EV/ Hybrid purchase

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Discussion

Original Poster

92 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

Afternoon all,

As above, im pondering buying a hybrid or fully electric car. The reason for this is I am taking on a part time delivery driving job. This will consist of small journeys ranging from a mile round trip up to around four miles.

However, the car would also need to take on a forty mile round trip to my full time job most days.

So, I think a range of around 150 miles would be plenty. What kind of generation of EVs would manage this in the real world? Any models better than others?

Looking to keep costs fairly sensible but no super minis/ twizys please!

Thanks

ZX10R NIN

27,577 posts

125 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

How much do you want to spend that'll help with which car will work best.

Original Poster

92 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

The budget is reasonably fluid although probably around £15k ideally. Once full time ill be getting about £100 per week in fuel money from the job so figured now could be a good time to go ev instead of spending it all on diesel

Mr E

21,614 posts

259 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

Lease a 40kw leaf?

ZX10R NIN

27,577 posts

125 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

Trendsetter said:

Original Poster

92 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

Some interesting choices in there for sure (I never realised the b class was fully electric). I suspect a purely electric car would probably be the more prudent choice financially. My concern is whether a car in my budget would have the necessary range.

I'll probably need to use my existing car for a little while to see what the average mileage travelled is and whether electric would work.

I take it these really short, urban journeys are where hybrid cars make the most sense?

ZX10R NIN

27,577 posts

125 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

I'd say a Hybrid/Diesel Hybrid is actually the best option especially if your circumstances change then you have the flexibility should you need to deliver to a bigger area etc.

Original Poster

92 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

The delivery area is pretty fixed and the area covered is fairly small. The thing that puts me off hybrid is that there would still be a fuel cost attached. Whereas, since electricity is far cheaper, the fuel money would essentially be paying for the car instead of the fuel.

Unless im clearly missing something and hybrids would be exceptionally efficient on those very short journeys? I had thought they wouldve been better on longer drives but could be mistaken

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

254 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020

Pick anything with a plug on it.

calculate 4 miles per kwh of battery

plug in hybrids can work well but take a while to charge ( 3-6 hours)

Mack11

130 posts

60 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

I have had and driven quite a few PHEV's/Electric cars.

Hybrids: This is pure fuel economy and the choice with way cheaper full ICE cars means its not always the best choice for your circumstances.

PHEV: As stated above, the charge is too slow and very few can properly fast charge, I also would have 1 in 15-20 times where it would fail to charge.
Lots of those vehicles have issues with fuel economy if you cannot charge or the temperature is cold outside (For example my old Outlander PHEV would not use electricity if the temperature was x and i turned on the heating).
These really work where you charge overnight, drive to work at an office and charge all day, then drive home...rinse/repeat.
Scenario- You charge your car for 6hrs and drive 16 miles, come back and now you need to drive 10 more but do not have time to charge before going back out and driving around at a far worse mpg.

Full electric: The ones with the best range are very expensive and the ones listed above need discipline to avoid range anxiety but certainly doable for lots of local drop offs and fast charging.
I would check those that have fast charging, from memory the Mercedes B class one did not have it and definitely affects the convenience/resale value.

Good luck.

Summit_Detailing

1,889 posts

193 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

Trendsetter said:

Unless im clearly missing something and hybrids would be exceptionally efficient on those very short journeys? I had thought they wouldve been better on longer drives but could be mistaken

Speed is the downfall of Hybrids and EV's in regards to efficiency.
A hybrid typically relies on both the electric and petrol power sources on the motorway making it less efficient than when being used at lower speeds where it can use electric and only ask the engine for assistance on inclines
The same applies to an EV, something like a Zoe or Leaf are brilliant around town and short journeys, but you can watch the range drop quickly once being used 55/60mph+.

I think a petrol hybrid fits the bill in terms of journey profiles.
Toyota Prius, Kia Niro, Hyundai Ioniq, Lexus CT200h all fit for purpose.

Happy shopping!

Cheers,

Chris

dmsims

6,513 posts

267 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

Mack11 said:

PHEV: As stated above, the charge is too slow and very few can properly fast charge, I also would have 1 in 15-20 times where it would fail to charge.
Lots of those vehicles have issues with fuel economy if you cannot charge or the temperature is cold outside (For example my old Outlander PHEV would not use electricity if the temperature was x and i turned on the heating).
These really work where you charge overnight, drive to work at an office and charge all day, then drive home...rinse/repeat.
Scenario- You charge your car for 6hrs and drive 16 miles, come back and now you need to drive 10 more but do not have time to charge before going back out and driving around at a far worse mpg.

