 supplied and fitted. Eek.
The answer is probably remove the lower pane, but what do you do when you want to open the window in the Summer?
I fiited mine and its easy, you just need to ensure you have a flat surface, which with 250-400 year old frames, and window handles that protrude beyond the frame can be a challenge so i added some rectangular section platic and stuck this to the frame to bring the secondary panel slightly away from the handle. It looks fine and I used 3m VHB tape to secure - I knew this tape was good as i've used it to secure a spoiler on the Winnebago to take the breeze over the top of the solar panels. You can either take the whole panel off in teh summer or buy separate panels so you could then just remove the opener.Fairly big windows at 1.8x1.1m. I checked the online quote tool and it was £150 supplied and around £795 supplied and fitted. Eek.
The answer is probably remove the lower pane, but what do you do when you want to open the window in the Summer?
FFG
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