Discussion
Easier said than done, but a stint in a jumpseat works wonders. Done this a few times in IL-76’s in the Middle East over the years and been banged around over the hot desert air. The lack of reaction/concern from the flight crew, and being able to see out the front is very reassuring.
Bus driver hitting a bump in the road sort of thing.
Bus driver hitting a bump in the road sort of thing.
Condi said:
Best thing I did was take a lesson in a small aircraft. Once you see it all from up front, and understand how it works, and see the large distance between you and the ground, it becomes less worrying. Small aircraft bounce about a lot as well, so you get plenty of experience, and kinda understand 'that's just what it does'.
I did an aerobatic lesson in a small aircraft. Absolutely loved it. Still get weirded out by turbulence in an airliner though.
BishBosh said:
Turbulence acts on the entire plane at the same time, the wings or engine won’t collapse or fall off....
That’s what I was told so I think of jelly and I calm down a bit....
Hmmm okaaaay ever looked out of the window at the wingtips during turbulence? Ever thought about metal fatigue?That’s what I was told so I think of jelly and I calm down a bit....
It used to be called ‘air pockets’. When did that stop?
AdamC28 said:
Your experience mirrors mine exactly. Just can’t help it and don’t really understand why.
No escape option or any illusion of it is my theory. For example If you're in a ship and worried about it sinking you can tell yourself you have the option of swimming or going for a lifeboat, but once a plane leaves the ground you're completely at the mercy of others and I don't think there's anything that strange in being uneasy at the concept, regardless of facts.LimaDelta said:
Try to sit over or just ahead of the wings. Avoid sitting at the back. It is much more noticable the further aft you are seated. Other than completely avoiding air travel there is nothing you can do to control it. Acceptance is the path to enlightenment.
Whenever I get an A380, I have always gone for the seats at the back on the upper deck. Where its just a window and an aisle, 2 seats.But when that huge aircraft hits turbulence, the rear wags like it's attached to a very excited Cocker Spaniel. How is that possible? Is the airframe actually bending behind the wings?
Like I said before, it all makes sense when being buffeted in a 2 seat Cessna but in a Super Jumbo!?
Teddy Lop said:
AdamC28 said:
Your experience mirrors mine exactly. Just can’t help it and don’t really understand why.
No escape option or any illusion of it is my theory. For example If you're in a ship and worried about it sinking you can tell yourself you have the option of swimming or going for a lifeboat, but once a plane leaves the ground you're completely at the mercy of others and I don't think there's anything that strange in being uneasy at the concept, regardless of facts.In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
croyde said:
Whenever I get an A380, I have always gone for the seats at the back on the upper deck. Where its just a window and an aisle, 2 seats.
But when that huge aircraft hits turbulence, the rear wags like it's attached to a very excited Cocker Spaniel. How is that possible? Is the airframe actually bending behind the wings?
Like I said before, it all makes sense when being buffeted in a 2 seat Cessna but in a Super Jumbo!?
The turbulence usually feels worse the nearer the back you are, especially longer aircraft, it’s just to do with how the aircraft rides through it, often we’ll be in light turbulence in the front and the crew at the back will call up and ask for the seat belt signs to be turned on. But when that huge aircraft hits turbulence, the rear wags like it's attached to a very excited Cocker Spaniel. How is that possible? Is the airframe actually bending behind the wings?
Like I said before, it all makes sense when being buffeted in a 2 seat Cessna but in a Super Jumbo!?
I’ve always tried to avoid being seated at the back on any aircraft as I find the rear feels as though it’s wagging during turbulence. It feels much better seated up front or near the wings.
I’ve not flown for the last 18 months due to anxiety largely caused by turbulence- I’ve flown hundreds of times & been ok but the last 18 months have been an issue.
I’ve not flown for the last 18 months due to anxiety largely caused by turbulence- I’ve flown hundreds of times & been ok but the last 18 months have been an issue.
El stovey said:
I’ve spoken to a lot of nervous passengers and their fears vary from a general worry that ‘something bad’ might happen to specific worries about things like the engines stopping or fire or if the wings break. You often get asked “what if all the engines stop” or “what if the wings break” etc then you can actually talk about what would happen or about how the aircraft is made and why those worries aren’t perhaps that realistic.
In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
Hahaha imagine a dozing passenger just waking up to hear the words ‘wings breaking’. In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm okaaaay ever looked out of the window at the wingtips during turbulence? Ever thought about metal fatigue?
It used to be called ‘air pockets’. When did that stop?
Look at the wings flex during takeoff. It used to be called ‘air pockets’. When did that stop?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--LTYRTKV_A
dave_s13 said:
https://youtu.be/EuLURmITq_E
Have a watch of that. He's got a great channel all about aviation stuff like this.
This is fantastic, thank you Have a watch of that. He's got a great channel all about aviation stuff like this.
I have to say I don’t like turbulence much either, despite reassuring myself that these aircraft are more than capable of weathering any bumps.