Not my experience with a Golf GTE

Never failed to charge in 16 months

Does 55mpg on a long run

Full charge takes less than 2 hours - range is 25 miles summer 15-20 winter

Pre-heating the car is great

cedrichn

812 posts

51 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

Trendsetter said:

Unless im clearly missing something and hybrids would be exceptionally efficient on those very short journeys? I had thought they wouldve been better on longer drives but could be mistaken

Self charging are great, except if :
- you do "really" low speed for long distance(range is short, so if you make 2 miles in traffic jam, then the ICE kicks back in). The car likes to be driven around the town, but not in huge traffic jam for long time
- the car is always cold: the car use the ICE until the car gets to a decent temperature. So in winter + heating ON + 3 miles journey, the car will return bad MPG. If you drive "all day", or the car never really gets cold, then you do get good MPG

That's the reason why so many taxis/PH used self charging hybrid.

To sum-up, they are perfect to do suburb drives all day long while returning good MPG.

Edited by cedrichn on Wednesday 19th February 15:01

Condi

17,168 posts

171 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

With £100 in fuel paid, and electric maybe costing you a tenner why not use the £360/month to lease something new, EV, and with a reasonable range?

Nissan Leaf with the big battery will happily do 130 miles a day without range anxiety I would have thought?

EDIT - just had a look. 62KWh Leaf will do 230 miles on 1 charge and 1st leasing website I found said £309/m for 48 months. No doubt you can find cheaper. Google 'PodPoint' for home charger, will cost about £250 from memory after the government kick back.

Edited by Condi on Wednesday 19th February 15:12

Mack11

130 posts

60 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

dmsims said:

The full charge in two hours is you using a wall charger and not a normal plug and 15 miles in Winter, I'm just saying its less practical if say you drove 45 miles in winter and would need to charge for 6 hours on a wall charger.

I had a Mercedes c350e for three years and it was quoted as 19 miles but I never got more than 15 regardless of the weather. My average MPG was no better than a Passat Diesel and the added cost and hassle of charging. I am still a fan of Hybrids and full electric just giving op food for thought.

Original Poster

92 posts

65 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

In answer to the suggestions of leasing, its something id prefer to avoid. Ive only ever had one car on pcp and I just didnt like it. Always disliked it for some reason. Plus then id be In the same position as using an ICE car. Whereas buying am EV the fuel money pays for the car itself.

Its all just pillow talk at present. Im not sure an EV in my budget would have the required range. The 50kWh Peugeot 208 seems a decent price/ range combo but it is a lot of money to commit to. I'll probably keep my car for a month and see if the numbers stack up. Definitely leaning towards full electric though

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

254 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

IMO if your not sure wait a couple years will be heaps more choice and cheaper plus many ex business used cars

dmsims

6,513 posts

267 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

Mack11 said:

The full charge in two hours is you using a wall charger and not a normal plug

Normal plug is ~3.5 hours

How do you calculate a 6 hour charge for any PHEV ?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

254 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020

dmsims said:

Normal plug is ~3.5 hours

How do you calculate a 6 hour charge for any PHEV ?

My Outlander phev was 6. hours at 8 amps (the included charger).

I could have installed a 15 amp charger but for me the saving of 3 hours for a ~25km addition of range (50/2) wsnt worth the bother.

The Cardinal

1,265 posts

252 months

Thursday 20th February 2020

£15k seems like a generous outlay for a car related to a part-time delivery job. Perhaps an outlay too far? The depreciation on a higher cost electric or plug-in hybrid may well outweigh the fuel savings compared to a cheaper ICE, standard hybrid or early BEV.

I have a CT200h, mentioned above - basically a reskinned Prius or Auris. Fuel economy isn't at its best on very short journeys from cold, but I only mention it because we're talking about a small dent in very impressive overall urban fuel economy. If your Toyota hyrbid is already warmed up / charged when doing a small trip, it'll likely return 50-70mpg. The main advantage of a "self charging" hybrid is that range isn't an issue.

Personally, I'd recommend taking a look at an early Auris hybrid, CT200h etc - (the Prius possibly being too well-known, with prices to match) - or an early Leaf if your usage profile matches the limited range.

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