Discussion
w1bbles said:
I’ve commuted weekly by plane for 20 years and I’m still a rubbish flyer. I’ve only had a handful of incidents but the worst involved a 747 hitting some kind of storm system and dropping a long way quite quickly. Everyone not wearing their seatbelt was on the ceiling for a couple of seconds and 11 people were subsequently hospitalised when we stopped dropping, some with broken limbs. Emergency landing (to get people into ambulances) was dialled up. The 747 was then subject to an airframe inspection so the next flight for it was delayed by a day. I can confirm I screamed like a girl when The Drop happened. Fortunately I can also confirm that my scream was drowned out by everyone else’s. Now that’s turbulence!
It's precisely this kind of story that prevents me being able to relax!paulguitar said:
I was on that ferry (Pride of Bilbao) as an entertainer back in the late ’90s. Were you on board for the hurricane? I think it was 1999.
I was on it mainly late 90's/early 00's so you would have kept me entertained, thanks 
Fortunately I missed the hurricane, the one I remember was when the captain had earlier warned us all of possible force 10/11 conditions. It did get naughty as you could not even walk down the aisles in a straight line and at one point the boat hit a wave that sent the band falling out onto the dance floor. One of the band members collected a passenger on his way down, she also went over with him and suffered a broken collarbone.
That hurricane you mention, was it Christmas/New Years time by any chance?
Patrick mentioned to me that particular crossing when the Captain was unhappy at taking the boat out.
Now bear with me here as this is from memory, and Patrick telling the story, not me.
Apparently the boat was sold out for the New Years eve trip, but the storm predicted was particularly naughty. When the Captain raised the issues with P&O brass, he was told the boat was designed to sail in seas up to storm force 12, and "ONLY" 11 had been predicted.
Allegedly the Captain did take the boat out, as he wanted to keep his job, (again hearsay here, no proof) but at 1 point the boat tilted over at a 41 degree angle
Apparently the point of no return was 45 degrees????? I also heard that not long after this journey, the Captain handed in his notice to P&O, and if true, good on him as IMHO they pulled a card on him with that trip.Luckily in my time on the road, there have only ever been 2 times where the conditions have been so bad I have HAD to call it a day and pull over for safety reasons. Once in Russia in the snow, and once in Kent in the worst high winds I can remember. It got so bad that I was at 20 mph on the M20, and I was just waiting to get blown over, so took shelter under a motorway bridge for 2 hours.
chilistrucker said:
paulguitar said:
I was on that ferry (Pride of Bilbao) as an entertainer back in the late ’90s. Were you on board for the hurricane? I think it was 1999.
I was on it mainly late 90's/early 00's so you would have kept me entertained, thanks Fortunately I missed the hurricane, the one I remember was when the captain had earlier warned us all of possible force 10/11 conditions. It did get naughty as you could not even walk down the aisles in a straight line and at one point the boat hit a wave that sent the band falling out onto the dance floor. One of the band members collected a passenger on his way down, she also went over with him and suffered a broken collarbone.
That hurricane you mention, was it Christmas/New Years time by any chance?
Patrick mentioned to me that particular crossing when the Captain was unhappy at taking the boat out.
Now bear with me here as this is from memory, and Patrick telling the story, not me.
Apparently the boat was sold out for the New Years eve trip, but the storm predicted was particularly naughty. When the Captain raised the issues with P&O brass, he was told the boat was designed to sail in seas up to storm force 12, and "ONLY" 11 had been predicted.
Allegedly the Captain did take the boat out, as he wanted to keep his job, (again hearsay here, no proof) but at 1 point the boat tilted over at a 41 degree angle
Apparently the point of no return was 45 degrees????? I also heard that not long after this journey, the Captain handed in his notice to P&O, and if true, good on him as IMHO they pulled a card on him with that trip.Luckily in my time on the road, there have only ever been 2 times where the conditions have been so bad I have HAD to call it a day and pull over for safety reasons. Once in Russia in the snow, and once in Kent in the worst high winds I can remember. It got so bad that I was at 20 mph on the M20, and I was just waiting to get blown over, so took shelter under a motorway bridge for 2 hours.