Having said that, I think the most upset I’ve been was on a flight back from LA some years ago. Having just received my dinner, I was quite smug when the row in front of me missed out on theirs because of the food trolley being put away due to turbulence. That was until we entered the worst turbulence I’ve ever encountered and I slopped my Beef Bourguinon all down my front
Having said that, I think the most upset I’ve been was on a flight back from LA some years ago. Having just received my dinner, I was quite smug when the row in front of me missed out on theirs because of the food trolley being put away due to turbulence. That was until we entered the worst turbulence I’ve ever encountered and I slopped my Beef Bourguinon all down my front
paulguitar said:
I am a logical person, and I can confidently explain to someone else why they have no reason to be afraid in turbulence. My reaction is completely instinctive, and goes against all I know to be true in terms of it not being an issue for the aircraft.
It doesn’t stop me from flying, which is just as well, as I have to do it for work regularly, and I don’t worry about flying, days, or even hours, ahead of time. It’s just a visceral, instinctive reaction to the actual turbulence itself.
Are you sure it's not actually travel sickness and not fear? I get a bit funny on the way into a bumpy landing and bad turbulence. I find closing my eyes, breathing slowly and trying to sleep really helps.It doesn’t stop me from flying, which is just as well, as I have to do it for work regularly, and I don’t worry about flying, days, or even hours, ahead of time. It’s just a visceral, instinctive reaction to the actual turbulence itself.
El stovey said:
I’ve spoken to a lot of nervous passengers and their fears vary from a general worry that ‘something bad’ might happen to specific worries about things like the engines stopping or fire or if the wings break. You often get asked “what if all the engines stop” or “what if the wings break” etc then you can actually talk about what would happen or about how the aircraft is made and why those worries aren’t perhaps that realistic.
In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
Thanks for such an interesting and insightful post, a great read for someone like me who has no clue on such things, excellent.In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
I only fly once or twice a year for holidays and had no real understanding on the whole, 'how it works' thing. I'm ok on a plane and fortunately so far have not been on a flight that has suffered any memorable turbulence. I enjoy the take off, landing and am pretty comfortable at cruising altitude, but the slightest noise or creak has me going into some sort of tense mode.
I think with me, (maybe others) its a control thing?
I've driven trucks now for 27 years as a career and its just a daily event, this is my chosen career and I still enjoy it. At times over the years I've had a few passengers with me who for them it was their first time in a 44 tonne truck and its surprising, (to me) how differently they can react in situations that in a car they normally would not even think about.
I have been on various ferries, across various seas over the years when on my travels in the truck. 95% have been fine but every now and then you get a choppy one. A regular one back in the day was the Portsmouth too Bilbao, and vice-versa. This takes in the Bay of Biscay which is known for its at times rough seas. For some reason I was always ok on this and I've been on it in storm force 10 when the fruit machines on deck and even the band in the galaxy room, were falling over.
I never did work out how I could be perfectly fine on the boats in rough seas, and yet the slightest creak or noise on a plane would have me tensing up? As a regular on the Bilbao boat I slowly got to know some of the crew and the subject came up 1 day in conversation about rough seas. Patrick, 1 of the bar staff put it like this for me, he said, "If you see me, or any other crew member wearing a life jacket, this is the time to realise that there could possibly be an issue."
Is there something I should be watching for when I'm next a passenger on a plane
chilistrucker said:
I have been on various ferries, across various seas over the years when on my travels in the truck. 95% have been fine but every now and then you get a choppy one. A regular one back in the day was the Portsmouth too Bilbao, and vice-versa. This takes in the Bay of Biscay which is known for its at times rough seas. For some reason I was always ok on this and I've been on it in storm force 10 when the fruit machines on deck and even the band in the galaxy room, were falling over.
I never did work out how I could be perfectly fine on the boats in rough seas, and yet the slightest creak or noise on a plane would have me tensing up? As a regular on the Bilbao boat I slowly got to know some of the crew and the subject came up 1 day in conversation about rough seas. Patrick, 1 of the bar staff put it like this for me, he said, "If you see me, or any other crew member wearing a life jacket, this is the time to realise that there could possibly be an issue."
I was on that ferry (Pride of Bilbao) as an entertainer back in the late ’90s. Were you on board for the hurricane? I think it was 1999.I never did work out how I could be perfectly fine on the boats in rough seas, and yet the slightest creak or noise on a plane would have me tensing up? As a regular on the Bilbao boat I slowly got to know some of the crew and the subject came up 1 day in conversation about rough seas. Patrick, 1 of the bar staff put it like this for me, he said, "If you see me, or any other crew member wearing a life jacket, this is the time to realise that there could possibly be an issue."
I’ve commuted weekly by plane for 20 years and I’m still a rubbish flyer. I’ve only had a handful of incidents but the worst involved a 747 hitting some kind of storm system and dropping a long way quite quickly. Everyone not wearing their seatbelt was on the ceiling for a couple of seconds and 11 people were subsequently hospitalised when we stopped dropping, some with broken limbs. Emergency landing (to get people into ambulances) was dialled up. The 747 was then subject to an airframe inspection so the next flight for it was delayed by a day. I can confirm I screamed like a girl when The Drop happened. Fortunately I can also confirm that my scream was drowned out by everyone else’s. Now that’s turbulence!
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