The hurricane, IIRC, was indeed around January time. I was fortunate enough to not be there until a few weeks after that crossing, but people were still talking about it. I do remember hearing talk that the captain has been pressured into sailing the ship, but I am not sure of too many details. I do remember hearing that a grand piano had suffered considerable damage.
I have had some pretty serious weather and incidents during my 24 years at sea. We hit the dock in Rosslare in 1997 on a ferry I was on and put a hole in the side of the ship. Did a significant list near Ketchikan, Alaska in 2002 and one of my PA speakers came crashing down, narrowly missing a barkeep’s head. The first ship I worked on back in 1996 was literally puled off the dock, snapping its lines in Dieppe, and we spent 16 hours at sea sitting in the storm. I opened my cabin door to find one of the dancers lying in the corridor wearing her life jacket, crying her eyes out.
paulguitar said:
On the ‘Billy’,I was the solo performer in the little pub type place midships. Had a lot of fun on that ship, I was young and it was one hell of a party, even though it was supposed to be ‘dry’ for the crew. As entertainers we certainly did not think that applied to us!
The hurricane, IIRC, was indeed around January time. I was fortunate enough to not be there until a few weeks after that crossing, but people were still talking about it. I do remember hearing talk that the captain has been pressured into sailing the ship, but I am not sure of too many details. I do remember hearing that a grand piano had suffered considerable damage.
I have had some pretty serious weather and incidents during my 24 years at sea. We hit the dock in Rosslare in 1997 on a ferry I was on and put a hole in the side of the ship. Did a significant list near Ketchikan, Alaska in 2002 and one of my PA speakers came crashing down, narrowly missing a barkeep’s head. The first ship I worked on back in 1996 was literally puled off the dock, snapping its lines in Dieppe, and we spent 16 hours at sea sitting in the storm. I opened my cabin door to find one of the dancers lying in the corridor wearing her life jacket, crying her eyes out.
I hope that you took pity on the dancer, helped her into your cabin, gave her a couple of generous brandies, and let her relax on your bunk.The hurricane, IIRC, was indeed around January time. I was fortunate enough to not be there until a few weeks after that crossing, but people were still talking about it. I do remember hearing talk that the captain has been pressured into sailing the ship, but I am not sure of too many details. I do remember hearing that a grand piano had suffered considerable damage.
I have had some pretty serious weather and incidents during my 24 years at sea. We hit the dock in Rosslare in 1997 on a ferry I was on and put a hole in the side of the ship. Did a significant list near Ketchikan, Alaska in 2002 and one of my PA speakers came crashing down, narrowly missing a barkeep’s head. The first ship I worked on back in 1996 was literally puled off the dock, snapping its lines in Dieppe, and we spent 16 hours at sea sitting in the storm. I opened my cabin door to find one of the dancers lying in the corridor wearing her life jacket, crying her eyes out.
Frank7 said:
paulguitar said:
On the ‘Billy’,I was the solo performer in the little pub type place midships. Had a lot of fun on that ship, I was young and it was one hell of a party, even though it was supposed to be ‘dry’ for the crew. As entertainers we certainly did not think that applied to us!
The hurricane, IIRC, was indeed around January time. I was fortunate enough to not be there until a few weeks after that crossing, but people were still talking about it. I do remember hearing talk that the captain has been pressured into sailing the ship, but I am not sure of too many details. I do remember hearing that a grand piano had suffered considerable damage.
I have had some pretty serious weather and incidents during my 24 years at sea. We hit the dock in Rosslare in 1997 on a ferry I was on and put a hole in the side of the ship. Did a significant list near Ketchikan, Alaska in 2002 and one of my PA speakers came crashing down, narrowly missing a barkeep’s head. The first ship I worked on back in 1996 was literally puled off the dock, snapping its lines in Dieppe, and we spent 16 hours at sea sitting in the storm. I opened my cabin door to find one of the dancers lying in the corridor wearing her life jacket, crying her eyes out.
I hope that you took pity on the dancer, helped her into your cabin, gave her a couple of generous brandies, and let her relax on your bunk.The hurricane, IIRC, was indeed around January time. I was fortunate enough to not be there until a few weeks after that crossing, but people were still talking about it. I do remember hearing talk that the captain has been pressured into sailing the ship, but I am not sure of too many details. I do remember hearing that a grand piano had suffered considerable damage.
I have had some pretty serious weather and incidents during my 24 years at sea. We hit the dock in Rosslare in 1997 on a ferry I was on and put a hole in the side of the ship. Did a significant list near Ketchikan, Alaska in 2002 and one of my PA speakers came crashing down, narrowly missing a barkeep’s head. The first ship I worked on back in 1996 was literally puled off the dock, snapping its lines in Dieppe, and we spent 16 hours at sea sitting in the storm. I opened my cabin door to find one of the dancers lying in the corridor wearing her life jacket, crying her eyes out.
Dry ship you say....
That's how I hit it off with Patrick. He told me the crack and so we struck up a deal, over the course of the crossing I would nip to the duty free shop for some beverages as I had been passed the correct paperwork. I'd then leave the 'shopping' in my cabin for Patrick, or friend to collect later.
The favour would then be returned that night in the Galaxy lounge bar, in what we lovingly called, Truck Driver corner
As freight passengers we did ok, we all had our own cabins, use of all facilities and our own freight drivers restaurant, the staff there really looked after us.
Good times.
chilistrucker said:
I think Frank was also a truck driver back in the day on the Bilbao
Dry ship you say....
That's how I hit it off with Patrick. He told me the crack and so we struck up a deal, over the course of the crossing I would nip to the duty free shop for some beverages as I had been passed the correct paperwork. I'd then leave the 'shopping' in my cabin for Patrick, or friend to collect later.
The favour would then be returned that night in the Galaxy lounge bar, in what we lovingly called, Truck Driver corner
As freight passengers we did ok, we all had our own cabins, use of all facilities and our own freight drivers restaurant, the staff there really looked after us.
Good times.
After my gig, I used to operate the spotlight in the Galaxy Lounge. Same old shows, over and over, that’s where I leant to really hate musical theatre! As crew, organizing our drinking was actually really fun, looking back on it, sort of like how it used to be to smoke at school, just a big adventure. Lugging endless crates of beer through corridors, getting bin bags full of ice to chill them, and then later doing a run to the skips with the empties across the car decks. Dry ship you say....
That's how I hit it off with Patrick. He told me the crack and so we struck up a deal, over the course of the crossing I would nip to the duty free shop for some beverages as I had been passed the correct paperwork. I'd then leave the 'shopping' in my cabin for Patrick, or friend to collect later.
The favour would then be returned that night in the Galaxy lounge bar, in what we lovingly called, Truck Driver corner
As freight passengers we did ok, we all had our own cabins, use of all facilities and our own freight drivers restaurant, the staff there really looked after us.
Good times.
paulguitar said:
Frank7 said:
I hope that you took pity on the dancer, helped her into your cabin, gave her a couple of generous brandies, and let her relax on your bunk.
You are a card, Frank. 
Most of mine were Dover to Zeebrugge, or Oostende, or Calais, Felixstowe to Hoek Van Holland etc., but my abiding memories of illicit couplings were on the Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire route, but those were all before I turned thirty.
I’m a good boy now, even if the chance appeared I’m too old to take advantage.
texaxile said:
The worst thing about turbulence is the smell of vomit drifting up from the rear of the aircraft.
I remember a flight a few years ago. My (now) ex- was sitting in an aisle seat, and a passenger was heading briskly to the lavatory but didn't make it and threw up over the floor next to her seat. The stewardess took out a blanket from the overhead to cover the vomit on the floor, then the next stewardess came along, picked up the sodden blanket and put it on ex-'s lap. Happy days Mr E said:
I recorded this during takeoff from Manchester a while back:https://youtu.be/YArRjVpSYcA
Mainly to show my dad how much they move
paulguitar said:
w1bbles said:
I’ve commuted weekly by plane for 20 years and I’m still a rubbish flyer. I’ve only had a handful of incidents but the worst involved a 747 hitting some kind of storm system and dropping a long way quite quickly. Everyone not wearing their seatbelt was on the ceiling for a couple of seconds and 11 people were subsequently hospitalised when we stopped dropping, some with broken limbs. Emergency landing (to get people into ambulances) was dialled up. The 747 was then subject to an airframe inspection so the next flight for it was delayed by a day. I can confirm I screamed like a girl when The Drop happened. Fortunately I can also confirm that my scream was drowned out by everyone else’s. Now that’s turbulence!
It's precisely this kind of story that prevents me being able to relax!I have had 2 similar experiences, the first was between Hong Kong and Manila; Australian pilot announced, with bravado, that we were about to encounter severe turbulence.... about 2 mins later we fell out of the sky for what felt like forever. I usually fly with seatbelt done up, and was very glad I did. Lots of stuff and people went up. I had to catch my gin & tonic as it rose in front of my face, then keep it in the cup with my other hand.
2nd was between Delhi and Dubai, still over India. A massive storm which we went right through the middle of. Very violent side-side and up-down movement in very dark clouds. As we came out the other side suddenly the aircraft instantly resumed normal flight, and the low sun came streaming in orange beams through the windows. Tranquility. I swear the lady next to me thought we had made it to heaven.
I thought I would get over the fear by learning to fly, so got myself on a paramotor course. All was great until they actually made me fly, and I realised that the thermals coming off the desert of Dubai while suspended under a tissue by some bits of string was worse than any you will encounter in a big tin bird.
marksx said:
Mr E said:
I recorded this during takeoff from Manchester a while back:https://youtu.be/YArRjVpSYcA
Mainly to show my dad how much they move
https://youtu.be/meEG7VwjTew
Never really bothered me, but did annoy rather than scare.
I travel alot now, so even the annoyance has gone and in a weird way it helps me sleep.
I put this all down to one terrible flight from KL to HCM. I was traveling with a friend and we both commented just how bad the turbulence was. Even the crew were quite shocked about it.
Anything following this flight was a walk in the park.
I've found the following.
Bigger aircraft appear better.
Sitting at the front is generally better than towards the back.
Trust in Engineering.
Realize that a bus trip probably generates more turbulence motion than a plane does!
Have a few alcohol drinks!
I read somewhere that the A380 actually counters turbulence. Sensors detect and then compensate for lumps and bumps. Could be BS, but I definitely read it somewhere.
I travel alot now, so even the annoyance has gone and in a weird way it helps me sleep.
I put this all down to one terrible flight from KL to HCM. I was traveling with a friend and we both commented just how bad the turbulence was. Even the crew were quite shocked about it.
Anything following this flight was a walk in the park.
I've found the following.
Bigger aircraft appear better.
Sitting at the front is generally better than towards the back.
Trust in Engineering.
Realize that a bus trip probably generates more turbulence motion than a plane does!
Have a few alcohol drinks!
I read somewhere that the A380 actually counters turbulence. Sensors detect and then compensate for lumps and bumps. Could be BS, but I definitely read it somewhere.
oilydan said:
I also fly quite a bit, in and around the Middle East.
I have had 2 similar experiences, the first was between Hong Kong and Manila; Australian pilot announced, with bravado, that we were about to encounter severe turbulence.... about 2 mins later we fell out of the sky for what felt like forever. I usually fly with seatbelt done up, and was very glad I did. Lots of stuff and people went up. I had to catch my gin & tonic as it rose in front of my face, then keep it in the cup with my other hand.
2nd was between Delhi and Dubai, still over India. A massive storm which we went right through the middle of. Very violent side-side and up-down movement in very dark clouds. As we came out the other side suddenly the aircraft instantly resumed normal flight, and the low sun came streaming in orange beams through the windows. Tranquility. I swear the lady next to me thought we had made it to heaven.
I thought I would get over the fear by learning to fly, so got myself on a paramotor course. All was great until they actually made me fly, and I realised that the thermals coming off the desert of Dubai while suspended under a tissue by some bits of string was worse than any you will encounter in a big tin bird.
Our incident made the front page of the South China Morning Press. Must see if I have a copy.I have had 2 similar experiences, the first was between Hong Kong and Manila; Australian pilot announced, with bravado, that we were about to encounter severe turbulence.... about 2 mins later we fell out of the sky for what felt like forever. I usually fly with seatbelt done up, and was very glad I did. Lots of stuff and people went up. I had to catch my gin & tonic as it rose in front of my face, then keep it in the cup with my other hand.
2nd was between Delhi and Dubai, still over India. A massive storm which we went right through the middle of. Very violent side-side and up-down movement in very dark clouds. As we came out the other side suddenly the aircraft instantly resumed normal flight, and the low sun came streaming in orange beams through the windows. Tranquility. I swear the lady next to me thought we had made it to heaven.
I thought I would get over the fear by learning to fly, so got myself on a paramotor course. All was great until they actually made me fly, and I realised that the thermals coming off the desert of Dubai while suspended under a tissue by some bits of string was worse than any you will encounter in a big tin bird.
MTK1919 said:
I read somewhere that the A380 actually counters turbulence. Sensors detect and then compensate for lumps and bumps. Could be BS, but I definitely read it somewhere.
The B787 does this.There’s a gap between changes in pressure and the turbulence so the aircraft has loads of sensors that then send a response to the control surfaces to reduce the effect of the turbulence. It only works in vertical changes though so you obviously still get turbulence but apparently it’s less.
El stovey said:
I’ve spoken to a lot of nervous passengers and their fears vary from a general worry that ‘something bad’ might happen to specific worries about things like the engines stopping or fire or if the wings break. You often get asked “what if all the engines stop” or “what if the wings break” etc then you can actually talk about what would happen or about how the aircraft is made and why those worries aren’t perhaps that realistic.
In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
I fly regularly (flying tomorrow to America) and I hate turbulence. I’m usually flying alone and am just, well, scared I guess for no discernible reason. I quoted the very helpful post above as what does settle me a little bit is the Captain coming on saying “it’ll be a bit bumpy for a few minutes, don’t worry” or similar.In the good old days, nervous passengers could come up to the flight deck during the flight and check it out and have a chat, it seemed to make them feel happier. You can still do this before take off if you board early and ask a crew member. I’ve often gone out to speak to people who are nervous or had them into the flightdeck before take off. I see it as an important part of my job to make people enjoy the flight as much as possible. Some airlines run good fear of flying courses if it’s something that really affects you.
Passengers being concerned by turbulence is very common though. I think it’s sometimes the feeling that something sudden might happen and you can’t see it coming and you don’t know how intense it might be almost like a rollercoaster in the dark or knowing someone’s about to shout “boo” but not when. I’ve been in very bad turbulence and the aircraft has been absolutely fine. The worry for us is all about the passengers and crew (and their drinks trolleys etc) not being secure In their seats and not the wings or anything breaking. On my list of things that might go wrong, turbulence is very low down. We are concerned about it for passenger and crew comfort but not regarding the safety of the actual aircraft.
It’s very rare indeed to hit strong unexpected turbulence though with all the accurate information we have and weather radar and reports from other aircraft.
Before the flight we get paperwork in some form with various information on it including turbulence predictions. This is based on the changes in wind speed at different heights. So we pass any stronger turbulence predictions onto the cabin crew so they can make decisions about when they’re going to do certain things or services. Flight plans are also filed to avoid areas of bad weather.
After take off we avoid the worst weather using our eyes and weather radar, we simply look out the window and look at our weather radar and tell air traffic control we need to turn left or right to avoid a thunderstorm etc. We might even climb up above some weather to a less fuel efficient flight level. Also during the flight we get ‘ride reports’ from other aircraft and air traffic control telling us about turbulence in our area and ahead on our route.
If we got reports of stronger turbulence, then again I’d inform the crew if it looked like it was going to be uncomfortable and make sure they had everything stowed away and we’d obviously put the seatbelt signs on and make a ‘reassuring announcement’
Although recently I heard my young first officer make a long ‘reassuring’ announcement during turbulence to our passengers telling them how the wings were tested to destruction by bending them up till they broke and at what angle they had to withstand etc. I wasn’t that sure it was making them reassured, we had a discussion afterwards about whether people like to hear the words “wings breaking” during an announcement from the pilots regardless of the context but there you go.
If anyone has any specific questions or worries feel free to post them or PM me but I hope this kind of background information helps.
El stovey said:
The B787 does this.
There’s a gap between changes in pressure and the turbulence so the aircraft has loads of sensors that then send a response to the control surfaces to reduce the effect of the turbulence. It only works in vertical changes though so you obviously still get turbulence but apparently it’s less.
Very informative posts. Assuming you are a 787 pilot. Who do you fly for? Only asking as my other half is cabin crew.There’s a gap between changes in pressure and the turbulence so the aircraft has loads of sensors that then send a response to the control surfaces to reduce the effect of the turbulence. It only works in vertical changes though so you obviously still get turbulence but apparently it’s less.
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